Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Balloon footage - it's flat  (Read 16429 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 3102
  • Reputation: +1736/-964
  • Gender: Female
Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2025, 04:48:23 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Ok, what about 'perspective' do you think proves the globe? Sorry but no rando personal beliefs will do. If you're going to use science or math, it really has to hold up on its own. Science and math work with the description provided in Scripture and the form of the Earth described isn't a globe. Saints also support the flat earth along with the Fathers of the Church because Scripture is the basis of their teachings.  If you think you're going to fly some theory in contradiction with Scripture, history, the Fathers of the Church, saints, etc. because you favor a modern view of a pagan globe, you have the greater burden of proof. The Pythagorean doctrine and Copernican globe theory were consistently condemned by the Church multiple times. If you don't realize this, or accept the Cecco/Bruno/Galileo condemnations by the authorities of the Catholic church, as well as the definitive statements by the popes condemning heliocentrism/Copernicanism/Pythagorean Doctrine, please provide proof to show that these saints and popes were wrong.
    What I don't understand is if all this was condemned by the Catholic Church, then why did they teach a globe earth in their parochial schools? 
     
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Tradman

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1355
    • Reputation: +863/-287
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #31 on: March 04, 2025, 05:25:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What I don't understand is if all this was condemned by the Catholic Church, then why did they teach a globe earth in their parochial schools? 
     

    Great response. I don't have a unargumentative answer. But I do have a question I think will addresses the problem. Why does the Church allow the modernist bishops to blather nonsense? My suggestion is that the Church is slow to respond to all the trash flung at Her. I believe the Church and Our Lord expect the faithful to reflect on the situation and make a stand to defend what the Church already declared, especially against pagan or heretical teachings. Some pope or bishop or cardinal will come forward to clarify, but we have the information, and apparently, we have to wait until they do.   


    Offline Predestination2

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 695
    • Reputation: +141/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #32 on: March 04, 2025, 07:21:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Great response. I don't have a unargumentative answer. But I do have a question I think will addresses the problem. Why does the Church allow the modernist bishops to blather nonsense? My suggestion is that the Church is slow to respond to all the trash flung at Her. I believe the Church and Our Lord expect the faithful to reflect on the situation and make a stand to defend what the Church already declared, especially against pagan or heretical teachings. Some pope or bishop or cardinal will come forward to clarify, but we have the information, and apparently, we have to wait until they do. 

    we dont have a pope or cardinals to come forward :fryingpan:

    Offline Ubi Caritas

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 17
    • Reputation: +16/-2
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #33 on: March 04, 2025, 07:28:50 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Hello, long time lurker. 

    I love watching the sky and couldn't help myself but to suggest something for those interested. This March 13-14 will be a full moon with a complete lunar eclipse. 

    There are no third parties here - everyone, if so inclined, can wake up and look up at the moon and observe with their own two eyes what is to be seen. It is a predicted that the eclipse will take over an hour for the shadow of the earth to pass over the lunar surface - a chance for an old-fashioned scientific observation as to the shape of the shadow and how it moves. 

    At least wake the children to see it! Very cool!




    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12611
    • Reputation: +8031/-2491
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #34 on: March 04, 2025, 10:12:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    What I don't understand is if all this was condemned by the Catholic Church, then why did they teach a globe earth in their parochial schools? 
    The simple answer is, there are many varieties of globe earth theories.  Those theories proposed by Copernicus and Galileo were heretical and condemned, not because they were globe per se, but because their theories violated Scripture and previous Church decisions on the matter.


    Yes, the Church is often very slow to decide in matters of science.  Because Her goal is to save souls, not teach science. 

    Case in point:  The evolution proposed by Charles Darwin was condemned in the late 1800s.  But in the early 1900s, the Church allowed discussion on "theistic evolution" (i.e. a very SPECIFIC variation on evolution where God was the author and which lined up with Scripture/Church Fathers.)  Such a theory was not "approved" but only allowed for discussion, debate and scientific work.

    In the same way, the Copernican/Galilean/Greek models of the universe are condemned.  But the Church has not condemned GLOBEISM altogether (as She is not in the business of being a science teacher).  So the globe theory (as long as it does not contradict Scripture/Church Fathers/Tradition) is ALLOWED TO BE TAUGHT, though that doesn't mean:

    a.  The Church approves of it
    b.  endorses it
    c.  agrees with it.

