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Author Topic: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically  (Read 1072 times)

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Offline happenby

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Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
« on: January 09, 2018, 10:48:27 AM »
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    • Anathema against the notion of a spherical earth?

    The Canons of the Synod of Constantinople (543 AD)

    Canon 5. If anyone says or holds that at the resurrection the bodies of human beings will be raised spherical and does not profess that we shall be raised upright, let him be anathema.
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 11:04:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on January 09, 2018, 10:55:45 AM
    If you are seriously asking this question, then I suggest you read more of the Fathers and not just what flat Earth websites post about them.
    This quote is not from a flat earth Website, it is a canon of the Catholic Church.  The Fathers of the Church have been my constant companions for decades.  I continue to study them almost daily.  I can't make out another reason for this canon other than it suggests a condemnation of the heliocentric spherical notion of earth.  Hence the question mark. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 11:27:38 AM »
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    • So what does "raised spherical" mean?  That doesn't even make sense.  Please provide the original language text.
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 11:43:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 09, 2018, 11:27:38 AM
    So what does "raised spherical" mean?  That doesn't even make sense.  Please provide the original language text.
    I do not know what "raised spherical" exactly means, except that it is countered by "raised upright".  I do not have the original Latin and hoped someone here could provide it for further understanding. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #4 on: January 09, 2018, 11:55:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: happenby on January 09, 2018, 11:43:52 AM
    I do not know what "raised spherical" exactly means, except that it is countered by "raised upright".  I do not have the original Latin and hoped someone here could provide it for further understanding.

    I did a quick search but couldn't find anything.  Where did you find this translation?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 11:59:51 AM »
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    • I found this from Theophilus of Alexandria against the errors of Origen.  And we know that this Synod of Constantinople set out to condemn the errors of Origin.

    He says that Origenists held that the SHAPE of the body when raised from the dead would be spherical (because it's the ideal shape or something).  So this doesn't have anything to do with Flat Earth.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=93mCAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA142&lpg=PA142&dq=raised+spherically+from+the+dead&source=bl&ots=jVWFpD7LPO&sig=2VJEaDbpB13mLZjXe7pot8CAEJI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj45OSNucvYAhVB5IMKHX7WCKwQ6AEINzAF#v=onepage&q=raised%20spherically%20from%20the%20dead&f=false
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 12:04:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 09, 2018, 11:55:21 AM
    I did a quick search but couldn't find anything.  Where did you find this translation?
    I hunted for the quote online because I'd seen it in a Catholic theology book at my mom's house several years ago. I found it here: https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/the-canons-of-the-synod-of-constantinople-543/    
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 12:10:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 09, 2018, 11:59:51 AM
    I found this from Theophilus of Alexandria against the errors of Origen.  And we know that this Synod of Constantinople set out to condemn the errors of Origin.

    He says that Origenists held that the SHAPE of the body when raised from the dead would be spherical (because it's the ideal shape or something).  So this doesn't have anything to do with Flat Earth.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=93mCAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA142&lpg=PA142&dq=raised+spherically+from+the+dead&source=bl&ots=jVWFpD7LPO&sig=2VJEaDbpB13mLZjXe7pot8CAEJI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj45OSNucvYAhVB5IMKHX7WCKwQ6AEINzAF#v=onepage&q=raised%20spherically%20from%20the%20dead&f=false
    Excellent find.  Makes sense, except one thing: "raised spherical" as opposed to "raised upright".  So, I'm swayed, but not entirely convinced.  I'll keep looking, but the cloudiness surrounding the Councils of Constantinople, the politics of the time, and the problems with Origen make it almost impossible to get clarity.   :-[
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    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 02:35:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 09, 2018, 11:59:51 AM
    I found this from Theophilus of Alexandria against the errors of Origen.  And we know that this Synod of Constantinople set out to condemn the errors of Origin.

    He says that Origenists held that the SHAPE of the body when raised from the dead would be spherical (because it's the ideal shape or something).  
    This is Fr. Pfeiffer's error in his video: he thinks a sphere is the perfect shape, but that is the error of Pythagoras,  as I recall. Which would make it an esoteric belief. 
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    Offline WholeFoodsTrad

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #9 on: January 09, 2018, 05:57:40 PM »
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    • The Sun's Almost Perfectly Round Shape Baffles Scientists

    "The sun is nearly the roundest object ever measured. If scaled to the size of a beach ball, it would be so round that the difference between the widest and narrow diameters would be much less than the width of a human hair."

    http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/info/press-releases/RoundSun/





    https://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #10 on: January 09, 2018, 08:11:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: happenby on January 09, 2018, 12:10:49 PM
    Excellent find.  Makes sense, except one thing: "raised spherical" as opposed to "raised upright".  So, I'm swayed, but not entirely convinced.  I'll keep looking, but the cloudiness surrounding the Councils of Constantinople, the politics of the time, and the problems with Origen make it almost impossible to get clarity.   :-[

    I'm guessing that the term "upright" here means something like "standing upright".
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 08:46:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 09, 2018, 08:11:19 PM
    I'm guessing that the term "upright" here means something like "standing upright".
    Yea, it seems.  In other words, the body doesn't suddenly morph into a spherical shape, but just ascends upright, in the form of the person ascending.  Kind of amazing that was such an issue that they had to drop a canon on it. :incense:
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 08:48:29 PM »
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    • Quote from: Smedley Butler on January 09, 2018, 02:35:12 PM
    This is Fr. Pfeiffer's error in his video: he thinks a sphere is the perfect shape, but that is the error of Pythagoras,  as I recall. Which would make it an esoteric belief.
    Yea, it is an idea ascribed to pagans, (also seen in the explanation about rising spherical) but Fr. Pfeiffer uses it all the time to explain why earth is a ball. 
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    Offline WholeFoodsTrad

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 03:38:22 PM »
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    • I wonder if that has any connection to Sun Worshipping.  
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    "Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night
    may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Canon of the Synod of Constantinople (543) Souls Raised Upright Not Spherically
    « Reply #14 on: January 10, 2018, 03:47:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: WholeFoodsTrad on January 10, 2018, 03:38:22 PM
    I wonder if that has any connection to Sun Worshipping.  
    Yea, I wish I could get more information but this Council in particular, every one says is hard to come by.
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