Here is Genesis, chapter 1. from the Duoay Rheims Bible online.

1In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. 1 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.  3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made.  4 And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the darkness.  5 And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.

What exactly is happening here?  We have a darkness and a light and they are divided. Is this light electricity? 

 6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.  7 And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.  8 And God called the firmament, Heaven; 

Heaven is the firmament?  Then how is it a dome or a vault or a solid surface?

and the evening and morning were the second day.  9 God also said: Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so done.  10 And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

No questions.  This is what we all believe is earth and where we live.

 11 And he said: Let the earth bring forth the green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done.  12 And the earth brought forth the green herb, and such as yieldeth seed according to its kind, and the tree that beareth fruit, having seed each one according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.  13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 

No questions.  This is when vegetation was made.

14 And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:  15 To shine in the firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth. And it was so done.

Here we have lights made in the firmament of heaven.  It does not say what these light are called.  We have just made the assumption that it is the sun and the moon.  How come it can't be the sun and the stars?  The text say lights to divide the day and night.

 16 And God made two great lights: a greater light to rule the day; and a lesser light to rule the night: and the stars.  17 And he set them in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth.  18 And to rule the day and the night, and to divide the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.  19 And the evening and morning were the fourth day.

Now we have maybe the sun and the moon.  Though genesis does not call them by name.  Who named these lights?

 20 God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven.  21 And God created the great whales, and every living and moving creature, which the waters brought forth, according to their kinds, and every winged fowl according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.  22 And he blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the waters of the sea: and let the birds be multiplied upon the earth.  23 And the evening and morning were the fifth day.

5th day God created birds in the sky below the firmament and animals of the sea

 24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.  25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good.  26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.  27 And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.  28 And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth.  29 And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat:  30 And to all beasts of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to all that move upon the earth, and wherein there is life, that they may have to feed upon. And it was so done.  31 And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day.

6th day God created man and animals.

So from this description you have waters below the firmament (earth) firmament (Heaven, or sky, where the lights are located), waters above the firmament (which were released at the Great Flood). Nothing here says anything about a hard ceiling like surface.

Do others get the same picture from this passage or a different picture?

Thank you, cassini.  That makes a lot of sense.

Ms. Gray:


This issue is discussed by St. Augustine in his Confessions. You might want to check the thread with quotations from that book here.

Basically the word Heaven of verse 8, which God uses to refer to the firmament, has not the same meaning as in verse 1 ("... God created heaven and earth..."). For St. Augustine the "heaven" of verse 1 is the purely spiritual creature (angels) and the "Heaven" of verse 8, the firmament, is a visible creature, part of the "earth" if considered relative to the "heaven" of verse 1.

I understand this.

The saint writes in Book XII of his Confessions:

Here when he says "heaven of this heaven", he means the purely spiritual creature of verse 1.

As per the solidity of the "Heaven" of verse 8, I go by the etimology of the word "firmament" (comes from "firm"). That's the most natural explanation. Also, if the "Heaven" of verse 8, the firmament, is part of the "earth" of verse 1, which is the material part of creation, it must be sensible, may be touched, etc..

I am little confused by this.  In this verse " 14 And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:  15 To shine in the firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth. And it was so done."


The lights of the day and night are to be hung in the firmament of heaven, doesn't that mean it is not a solid thing like brass?  You can't hang things in a solid thing.

Ave María Purísima.

Just to give some background.  This is a thread in response to this other thread, which started about here https://www.cathinfo.com/members-only/flat-earth-proofs-and-evidence/msg953392/#msg953392