    It simply means that the Church realizes that it's a THEORY, which does NOT POSE RELIGIOUS/SCRIPTURAL contradictions and does NOT POSE DANGERS TO THE FAITH or salvation.

    It's much like an "imprimatur" at the beginning of a book.  Most people (wrongly) assume this means that the Church endorses/approves of the book.  No, it only means the Church DOESN'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG with the book.  It's not an endorsement, but only a NEUTRAL APPROVAL.  A big difference.


    Offline St Giles

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1574
    • Reputation: +819/-193
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #35 on: March 04, 2025, 11:41:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Where is the science of spherical earth, globe promoters? Where is the math that proves the Earth has curvature commensurate with a 25,000 mile globe?

    What value is math unless it is the standard of truth? But I would argue that math is a tool used to represent and further estimate truth that already is. You first find the math that conforms to the part of reality in question, then use it to scale things or simulate reality or to estimate a likely, but unknown part of reality. It is possible to use math to prove "realities" that don't really exist. There was a Greek philosopher who thought nothing really moves because it would, according to math, have to cross an infinite number of fractions of distance. Quite probably in reality there is a limit to how small distances can get, so things don't have to pass infinity to move a finite amount.

    Putting math aside, and regardless of the circuмference of the globe in miles, observing the effects of the sun from various locations on earth should be sufficient to demonstrate the shape of the earth. It is a sort of blindness not to understand that. Give it time though, and with humility pray on it, as it can take time for things to click and make sense differently than you used to believe.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12611
    • Reputation: +8031/-2491
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #36 on: March 05, 2025, 08:19:52 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    Putting math aside, and regardless of the circuмference of the globe in miles, observing the effects of the sun from various locations on earth should be sufficient to demonstrate the shape of the earth.
    Are you saying you reject NASA's globe-earth theory/facts (which have been disproven), in favor of some other globe-theory?  That would be a good first step.

    Offline Gray2023

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 3102
    • Reputation: +1736/-964
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #37 on: March 05, 2025, 11:14:32 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The simple answer is, there are many varieties of globe earth theories.  Those theories proposed by Copernicus and Galileo were heretical and condemned, not because they were globe per se, but because their theories violated Scripture and previous Church decisions on the matter.


    Yes, the Church is often very slow to decide in matters of science.  Because Her goal is to save souls, not teach science. 

    Case in point:  The evolution proposed by Charles Darwin was condemned in the late 1800s.  But in the early 1900s, the Church allowed discussion on "theistic evolution" (i.e. a very SPECIFIC variation on evolution where God was the author and which lined up with Scripture/Church Fathers.)  Such a theory was not "approved" but only allowed for discussion, debate and scientific work.

    In the same way, the Copernican/Galilean/Greek models of the universe are condemned.  But the Church has not condemned GLOBEISM altogether (as She is not in the business of being a science teacher).  So the globe theory (as long as it does not contradict Scripture/Church Fathers/Tradition) is ALLOWED TO BE TAUGHT, though that doesn't mean:

    a.  The Church approves of it
    b.  endorses it
    c.  agrees with it.

    It simply means that the Church realizes that it's a THEORY, which does NOT POSE RELIGIOUS/SCRIPTURAL contradictions and does NOT POSE DANGERS TO THE FAITH or salvation.

    It's much like an "imprimatur" at the beginning of a book.  Most people (wrongly) assume this means that the Church endorses/approves of the book.  No, it only means the Church DOESN'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG with the book.  It's not an endorsement, but only a NEUTRAL APPROVAL.  A big difference.
    Well said.  Do you think the Church will ever define the shape of the earth?
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Offline Tradman

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1355
    • Reputation: +863/-287
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #38 on: March 05, 2025, 12:12:09 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • What value is math unless it is the standard of truth? But I would argue that math is a tool used to represent and further estimate truth that already is. You first find the math that conforms to the part of reality in question, then use it to scale things or simulate reality or to estimate a likely, but unknown part of reality. It is possible to use math to prove "realities" that don't really exist. There was a Greek philosopher who thought nothing really moves because it would, according to math, have to cross an infinite number of fractions of distance. Quite probably in reality there is a limit to how small distances can get, so things don't have to pass infinity to move a finite amount.

    Putting math aside, and regardless of the circuмference of the globe in miles, observing the effects of the sun from various locations on earth should be sufficient to demonstrate the shape of the earth. It is a sort of blindness not to understand that. Give it time though, and with humility pray on it, as it can take time for things to click and make sense differently than you used to believe.

