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Author Topic: A question for CIF heliocentrists.  (Read 637 times)

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Offline cassini

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A question for CIF heliocentrists.
« on: April 19, 2025, 12:38:19 PM »
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  • And now a little physics question. How long would it take to get a craft to travel 34,000,000 miles to Mars? Well, the internet tells us, at an average speed of around 28,000mph, it takes 332 days. OK, jump off a bus doing 50mph and you leave it at 50mph, yes? But what about a rocket leaving the Earth that is supposedly moving at 67,000mph. If we add the generated engine powered 28,000mph used to get the rocket out of the Earth’s atmosphere, shouldn’t the rocket then head off to Mars at around 95,000mph getting there in one third the time it takes according to NASA?

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #1 on: April 19, 2025, 02:24:24 PM »
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  • My hypothesis according to modern science is that you would have to consider whether mars is getting closer or farther from earth, where it is located relative to earth, and which direction the rocket left earth, whether directly or after orbiting. The speed of the rocket will be relative to whichever reference points are chosen (earth, or mars, or the sun, ect). There's no simple answer, only rough averages of the estimated speeds involved since the rocket will almost certainly be constantly changing speed relative to any reference point I mentioned.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
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    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #2 on: April 19, 2025, 06:37:04 PM »
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  • Cassini,

    I get where you're coming from. Only problem is only NASA and nation states are sending anything to Mars these days and most people in this debate don't trust them. It's possible that the NASA people just don't believe they even need to hide anything and that they just use whatever math works, assuming on their part it's just a matter of perspective. They do a similar thing with GPS; they use the calculations for distance as if the geocentric model was real because it works, but they don't see it as evidence of reality. They do it with evolution too. When they ask if it's possible for some unlikely thing to happen by an evolutionary process, like whales returning to the ocean from the land; they say it has to be, because it obviously happened.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 05:24:43 AM »
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  • The question was about the speed of a rocket leaving an Earth supposedly moving at 67,000mph. It doesn't matter where it is headed to, the moon or a planet. No matter where it is going to it never gets there in the time other than the speed of a rocket leaving a fixed Earth.

    So, here is another problem for heliocentrists.
    Helios say the Earth goes around a fixed sun in a fixed star universe, yes?
    Geos say the sun and stars move around a fixed Earth, yes?
    Did you know that a sun year and a star year take different times.
    How can this be with a helio fixed sun and stars?
    Surely it can only happen if the sun and stars move at different speeds.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 05:51:40 AM »
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  • I thought the Tyconian system had the sun revolving around the earth and then the stars around the sun.


    Offline cassini

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 06:36:34 AM »
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  • I thought the Tyconian system had the sun revolving around the earth and then the stars around the sun.

    Yes Ladislaus, two different movements in Tycho's geocentrism can give two different year times by a few minutes as measured.
     But its the fixed helio sun and stars that cannot have two different year times.
    So, does this prove heliocentrism is wrong.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 08:21:49 AM »
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  • Yes Ladislaus, two different movements in Tycho's geocentrism can give two different year times by a few minutes as measured.
     But its the fixed helio sun and stars that cannot have two different year times.
    So, does this prove heliocentrism is wrong.


    Interesting question ... I just don't know all the math involved here, so can't comment, but of course I'm already concinved that the earth is stationary, not only due to the Holy Office decree, but also due to Airy's experiment and Michelson-Morley.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 11:38:58 AM »
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  • People should question geocentric the globe model guy Tycho Brahe as a source, considering his practices.   

    The pioneering astronomer Johannes Kepler may have had his eyes on the heavens, but chemical analysis of his manuscripts suggests he was “willing to get his hands dirty” and may have dabbled in alchemy. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jun/13/groundbreaking-astronomer-kepler-may-have-practised-alchemy

    And from Wiki,

    Tycho Brahe
    Danish astronomer and alchemist, 1546–1601
    Tycho Brahe, generally called Tycho for short, was a Danish astronomer of the Renaissance, known for his comprehensive and unprecedentedly accurate astronomical observations. He was known during his lifetime as an astronomer, astrologer, and alchemist. He was the last major astronomer before the invention of the telescope. Wikipedia

    alchemy /ăl′kə-mē/
    noun
    • A medieval chemical philosophy having as its asserted aims the transmutation of base metals into gold, the discovery of the panacea, and the preparation of the elixir of longevity.
    • A seemingly magical power or process of transmuting.
    • An imaginary art which aimed to transmute the baser metals into gold, to find the panacea, or universal remedy for diseases, etc. It led the way to modern chemistry.
    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition




    Offline Tradman

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 11:49:07 AM »
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  • Travel to a "planet" in the heliocentric model is stupid anyway.  Rockets can't burn fuel in empty space without oxygen.  Even if they could manage fuel burning, what in the vacuum does the rocket push against? Also, how can one calculate speed difference of a rocket in Earth's atmosphere against that of the empty vacuum of space?  

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 12:14:27 PM »
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  • Rocket propellant could be as simple as compressed gas that is blown out the back and not even ignited. Why do Nasa rockets use liquid oxygen in their fuel to help burn hydrogen when the rocket is still in the oxygen filled earth atmosphere? Anyway, they can take oxygen into space to burn with whatever fuel needs oxidizing, but there are other fuels that will react and "burn" without oxygen. 

    The rocket pushes against the burned fuel, as well as making use of leverage as the expanding gasses push and slip against the sides of the rocket nozzle. If you have a tank of compressed gas in a vacuum and release the gas, it will shoot out and away from the container it is coming from, right? Well, for the stationary gas in the container to shoot off in any direction, a force needs to be applied as well as an equal and opposite force. The released gas will fly away at a very high speed because of it's low mass, but the much heavier container will also be moved, just much slower.

    If you want your questions answered, do some more research. There are videos out there that will help you understand how rockets work.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline cassini

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 12:34:43 PM »
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  • People should question geocentric the globe model guy Tycho Brahe as a source, considering his practices.   

    The pioneering astronomer Johannes Kepler may have had his eyes on the heavens, but chemical analysis of his manuscripts suggests he was “willing to get his hands dirty” and may have dabbled in alchemy. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jun/13/groundbreaking-astronomer-kepler-may-have-practised-alchemy

    And from Wiki,

    Tycho Brahe
    Danish astronomer and alchemist, 1546–1601
    Tycho Brahe, generally called Tycho for short, was a Danish astronomer of the Renaissance, known for his comprehensive and unprecedentedly accurate astronomical observations. He was known during his lifetime as an astronomer, astrologer, and alchemist. He was the last major astronomer before the invention of the telescope. Wikipedia

    alchemy /ăl′kə-mē/
    noun
    • A medieval chemical philosophy having as its asserted aims the transmutation of base metals into gold, the discovery of the panacea, and the preparation of the elixir of longevity.
    • A seemingly magical power or process of transmuting.
    • An imaginary art which aimed to transmute the baser metals into gold, to find the panacea, or universal remedy for diseases, etc. It led the way to modern chemistry.
    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition

    In 1601, at the age of 55 Tycho came down with a ‘mysterious’ disease, now thought to have been mercury poisoning resulting from his alchemy or perhaps metals used in his false nose. Before he died, and so that his work could carry on, he entrusted one of his students with his records, one Johannes Kepler.

    ‘Beginning in 1669, Newton devoted the next ten years of his life all but exclusively to alchemical research, including experiments involving equipment in his Cambridge apartment. Newton devoted more of his life to alchemy than he did to mechanics or optics or even mathematics. The Principia was in many ways the culmination of his alchemical studies, but it was also in many ways nothing but a short interruption of them as well.’--- E. Michael Jones

    What we know now is that by the time of his death in 1727, Newton had amassed over one million written words on alchemy.  The Royal Society, who published all his other works, had prudently deemed Newton’s alchemical thoughts ‘not fit to be printed.’ But in 1936, the cat leapt out of the bag when a wealthy industrialist John Maynard Keynes purchased a case of Isaac Newton’s writings found hidden away. Expecting to find Newton’s scientific notes he found instead the man’s writings on alchemy. After reading these papers, Keynes coined a new identity for Isaac in 1942, ‘the last of the magicians.’

