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Author Topic: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat  (Read 223431 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #825 on: August 08, 2017, 08:34:30 AM »
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  • There is no such thing as a geocentric ball earth theory in science. That is a very recent modern concept by those who figured out that the earth isn't moving.  So they invented a ball hanging in space too fearful to accept the geocentric model long ago shown to be true.  The problem with ball theory is that it is a hybrid of a lie by pagan modern science known as the heliocentric model. For those who think there is even a modicuм of truth to this theory, please explain how NASA is proven to lie about moving, rotating, barrelling earth, but isn't lying about it being a globe?    

    You mention that there is no such thing as a geocentric ball theory in science, so it's interesting that Neil keeps using mainstream science to back up his views. That's why I thought he was a heliocentrist - I didn't see any obvious evidence that he was using a geo-centric model, though I may have missed it.

    As you say, the ball-earthers should explain how it is that NASA has obviously lied about the fact that the earth is not a moving, rotating, barreling earth, but that NASA (they believe) is telling the truth about the earth being a globe. 

    What is it about NASA that inspires such confidence that they as an organization are held up as promoters of truth, even when it's shown that NASA has not been honest about other important issues? After all, NASA does not promote or even believe in God. What has NASA done to promote the idea of God, of Our Lord, or the Kingship of Christ? They've done absolutely nothing. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #826 on: August 08, 2017, 08:45:23 AM »
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  • Flat-Earther:  I learnt everything I know about the earth being flat from my next-door neighbor.

    Them's some fine lookin' trailers, mr. Ohcha. I'm just wishin' that the trailer park that me and them other flat earthers are livin' in looked as fine as that'un. Land sakes, why, they probly even has cable television! Hee Haw!
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #827 on: August 08, 2017, 11:17:32 AM »
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  • You mention that there is no such thing as a geocentric ball theory in science, so it's interesting that Neil keeps using mainstream science to back up his views. That's why I thought he was a heliocentrist - I didn't see any obvious evidence that he was using a geo-centric model, though I may have missed it.

    As you say, the ball-earthers should explain how it is that NASA has obviously lied about the fact that the earth is not a moving, rotating, barreling earth, but that NASA (they believe) is telling the truth about the earth being a globe.

    What is it about NASA that inspires such confidence that they as an organization are held up as promoters of truth, even when it's shown that NASA has not been honest about other important issues? After all, NASA does not promote or even believe in God. What has NASA done to promote the idea of God, of Our Lord, or the Kingship of Christ? They've done absolutely nothing.
    Maybe they believe the NASA Freemasons because they also believe the heretical doctrines the Freemason infiltrators in the Catholic Church are spoon-feeding them.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #828 on: August 08, 2017, 01:11:37 PM »
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  • You mention that there is no such thing as a geocentric ball theory in science, so it's interesting that Neil keeps using mainstream science to back up his views. That's why I thought he was a heliocentrist - I didn't see any obvious evidence that he was using a geo-centric model, though I may have missed it.

    As you say, the ball-earthers should explain how it is that NASA has obviously lied about the fact that the earth is not a moving, rotating, barreling earth, but that NASA (they believe) is telling the truth about the earth being a globe.

    What is it about NASA that inspires such confidence that they as an organization are held up as promoters of truth, even when it's shown that NASA has not been honest about other important issues? After all, NASA does not promote or even believe in God. What has NASA done to promote the idea of God, of Our Lord, or the Kingship of Christ? They've done absolutely nothing.
    Yes, Neil has made a decision to fight this, but his approach as you say, is contradictory...on many levels. (Shameless pun)  The flat earth/sphere dichotomy is a huge clue to getting to the point of flat earth. We have great enemies who hate God and are intent making themselves God and enslaving us.  Yet so many "God fearing men" heartily believe the enemy's false notion of creation.  Belief in the devil's propaganda provides evil men tremendous power.  But evil only has that power if we freely give it away by believing lies rather than God, His Word, the Church, etc.  Flat earth incites the deepest of passions because we're talking about people's own little twisted world, in their own little twisted minds, who prefer a certain little twisted relationship with God based on their demonic world view. And they like it! Hence the vitriol you endure when you share the one thing they fear most: God's world, God's rules.   
    The true and Catholic view of our environment frees us, enlightens us, enables us to love God, worship Him with understanding, humility and awe. Not to mention, it helps protects us from becoming enslaved in a myriad of ways.  It seems to me that flat earth gives us the necessary grounding we need to connect to God and to trust Him even more.  It even provides a backdrop for understanding why mundane duty, maintaining simplicity, and being grounded, especially in truth, are so necessary and so good. A right understanding of our earth really does matter.  Ultimately, flat earth reflects God's Word rather than the globe which puts a spin on it (pun again).  God's firm, level playing-field foundation actually provides a physical basis for trusting His Word.  

