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Author Topic: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God  (Read 7369 times)

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Offline Marion

Re: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2022, 09:50:34 PM »
CI has mostly recovered from too many naive Trump- and Q-Fans.

But CI has done and finished since the FE-pest broke out.
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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2022, 09:30:46 AM »
Quote from: Incredulous on April 16, 2022, 10:32:34 PM
Yeah, I sort of doubt Maria of Agreda....


She's only been in-corrupt for 420 years.  :popcorn:


Link
I've had a devotion to her for years now. Her works, per the Church, are worthy of belief and LT has done a good job supporting that end, as the Church has had no problem praising the Mystical City of God and affirming its orthodoxy. As for her support of GE: whatever. It doesn't prove anything when you have people like JTolanMedia providing infrared footage of locations hundreds of miles beyond where the supposed "curve" should be.

If you want to know more about Ven. Maria's life, read Maria of Agreda by Marilyn Fedewa. She was a very holy woman who performed a lot of incredible miracles.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2022, 09:45:32 AM »
Quote from: Incredulous on April 16, 2022, 10:32:34 PM
Yeah, I sort of doubt Maria of Agreda....

All agreed with her personal sanctity (although her state of incorruption is debated).  Issue was with her works and why, despite her sanctity, the Church never so much as beatified her.

Not only is there a question of whether or not her work were tampered with (as they were released only 5 years after her death after they had been in the hands of some Franciscans who may have tampered with the text to promote Scotism ... over Thomism ... with regard to a number of disputed questions) but there are stylistic inconsistencies that suggest tampering.  [Same thing, BTW, with Anne Catherine Emmerick, that Brentano's work may have had significant embellishments.]

Then, even in the visions of holy mystics, there are issues with the mystic's interpretation of things that they say, and in the passage quoted above, she prefaces a lot of it with "I say".

There are contradictions between Mary of Agreda and Anne Catherine Emmerich on quite a few details, and the Church has not beatified (much less canonized) either one of them, if you don't count JP2's beatification of Mary of Ageda (which I don't), despite both of their personal holiness being widely acknowledged.  Church does not want to give the impression that their visions are inspired work and cause confusion about their relationship with Sacred Scripture.  As I said, there are some contradictions between the two, and that might cause a lot of scandal regarding the Church's implicit endorsement of them.

In fact, one of the criticisms from the faculty that first examined and rejected her works was her description (somewhere else than the passage cited) of the earth as being shaped like an egg that's flattened at the edges (the poles) ... which actually contradicts the passage cited by OP.
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Offline Zealot

Re: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2022, 05:43:06 AM »
77. "Take notice also, my spouse, that very often I permit and cause differences of opinions among the doctors and teachers. Thus some of them maintain what is true and others, according to their natural disposition, defend what is doubtful. Others still again are permitted to say even what is not true, though not in open contradiction to the veiled truths of faith, which all must hold. Some also teach, what is possible according to their supposition. By this varied light, truth is traced, and the mysteries of faith become more manifest. Doubt serves as a stimulus to the understanding for the investigation of truth. Therefore controversies of the teachers fulfill a proper and holy end. They are also permitted in order, to make it known, that real science dwells in my Church more than in the combined study of all the holy and perfect teachers, and that she can make them wise above the wisdom of the worldly wise; that there is above them One, who is the Prompter of the wise (Wis. 7, 15), namely, Myself; who alone knows all and comprehends all ; who weighs and measures, without ever being measured or comprehended (Wis. 9, 13) ; that men, although they may search my judgments and testimonies ever so much, cannot attain them, unless I give the intelligence and light (Job 32, 8), who am the beginning and the Author of all wisdom and science. I desire that men, in acknowledging all this, give Me praise, exaltation, confession, supremity and glory forever."
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Offline Tradman

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Re: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2022, 11:18:16 AM »
There are many reasons to read Agreda, but saints are provided views of things that may appear different than intended. 

Mystical City of God by Mary of Agreda was condemned by a pope for these reasons.

1. It violated the decree of Pope Urban VIII (March 13, 1625)
2. It narrated apocryphal stories.
3. It presented opinions of the Duns Scotus theological school as divine revelation.
4. Mary of Agreda pictured the earth in the form of an egg, i.e. that the earth has a spherical shape.
5. It exaggerated the cult of Our Lady to the extent of obscuring the great Mystery of the Incarnation.

152 Masters of the Barbonne discussed the Mystical City on thirty-two sessions, July 2-14, 1696.  
102 of the 152 Masters voted against the book.
At all events, Blessed Innocent signed the condemnation on June 26, 1681.




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