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Author Topic: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God  (Read 7392 times)

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BOD & FE - Mystical City of God
« on: April 16, 2022, 02:41:12 PM »

Maybe this has already been covered in another thread, but today in reading from the Mystical City of God and Holy Saturday, Ven. Mary of Agreda discusses the shape of the world.  She also goes on to describe Limbo - and the part reserved for unbaptized children still "tainted with Original Sin."  Thought these were useful to share.

A Blessed Easter to everyone. 



The Mystical City of God – by Ven. Mary of Agreda

From Book Six Chap. 25

748. These were the occupations of the heavenly Queen during a part of the sabbath. At the approach of evening She again retired, leaving the Apostles now renewed in spirit and full of consolation and joy in the Lord, yet also full of grief for the Passion of their Master. In her retirement during this evening the great Lady contemplated the doings of the most holy soul of her Son after it left the sacred body. For from the first the blessed Mother knew that the soul of Christ, united to the Divinity, descended to limbo in order to release the holy Fathers from the subterranean prison, where they had been detained since the death of the first just man that had died in expectance of the advent of the Redeemer of the whole human race. In order to speak about this mystery, which is one of the articles of faith pertaining to the most sacred humanity of Christ our Lord, it seemed best to mention that which has been given me to understand about this limbo and its situation. I say then, that the diameter of the earth's sphere, passing through the centre from one surface to the other, measures two thousand, five hundred and two leagues; and from the surface to the centre, one thousand, two hundred and fifty-one leagues; and according to the diameter is to be calculated the circuмference of this globe. In the centre is the hell of the damned, as in the heart of the earth. This hell is a chaotic cavern, which contains many darksome dwellings for diverse punishments, all of them dreadful and terrible. All of these together form a vast globe like a huge round jar, with an opening or mouth of vast expansion. In this horrible dungeon filled with con fusion and torments were the demons and all the damned, and shall be there for all eternity, as long as God is God; for in hell there is no redemption (Matth. 25, 41).

749. To one side of hell is purgatory, where the souls of the just are purged and where they cleanse themselves, if they have not satisfied for their faults in this life, or have not departed from this earthly life entirely free from the defects incapacitating them for the beatific vision. This cavern is also large, but not so large as hell; and though there are severe punishments in purgatory, they have no connection with those of hell. To the other side is limbo with two different divisions : The one for the children, who die unbaptized and tainted only with original sin, without either good or bad works of their own election. The other served as a retreat for the just, who had already satisfied for their sins; for they could not enter heaven, nor enjoy the vision of God until the Redemption of man was accomplished and until Christ our Savior should open the gates of heaven closed by the sin of Adam (Ps. 23, 9). This cavern is likewise smaller than hell, and has no connection with it, nor are there in it the pains of the senses like in purgatory. For it was destined for the souls already cleansed in purgatory and implied only the absence of beatific vision or pain of privation; there also stayed all those who died in the state of grace until the death of the Redeemer. This is the place to which Christ s soul descended with the Divinity and which we refer to in saying that He descended into hell. For the word “hell” may be used to signify any of the infernal regions in the depths of the earth, though commonly we apply it only to the hell of the demons and the damned. This is the most notable meaning of this word, just as “heaven” ordinarily signifies the empyrean, the habitation of the saints, where they are to dwell forever, while the damned remain forever in hell. The other parts of hell have also the more particular names of purgatory and limbo. After the final judgment heaven and hell only are to be inhabited, since purgatory shall become unnecessary and since even the infants shall be transported to another dwellingplace.
750. To this cavern of limbo then the most holy soul of Christ our Lord betook itself in the company of innumerable angels, who gave glory, fortitude and Divinity to their victorious and triumphant King. In accordance with his greatness and majesty they commanded the portals of this ancient prison to be opened, in order that the King of glory, powerful in battles and Lord of virtues, might find them unlocked and open at his entrance. At their command some of the rocks of the passage were rent and shattered; although this was not really necessary, since the King and his army were immaterial spirits. By the presence of the most holy Soul this obscure cavern was converted into a heaven and was filled with a wonderful splendor; and to the souls therein contained was imparted the clear vision of the Divinity. In one instant they passed from the state of long-deferred hope to the possession of glory, and from darkness to the inaccessible light, which they now began to enjoy. All of them recognized their true God and Redeemer, and gave him thanks and glory, breaking forth in canticles of praise saying: “The Lamb that was slain is worthy to receive power and Divinity, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory and benediction. Thou hast redeemed us, Lord, in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us to our God a kingdom and priests, and we shall reign on the earth (Apoc. 59, 12). Thine is, O Lord, the power, thine the reign, and thine is the glory of thy works.” Then the Lord commanded the angels to bring all the souls in purgatory, and this was immediately done. As if in earnest of the human Redemption they were absolved then and there by the Redeemer from the punishments still due to them, and they were glorified with the other souls of the just by the beatific vision. Thus on that day of the presence of the King were depopulated the prisonhouses of both limbo and purgatory.