    Offline happenby

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #829 on: August 08, 2017, 01:13:43 PM »
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  • Maybe they believe the NASA Freemasons because they also believe the heretical doctrines the Freemason infiltrators in the Catholic Church are spoon-feeding them.
    In some capacity at least!


    Offline Meg

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #830 on: August 08, 2017, 01:27:02 PM »
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  • Yes, Neil has made a decision to fight this, but his approach as you say, is contradictory...on many levels. (Shameless pun)  The flat earth/sphere dichotomy is a huge clue to getting to the point of flat earth. We have great enemies who hate God and are intent making themselves God and enslaving us.  Yet so many "God fearing men" heartily believe the enemy's false notion of creation.  Belief in the devil's propaganda provides evil men tremendous power.  But evil only has that power if we freely give it away by believing lies rather than God, His Word, the Church, etc.  Flat earth incites the deepest of passions because we're talking about people's own little twisted world, in their own little twisted minds, who prefer a certain little twisted relationship with God based on their demonic world view. And they like it! Hence the vitriol you endure when you share the one thing they fear most: God's world, God's rules.  
    The true and Catholic view of our environment frees us, enlightens us, enables us to love God, worship Him with understanding, humility and awe. Not to mention, it helps protects us from becoming enslaved in a myriad of ways.  It seems to me that flat earth gives us the necessary grounding we need to connect to God and to trust Him even more.  It even provides a backdrop for understanding why mundane duty, maintaining simplicity, and being grounded, especially in truth, are so necessary and so good. A right understanding of our earth really does matter.  Ultimately, flat earth reflects God's Word rather than the globe which puts a spin on it (pun again).  God's firm, level playing-field foundation actually provides a physical basis for trusting His Word.  


    I agree, except for the part where you mention about them preferring a certain twisted relationship with God based on a demonic world view. I mean, I think I understand what you're saying, but I would go a little easier on them, given that our schools (even traditional Catholic schools, probably) teach a heliocentric view, and it's what we've always been taught. It takes a certain leap of faith to question the shape of the earth, since our whole world basically doesn't accept a flat earth. I don't really blame them, in a sense. To go up against the status quo regarding a subject like this isn't easy or pleasant. It's frustrating to have to endure their vitrol, granted, but it might help us to learn to be more patient, too (at least for me).

    I try to take the example of how St. Bernadette dealt with the angry secular authorities who were against her because of the apparitions of the BVM - she told these authorities the truth, and wasn't above being a bit snarky at times. But she was not uncharitable. I'm not very good at following her example, because I often forget about it. But I try. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #831 on: August 08, 2017, 03:22:28 PM »
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  • I hadn't realized that you are not a supporter of Heliocentrism. Sorry about that.

    As to the other issue, the inability to show an accurate depiction of the supposed scale of the earth and moon in relation to the sun, well, this issue isn't the same thing at all as not being able to depict an oxygen molecule. We cannot, of course, see molecules at all with the naked eye. We can, however, clearly see the sun and moon.

    It isn't reasonable, IMO, to think that the sun is so far away from the earth that it can't possibly be depicted accurately in a drawing of any kind whatsoever.

    And we have Sacred Scripture on our side.
    .
    An accurate picture of the sun, moon and earth depicted on one page or one computer screen would look like a line going across the page or screen, and would not convey any information. The purpose of the out-of-scale images is to bring the details of the very long reality down to size so its parts can be observed. When we watch an eclipse in person we are seeing the whole picture from the end of the line segment, so we do not observe the length of it because of its foreshortening due to our line of sight. It can be compared to a rifleman sighting a target through a riflescope. What he sees in the scope is an enlarged image of his target, but he cannot see the side view of the bullet's impact. That takes another point of view, at the target. But if we take that same point of view and try to draw in the length of the shot and include the image of the rifleman holding his gun, suddenly the parts of the whole picture become so small on the page that the whole thing would look like a line, conveying no information of the details of the rifle or target.