    Some experiments employ math techniques like scaling for flat earth results. For instance, the Bolivian salt flats help prove the earth is not a globe.  Kansas and the Midwest flat states also work to show that earth is not a globe. Oceans are the biggest tell. Yet people pretend that those aren't enough because they think they see curve outside their airplane window seat or watch ships disappear over the horizon. People also use math to prove realities that do not exist, that is, they use math to tell a lie. Like the pretense that goes into telling people the earth is a globe. After a very long time, I still have not met a single globe believer use math to prove the global curve exists.  They make weird attempts insisting it is proven, they can even fill entire chalkboards with numbers and symbols yet never produce results that are repeatable and verifiable by anyone but themselves. 

    I have not done the sun, but personally observed the moon from various positions on the Earth at the same time by simultaneous contact with multiple individuals from various countries online. The moon is identical (full or partial) even on opposite sides of what would be a globe. Africa, Asia, South America, North America, Europe and Australia. We also verified that the moon rolls like a wheel (same face) as the night progresses.  Other experiments are also easily done. However, some experiments need to be done by people with the means and tech to pull them off.  We have those results, too.  What's interesting to me, is that the people who use math, obtain results that coincide with Scripture. The people who claim the earth is a globe rarely do experiments themselves. If they actually do experiments, interestingly, they never support their results with Scripture. That alone is a mathematical constant. 

    Offline Tradman

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1355
    • Reputation: +863/-287
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #39 on: March 05, 2025, 12:12:43 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Hello, long time lurker.

    I love watching the sky and couldn't help myself but to suggest something for those interested. This March 13-14 will be a full moon with a complete lunar eclipse.

    There are no third parties here - everyone, if so inclined, can wake up and look up at the moon and observe with their own two eyes what is to be seen. It is a predicted that the eclipse will take over an hour for the shadow of the earth to pass over the lunar surface - a chance for an old-fashioned scientific observation as to the shape of the shadow and how it moves.

    At least wake the children to see it! Very cool!
    Thanks, will watch.

    Offline Gray2023

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 3102
    • Reputation: +1736/-964
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #40 on: March 05, 2025, 12:51:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Some experiments employ math techniques like scaling for flat earth results. For instance, the Bolivian salt flats help prove the earth is not a globe.  Kansas and the Midwest flat states also work to show that earth is not a globe. Oceans are the biggest tell. Yet people pretend that those aren't enough because they think they see curve outside their airplane window seat or watch ships disappear over the horizon. People also use math to prove realities that do not exist, that is, they use math to tell a lie. Like the pretense that goes into telling people the earth is a globe. After a very long time, I still have not met a single globe believer use math to prove the global curve exists.  They make weird attempts insisting it is proven, they can even fill entire chalkboards with numbers and symbols yet never produce results that are repeatable and verifiable by anyone but themselves. 

    I have not done the sun, but personally observed the moon from various positions on the Earth at the same time by simultaneous contact with multiple individuals from various countries online. The moon is identical (full or partial) even on opposite sides of what would be a globe. Africa, Asia, South America, North America, Europe and Australia. We also verified that the moon rolls like a wheel (same face) as the night progresses.  Other experiments are also easily done. However, some experiments need to be done by people with the means and tech to pull them off.  We have those results, too.  What's interesting to me, is that the people who use math, obtain results that coincide with Scripture. The people who claim the earth is a globe rarely do experiments themselves. If they actually do experiments, interestingly, they never support their results with Scripture. That alone is a mathematical constant.

    Do you have a reference for the proof that the Bolivian salt flats help prove the earth is not a globe?  I would like to look at it.  Thank you in advance.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Offline Tradman

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1355
    • Reputation: +863/-287
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #41 on: March 05, 2025, 01:16:30 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Do you have a reference for the proof that the Bolivian salt flats help prove the earth is not a globe?  I would like to look at it.  Thank you in advance.


    Salar de Uyuni (or "Salar de Tunupa")[1] is the world's largest salt flat, or playa, at 10,582 square kilometres (4,086 sq mi) in area.[2][3] It is in the Daniel Campos Province in Potosí in southwest Bolivia, near the crest of the Andes at an elevation of 3,656 m (11,995 ft) above sea level.[4]

    The earth is said to be 25,000 mi in circuмference (NASA)
    4 of 25 is 16%.

    So according to the Salt Flats in Bolivia just under 1/5 of the globe is measurably and admittedly flat.

