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Offline cassini

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Another heresy long condemned.
« on: August 25, 2024, 08:29:40 AM »
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    • Witty and thought provoking, two Vatican astronomers shed provocative light on some of the strange places where religion and science meet.

    “Imagine if a Martian showed up, all big ears and big nose like a child’s drawing, and he asked to be baptized. How would you react?” —Pope Francis, May, 2014

    Pope Francis posed that question—without insisting on an answer!—to provoke deeper reflection about inclusiveness and diversity in the Church. But it's not the first time that question has been asked.

    Brother Guy Consolmagno and Father Paul Mueller hear questions like that all the time. They’re scientists at the Vatican Observatory, the official astronomical research institute of the Catholic Church. In Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial? theyexplore a variety of questions at the crossroads of faith and reason: How do you reconcile the The Big Bang with Genesis? Was the Star of Bethlehem just a pious religious story or an actual description of astronomical events? What really went down between Galileo and the Catholic Church—and why do the effects of that confrontation still reverberate to this day? Will the Universe come to an end? And… could you really baptize an extraterrestrial?

    With disarming humor, Brother Guy and Father Paul explore these questions and more over the course of six days of dialogue. Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial will make you laugh, make you think, and make you reflect more deeply on science, faith, and the nature of the universe.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------In 1588, Bruno wrote the following in his fifth dialogue of On the Cause, Principle, and Unity:

    ‘I can imagine an infinite number of worlds like the Earth, with Garden of Eden on each one. In all these gardens of Eden, half the [alien] Adams and Eves will not eat the fruit of knowledge, but half will. But half of infinity is infinity, so an infinite number of worlds will fall from grace and there will be an infinite number of crucifixions.’--- As quoted by Prof. A. A. Martinez in his book Burned Alive. 


    ‘[St] Thomas Aquinas also denied the claim that there are multiple worlds. Like Hippolytus, he attributed this false claim to those who did not acknowledge the ordering wisdom of God. St Thomas declared: “Those who posit many worlds do not believe in any ordaining wisdom, but in chance, as Democritus, who said that this world and infinitely many others came from a concourse of atoms.”’--- Burned Alive.

    Baptism of course is a sacrament that erases Original Sin inherited only by the descendants of Adam and Eve. Why then would a pope offer to baptise a Martian? To subject this sacrament to heretical science-fiction shows us more rotten fruit of the Galilean reformation.
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Another heresy long condemned.
    « Reply #1 on: August 25, 2024, 08:37:47 AM »
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    • Brother Guy Consolmagno is first religious brother to receive the prestigious science award.
    That is what you get for heresy these days.

    If you met an alien from outer space, would you welcome him into your RCIA program and baptize him at the Easter Vigil? 
    That’s the question posed by Michigan-born Brother Guy Consolmagno, Jesuit astronomer and planetary scientist, in his latest book, “Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial?”  The book, co-authored by Father Paul Meuller, S.J., looks at serious and humorous questions from the astronomers’ in-box at the Vatican Observatory, and reveals how science and faith look at the same issues in different but complementary ways.

    The question is a serious one.  Pope Francis made the same point in a homily in May 2014 when he asked, “Imagine if a Martian showed up, all big ears and big nose like a child’s drawing, and he asked to be baptized.  How would you react?”  The Pope was making the point that everyone has a “right” to receive the Holy Spirit—even those, such as big green aliens, who seem not at all like us.

    This week at the 46th annual meeting of the American Astronomical Society’s Division of Planetary Scientists in Tucson, Arizona, Brother Guy Consolmagno will receive one of planetary science’s most prestigious awards, the Carl Sagan Medal.  The award was created in 1998 in commemoration of astronomer Carl Sagan, whose popular TV series “Cosmos” helped to generate enthusiasm for science and for space travel.  The Sagan Medal “recognizes and honors outstanding communication by an active planetary scientist to the general public, and is awarded to scientists whose efforts have significantly contributed to a public understanding of, and enthusiasm for, planetary science.” 