751. But for the damned in hell this was a terrible day; because by the disposition of the Most High all of them were made to see and feel the descent of the Redeemer into limbo, and also the holy Fathers and the just were made witnesses of the terror caused by this mystery to the demons and the damned. The demons were yet terrorized and oppressed by the ruin which they had undergone on Mount Calvary, as related above ; and when they heard (according to their manner of hearing and speaking) the voices of the angels advancing before their King to limbo, they were confounded and terrified anew. Like serpents pursued, they hid themselves and clung to the most remote caverns of hell. The damned were seized with confusion upon confusion, becoming still more deeply conscious of their aberration and of the loss of salvation, now secured to the just. As Judas and the impenitent thief had so recently and signally shared this misfortune, so their torments were greater; and the demons were the more highly incensed against them. Then and there the infernal spirits resolved to persecute and torment more grievously the Catholics, and chastise more severely those who should deny or repudiate the Catholic faith. For they concluded that these merited greater punishment than the infidels, to whom it is not preached.
 



Re: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2022, 04:32:29 PM »
Clearly not inspired, diameter too short. Her work has been controversial, anyway.

FE proponents should go and watch the sun go down from a beach, and turn on their brains.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2022, 04:47:56 PM »
FE proponents should go and watch the sun go down from a beach, and turn on their brains.

GE proponents should go watch a sunset in a desert, where, due to the dryer air, it shrinks in size until it's out of sight, and they need to turn off the (programmed part of) their brains.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2022, 04:50:10 PM »
Clearly not inspired, diameter too short. Her work has been controversial, anyway.

Only Sacred Scripture is inspired.  As with a lot of these "visions," there's an admixture of maybe real things and then interpretation through the eyes of the visionary.  In this particular passage, she prefixes "I say" to the statement, and does not attribute it to Our Lord or Our Lady.  I believe that issues with her visions are one reason the Church has hesitated to canonize or even beatify her (as she's only a "Venerable"), or Anne Catherine Emmerich (who was only "beatified" by JP2).  There were some contradictions between her account and those of Mary of Agreda.  So who really knows?

Both their works are edifying to read, but then women tend to have active imaginations, and these types of things are always produced by women, never men.  St. Theresa of Avila, when told that this or that nun was having visions, ordered that she be given more meat in her diet.  Many, many details about the life of Our Lord and Our Lady were left out of the Sacred Scriptures, and I find it a bit implausible that God would dictate dozens of volumes of detail to visionaries when the Holy Spirit didn't see fit to inspire that they be written in the first place.

Offline Yeti

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Re: BOD & FE - Mystical City of God
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2022, 05:03:43 PM »
GE proponents should go watch a sunset in a desert, where, due to the dryer air, it shrinks in size until it's out of sight, and they need to turn off the (programmed part of) their brains.
Have you seen this with your own eyes in real life, or just on YouTube? Part of the problem in these discussions is that observations of the heavens are made by watching YouTube, not by observing the heavens.

The other problem is that light is presumed to move in a straight line over long distances. I spent a lot of time following the earth-shape debates here that took place about a couple of months ago, trying to see if there was any merit to the flat earth position. From what I could discern, they only have one solid argument, which is that objects are able to be seen farther away than they should be able to if the earth were a sphere. Now, this is an intriguing fact, but it just doesn't prove anything since it would only be dispositive if light certainly moved in a straight line indefinitely, or at least for long distances on the earth's surface, and that is provably false. Therefore it doesn't prove anything to say that you can see farther away than you should be able to.

That, and the flat earthers are strikingly helpless to explain even the most basic features of their theory, such as what keeps the sun and moon above the earth, how satellites stay up, why objects are drawn towards the earth, how the sun can move in a circle, why people can't see the sun when it's night time, what casts the shadow on the moon when it waxes or wanes, why the distances between places are correct on a globe and not on the flat earth map, what Antarctica is, or any one of dozens of obvious problems with their theory for which they cannot even attempt an answer.

Sorry, flatties, I gave you a fair hearing with an open mind, and that's my assessment of the whole thing, right there.