    In 1696 an unnamed and shadowy figure…visited Newton in Cambridge to discuss alchemy. They did not meet by chance; the man came to find him. Newton recorded the conversation in a memorandum. Alchemy formed the initial subject of a correspondence with Robert Boyle (1627-1691) [Royal Society] that commenced in 1676. His friendship with John Locke [Royal Society] and Fatio de Duillier [Royal Society] involved alchemy, but both of them began only in the late 1680s.

    And they are the freemasons who promoted heliocentrism a proven 



    Offline Tradman

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 12:36:09 PM »
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  • Rocket propellant could be as simple as compressed gas that is blown out the back and not even ignited. Why do Nasa rockets use liquid oxygen in their fuel to help burn hydrogen when the rocket is still in the oxygen filled earth atmosphere? Anyway, they can take oxygen into space to burn with whatever fuel needs oxidizing, but there are other fuels that will react and "burn" without oxygen.

    The rocket pushes against the burned fuel, as well as making use of leverage as the expanding gasses push and slip against the sides of the rocket nozzle. If you have a tank of compressed gas in a vacuum and release the gas, it will shoot out and away from the container it is coming from, right? Well, for the stationary gas in the container to shoot off in any direction, a force needs to be applied as well as an equal and opposite force. The released gas will fly away at a very high speed because of it's low mass, but the much heavier container will also be moved, just much slower.

    If you want your questions answered, do some more research. There are videos out there that will help you understand how rockets work.

    Funny answer. Gases don't burn without oxygen and the amount of oxygen and fuel needed to propel a ship as far as the fantasizers claim that Mars is, even super compressed, would exceed the size of the vehicle. Rockets don't push against burned fuel, they push against oxygenated atmosphere. Besides the fuel and oxygen needed for combustion, the atmosphere is the other necessary component that provides thrust, something totally MIA in the vacuum of space.  

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 12:41:22 PM »
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  • In 1601, at the age of 55 Tycho came down with a ‘mysterious’ disease, now thought to have been mercury poisoning resulting from his alchemy or perhaps metals used in his false nose. Before he died, and so that his work could carry on, he entrusted one of his students with his records, one Johannes Kepler.

    ‘Beginning in 1669, Newton devoted the next ten years of his life all but exclusively to alchemical research, including experiments involving equipment in his Cambridge apartment. Newton devoted more of his life to alchemy than he did to mechanics or optics or even mathematics. The Principia was in many ways the culmination of his alchemical studies, but it was also in many ways nothing but a short interruption of them as well.’--- E. Michael Jones

    What we know now is that by the time of his death in 1727, Newton had amassed over one million written words on alchemy.  The Royal Society, who published all his other works, had prudently deemed Newton’s alchemical thoughts ‘not fit to be printed.’ But in 1936, the cat leapt out of the bag when a wealthy industrialist John Maynard Keynes purchased a case of Isaac Newton’s writings found hidden away. Expecting to find Newton’s scientific notes he found instead the man’s writings on alchemy. After reading these papers, Keynes coined a new identity for Isaac in 1942, ‘the last of the magicians.’

    In 1696 an unnamed and shadowy figure…visited Newton in Cambridge to discuss alchemy. They did not meet by chance; the man came to find him. Newton recorded the conversation in a memorandum. Alchemy formed the initial subject of a correspondence with Robert Boyle (1627-1691) [Royal Society] that commenced in 1676. His friendship with John Locke [Royal Society] and Fatio de Duillier [Royal Society] involved alchemy, but both of them began only in the late 1680s.

    And they are the freemasons who promoted heliocentrism a proven


    Yep. Also, wasn't Kepler suspected of murdering Brahe? Heliocentric theory was built on lies, murder and plagiarism. 

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: A question for CIF heliocentrists.
    « Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 09:03:48 PM »
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  • Funny answer. Gases don't burn without oxygen and the amount of oxygen and fuel needed to propel a ship as far as the fantasizers claim that Mars is, even super compressed, would exceed the size of the vehicle. Rockets don't push against burned fuel, they push against oxygenated atmosphere. Besides the fuel and oxygen needed for combustion, the atmosphere is the other necessary component that provides thrust, something totally MIA in the vacuum of space. 

    So, you know everything? I don't think I'll waste my time explaining any more to you. You need to do your own research as far behind as you are in understanding the good honest science of physics. I counted at least 6 errors in your statement quoted above.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"