    Brother Guy is the first religious brother to receive the Sagan Medal.  The American Astronomical Society, in announcing the award last July, said that Consolmagno "occupies a unique position within our profession as a credible spokesperson for scientific honesty within the context of religious belief."

    Consolmagno is one of twelve Vatican astronomers. For two decades, he has served as curator of the Vatican’s extensive meteorite collection.  He’s been a worldwide lecturer, and is one of four Jesuits in history to have had an asteroid named after them—4597 Consolmagno, also known to scientists as “Little Guy.” 

    Consolmagno has authored or co-authored several books, including his most recent "Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial" as well as "Turn Left at Orion: Hundreds of Night Sky Objects to See in a Home Telescope—And How to Find Them," "God’s Mechanics: How Scientists and Engineers Make Sense of Religion," "The Heavens Proclaim: Astronomy and the Vatican," and "Brother Astronomer: Adventures of a Vatican Scientist."
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Another heresy long condemned.
    « Reply #2 on: August 25, 2024, 10:06:51 AM »
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    • Demons can’t be baptized.  God made man and from Adam’s rib, he made woman (Eve).  God made Eve to be a helper to Adam. 

    Instead of seeking awards on earth, we as Catholics are to be humble and seek heavenly treasures. 




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    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Another heresy long condemned.
    « Reply #3 on: August 27, 2024, 07:04:35 AM »
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    • ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS
    TO PARTICIPANTS IN THE 2024 LEMAÎTRE CONFERENCE
    OF THE VATICAN OBSERVATORY

    Hall of Popes
    Thursday, 20 June 2024

    [Multimedia]

    ________________________________________

    Ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, good morning!

    I greet His Eminence Cardinal Vérgez and Sister Secretary General.  Now women are starting to be in charge here!

    I offer you a cordial welcome and I thank you for your kind visit. In a special way, I express my gratitude to Brother Guy Consolmagno and to the other members of the community of the Vatican Observatory for their work in promoting this initiative.

    You are meeting in Castel Gandolfo for the Conference on “Black Holes, Gravitational Waves and Space-Time Singularities” organized in honour of Monsignor Georges Lemaître. In the seven years following the last Conference, the scientific contributions of this Belgian priest and cosmologist have been recognized by the International Astronomical Union, which has determined that the well-known Hubble law should properly be renamed the Hubble-Lemaître law.

    In these days, you have been discussing the latest questions raised by scientific research in cosmology: the differing results obtained in the measurement of the Hubble constant, the puzzling nature of certain cosmological singularities (from the Big Bang to Black Holes) and the very timely issue of gravitational waves.

    The Church seeks to follow and encourage these discussions, because they stimulate the interest and thinking of men and women in today’s world. The origin of the universe, its ultimate evolution and the deep structure of space and time, raise a number of serious questions about the meaning of life. They also open before our eyes an immense scenario in which it is easy to lose our bearings. In this sense, we can appreciate the relevance of the Psalmist’s exclamation: “When I see the heavens, the work of your hands, the moon and the stars which you arranged, what is man that you should keep him in mind, mortal man that you care for him? Truly, you have made him little less than a God; with glory and honour you have crowned him” (Ps 8:4-7). Nor can we fail to appreciate the importance of these issues for theology, philosophy, science and the spiritual life.

    Georges Lemaître was an exemplary priest and scientist. His human and spiritual journey offers a model of life from which all of us can learn.

    Out of respect for the wishes of his father, Lemaître first studied engineering. He served in the First World War and saw its horrors at first hand. Later, he went on to pursue his priestly and scientific vocation. At first, he tended towards “concordism”, namely the belief that veiled references to scientific truths are present in Sacred Scripture. Greater experience and spiritual maturity led him to realize that science and faith are two distinct and parallel paths, which are not in conflict. Indeed, the two paths prove complementary, inasmuch as, for the believer, science and faith are grounded alike in the absolute truth of God. Lemaître’s journey of faith led him to the awareness that “creation” and “the big bang” are two different realities, and that the God in whom he believed can never be reduced to an object neatly catalogued by human reason. Rather, he is always a Deus absconditus, a “hidden God”, shrouded in mystery and never fully transparent to human reason.