    The Great Plains is a broad expanse of flatland in North America. The region is located to the east of the Rocky Mountains, much of it covered in prairie, steppe, and grassland. They are the western part of the Interior Plains, which include the mixed grass prairie, the tallgrass prairie between the Great Lakes and Appalachian Plateau, and the Taiga Plains and Boreal Plains ecozones in Northern Canada. "Great Plains", or Western Plains, is also the ecoregion of the Great Plains or the western portion of the Great Plains.
    The region is about 500 mi (800 km) east to west and 2,000 mi (3,200 km) north to south. Much of the region was home to American bison herds until they were hunted to near extinction during the mid/late-19th century. It has an area of approximately 500,000 sq mi

    This area is far greater in size than the Salt Flats, although a bit irregularly shaped.  Still, it is made up of 500,000 sq miles of virtually flat land.  That much flat area on a globe of 25,000 sq miles would deform the sphere so badly, it could not be properly called a globe.  Add the Salt Flats and other large flat areas (not included here) and you either have a blob, or the earth is flat.

    Offline Tradman

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1355
    • Reputation: +863/-287
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #42 on: March 05, 2025, 01:34:10 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Thanks to Ubi Caritas for reminding everyone about the eclipse on 13 of March. 
    Notice that while the entire world won't necessarily see the full eclipse,
    nevertheless, way more than 1/2 the world can see the moon at the same time.
    This is something I personally verified with a group of people around the world
    where we shared with conversation, pictures and video, an ordinary moon at 
    the same time in regions far from me. 

    This would not be possible if earth is a globe.


    The darkest areas on our eclipse map show where the total lunar eclipse can be seen. The lighter-shaded areas will not see the full lunar eclipse.

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 33100
    • Reputation: +29413/-605
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #43 on: March 05, 2025, 01:46:33 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • There's this, too -- 99% of the earth's population sees the sun on certain days.

    https://earthsky.org/earth/99-percent-worlds-population-receive-sunlight/
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    My accounts (Paypal, Venmo) have been (((shut down))) PM me for how to donate and keep the forum going.

    Offline Gray2023

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 3102
    • Reputation: +1736/-964
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Balloon footage - it's flat
    « Reply #44 on: March 05, 2025, 01:51:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Salar de Uyuni (or "Salar de Tunupa")[1] is the world's largest salt flat, or playa, at 10,582 square kilometres (4,086 sq mi) in area.[2][3] It is in the Daniel Campos Province in Potosí in southwest Bolivia, near the crest of the Andes at an elevation of 3,656 m (11,995 ft) above sea level.[4]

    The earth is said to be 25,000 mi in circuмference (NASA)
    4 of 25 is 16%.

    So according to the Salt Flats in Bolivia just under 1/5 of the globe is measurably and admittedly flat.

    The Great Plains is a broad expanse of flatland in North America. The region is located to the east of the Rocky Mountains, much of it covered in prairie, steppe, and grassland. They are the western part of the Interior Plains, which include the mixed grass prairie, the tallgrass prairie between the Great Lakes and Appalachian Plateau, and the Taiga Plains and Boreal Plains ecozones in Northern Canada. "Great Plains", or Western Plains, is also the ecoregion of the Great Plains or the western portion of the Great Plains.
    The region is about 500 mi (800 km) east to west and 2,000 mi (3,200 km) north to south. Much of the region was home to American bison herds until they were hunted to near extinction during the mid/late-19th century. It has an area of approximately 500,000 sq mi

    This area is far greater in size than the Salt Flats, although a bit irregularly shaped.  Still, it is made up of 500,000 sq miles of virtually flat land.  That much flat area on a globe of 25,000 sq miles would deform the sphere so badly, it could not be properly called a globe.  Add the Salt Flats and other large flat areas (not included here) and you either have a blob, or the earth is flat.
    Here is how the calculations actually work.

    To find the area of a circle using its circuмference, you can divide the circuмference by π to get the diameter, then divide the diameter by 2 to get the radius, and finally square the radius and multiply by π

    The area of a flat surface with a circuмference of 25000 miles is about 50000 sq miles.  (Fact check: The United States is 3,796,742 square miles in total area.)  Something does not add up?

    If you convert said NASA data to a flat earth then the circuмference of 25000 miles is actually the diameter of the earth.

    If you used this as a calculation then the are you are working with is 490,873,852 sq miles.  The salt flats are then only a very small part of the earths surface. 

    If you measure this as a sphere then you get more square miles to work with.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"