    Dear friends, I urge you to continue to investigate, with sincerity and humility, the important topics that you are presently discussing. May the freedom and lack of conditioning that you have experienced in this Conference help you to advance in your various fields towards that Truth which is surely a reflection of God’s eternal love. Faith and science can be united in charity, provided that science is put at the service of the men and woman of our time and not misused to harm or even destroy them. I encourage you, then, to press forward to the outer limits of human knowledge. For there, we can come to experience the God of love, who fulfils the deepest yearnings of the human heart.

    From the heart, I bless you and your work. And I ask you, in turn, please pray for me. Thank you.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Time was when popes taught God created all by his will alone, all, complete in its whole substance, in six days of Creation as Genesis reveals.
    Today, churchmen share the same story of origins as ATHEISTS.
    Lemaître, was such a good scientist priest that he didn't understand his friend Einstein had admitted the Earth was never proven to move, and that two tests in 1870 and 1887 showed evidence for this. But today, as we see above, there is more glory in the Catholic Church for the NATURAL ORIGINS of Lemaître, than the supernatural Creation of Catholicism. Here above Pope Francis praises the naturalism that eliminates the Supernatural.
    It is no wonder there will be no faith on Earth when Christ returns.
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Another heresy long condemned.
    « Reply #4 on: August 27, 2024, 07:22:49 AM »
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    • Fr Georges Lemaître and his all seeing eyes.. 
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    Offline Predestination

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    Re: Another heresy long condemned.
    « Reply #5 on: September 15, 2024, 01:00:37 AM »
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    • “would you baptise a demon”
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    So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. - Roman’s 9:16 Douay Rheims

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Another heresy long condemned.
    « Reply #6 on: September 15, 2024, 11:19:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on August 25, 2024, 08:29:40 AM
    Baptism of course is a sacrament that erases Original Sin inherited only by the descendants of Adam and Eve. Why then would a pope offer to baptise a Martian?

    Because, to many Modernists, the point of Baptism is to simply initiate people into the "community of believers" ... and not to deal with that old superstitious nonsense about "Original Sin".  Jorge and most Modernists are in fact Pelagians.
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    Offline Predestination

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    Re: Another heresy long condemned.
    « Reply #7 on: September 15, 2024, 05:03:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 15, 2024, 11:19:46 AM
    Because, to many Modernists, the point of Baptism is to simply initiate people into the "community of believers" ... and not to deal with that old superstitious nonsense about "Original Sin".  Jorge and most Modernists are in fact Pelagians.
    Unfortunately so are many people on this forum who blatantly deny predestination… I found that out very quickly just trying to share some Garrigou Lagrange 

    and even if the modernists were right about original sin they’d still be initiating a DEMON into their community of believers :laugh1::laugh2::jester:
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    So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. - Roman’s 9:16 Douay Rheims

    Offline Predestination2

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    Re: Another heresy long condemned.
    « Reply #8 on: Today at 01:56:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on August 27, 2024, 07:04:35 AM
    ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS
    TO PARTICIPANTS IN THE 2024 LEMAÎTRE CONFERENCE
    OF THE VATICAN OBSERVATORY

    Hall of Popes
    Thursday, 20 June 2024

    [Multimedia]

    ________________________________________

    Ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, good morning!

    I greet His Eminence Cardinal Vérgez and Sister Secretary General.  Now women are starting to be in charge here!

    I offer you a cordial welcome and I thank you for your kind visit. In a special way, I express my gratitude to Brother Guy Consolmagno and to the other members of the community of the Vatican Observatory for their work in promoting this initiative.

    You are meeting in Castel Gandolfo for the Conference on “Black Holes, Gravitational Waves and Space-Time Singularities” organized in honour of Monsignor Georges Lemaître. In the seven years following the last Conference, the scientific contributions of this Belgian priest and cosmologist have been recognized by the International Astronomical Union, which has determined that the well-known Hubble law should properly be renamed the Hubble-Lemaître law.

    In these days, you have been discussing the latest questions raised by scientific research in cosmology: the differing results obtained in the measurement of the Hubble constant, the puzzling nature of certain cosmological singularities (from the Big Bang to Black Holes) and the very timely issue of gravitational waves.

    The Church seeks to follow and encourage these discussions, because they stimulate the interest and thinking of men and women in today’s world. The origin of the universe, its ultimate evolution and the deep structure of space and time, raise a number of serious questions about the meaning of life. They also open before our eyes an immense scenario in which it is easy to lose our bearings. In this sense, we can appreciate the relevance of the Psalmist’s exclamation: “When I see the heavens, the work of your hands, the moon and the stars which you arranged, what is man that you should keep him in mind, mortal man that you care for him? Truly, you have made him little less than a God; with glory and honour you have crowned him” (Ps 8:4-7). Nor can we fail to appreciate the importance of these issues for theology, philosophy, science and the spiritual life.

    Georges Lemaître was an exemplary priest and scientist. His human and spiritual journey offers a model of life from which all of us can learn.

    Out of respect for the wishes of his father, Lemaître first studied engineering. He served in the First World War and saw its horrors at first hand. Later, he went on to pursue his priestly and scientific vocation. At first, he tended towards “concordism”, namely the belief that veiled references to scientific truths are present in Sacred Scripture. Greater experience and spiritual maturity led him to realize that science and faith are two distinct and parallel paths, which are not in conflict. Indeed, the two paths prove complementary, inasmuch as, for the believer, science and faith are grounded alike in the absolute truth of God. Lemaître’s journey of faith led him to the awareness that “creation” and “the big bang” are two different realities, and that the God in whom he believed can never be reduced to an object neatly catalogued by human reason. Rather, he is always a Deus absconditus, a “hidden God”, shrouded in mystery and never fully transparent to human reason.

    Dear friends, I urge you to continue to investigate, with sincerity and humility, the important topics that you are presently discussing. May the freedom and lack of conditioning that you have experienced in this Conference help you to advance in your various fields towards that Truth which is surely a reflection of God’s eternal love. Faith and science can be united in charity, provided that science is put at the service of the men and woman of our time and not misused to harm or even destroy them. I encourage you, then, to press forward to the outer limits of human knowledge. For there, we can come to experience the God of love, who fulfils the deepest yearnings of the human heart.

    From the heart, I bless you and your work. And I ask you, in turn, please pray for me. Thank you.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Time was when popes taught God created all by his will alone, all, complete in its whole substance, in six days of Creation as Genesis reveals.
    Today, churchmen share the same story of origins as ATHEISTS.
    Lemaître, was such a good scientist priest that he didn't understand his friend Einstein had admitted the Earth was never proven to move, and that two tests in 1870 and 1887 showed evidence for this. But today, as we see above, there is more glory in the Catholic Church for the NATURAL ORIGINS of Lemaître, than the supernatural Creation of Catholicism. Here above Pope Francis praises the naturalism that eliminates the Supernatural.
    It is no wonder there will be no faith on Earth when Christ returns.
    “His holiness pope”
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    Vatican 2 was worse than both WW1 and WW2 combined.
    So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 
    Tried 6,000,000 pushups, only got to 271K

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Another heresy long condemned.
    « Reply #9 on: Today at 05:56:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Predestination2 on Today at 01:56:00 AM
    “His holiness pope”
    Is Predestination, you as well?
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline hgodwinson

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    Re: Another heresy long condemned.
    « Reply #10 on: Today at 03:26:31 PM »
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    • Is it not bad practice to ponder questions rooted in falsehood? By asking wether or not it would be permissable to baptise extraterrestrial life, you are operating under the premise that extraterrestrial intelligence is possible, which would be against the Catholic faith. It is the same situation, I believe, when trads answer questions such as "what would you do if the Vatican ii church was the true church?".
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