    For you to be consistent, you would then say, that since the details of the rifleman and target cannot be given on one page then you do not have to believe that they exist. Does that make any sense?
    .
    Or take the finding of the Titanic on the ocean floor. Try to draw a picture of the searching ship on the water's surface, with the cables going down into the depths of the sea, at the end of which is the submersible craft with lights and camera, showing as well the wreck of the Titanic on the ocean floor. Try to fit all that on one page showing details such as the shape of the submersible and identifiable parts of the ship, and don't forget, the length of the cable is over one mile, or 5,280 feet. For you to be consistent, you would have to say that since those details cannot be shown on one page then you don't have to believe they were possible, and that the Titanic was never found or observed as they reported it was.
    .
    For something to have happened at a great distance it is not necessary that the whole event must be viewable on one page or one computer screen with an accurate scale image. 
    .
    Can you show a detailed picture of the airport where you took off, the flight path of the aircraft over hundreds of miles, the airplane you flew on, and the airport you landed, all on one page? If not, then you must not have taken any such flight because it cannot be shown on one page or one computer screen, no?
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #832 on: August 08, 2017, 03:40:31 PM »
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  • .
    An accurate picture of the sun, moon and earth depicted on one page or one computer screen would look like a line going across the page or screen, and would not convey any information. The purpose of the out-of-scale images is to bring the details of the very long reality down to size so its parts can be observed. When we watch an eclipse in person we are seeing the whole picture from the end of the line segment, so we do not observe the length of it because of its foreshortening due to our line of sight. It can be compared to a rifleman sighting a target through a riflescope. What he sees in the scope is an enlarged image of his target, but he cannot see the side view of the bullet's impact. That takes another point of view, at the target. But if we take that same point of view and try to draw in the length of the shot and include the image of the rifleman holding his gun, suddenly the parts of the whole picture become so small on the page that the whole thing would look like a line, conveying no information of the details of the rifle or target.
    .
    For you to be consistent, you would then say, that since the details of the rifleman and target cannot be given on one page then you do not have to believe that they exist. Does that make any sense?
    .
    Or take the finding of the Titanic on the ocean floor. Try to draw a picture of the searching ship on the water's surface, with the cables going down into the depths of the sea, at the end of which is the submersible craft with lights and camera, showing as well the wreck of the Titanic on the ocean floor. Try to fit all that on one page showing details such as the shape of the submersible and identifiable parts of the ship, and don't forget, the length of the cable is over one mile, or 5,280 feet. For you to be consistent, you would have to say that since those details cannot be shown on one page then you don't have to believe they were possible, and that the Titanic was never found or observed as they reported it was.
    .
    For something to have happened at a great distance it is not necessary that the whole event must be viewable on one page or one computer screen with an accurate scale image.
    .
    Can you show a detailed picture of the airport where you took off, the flight path of the aircraft over hundreds of miles, the airplane you flew on, and the airport you landed, all on one page? If not, then you must not have taken any such flight because it cannot be shown on one page or one computer screen, no?
    .

    None of the new analogies above make your case more plausible. I've already said why your view doesn't make sense. That hasn't changed. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline happenby

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #833 on: August 08, 2017, 04:24:40 PM »
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  • I agree, except for the part where you mention about them preferring a certain twisted relationship with God based on a demonic world view. I mean, I think I understand what you're saying, but I would go a little easier on them, given that our schools (even traditional Catholic schools, probably) teach a heliocentric view, and it's what we've always been taught. It takes a certain leap of faith to question the shape of the earth, since our whole world basically doesn't accept a flat earth. I don't really blame them, in a sense. To go up against the status quo regarding a subject like this isn't easy or pleasant. It's frustrating to have to endure their vitrol, granted, but it might help us to learn to be more patient, too (at least for me).

    I try to take the example of how St. Bernadette dealt with the angry secular authorities who were against her because of the apparitions of the BVM - she told these authorities the truth, and wasn't above being a bit snarky at times. But she was not uncharitable. I'm not very good at following her example, because I often forget about it. But I try.
    I guess I wasn't terribly clear that it is only the people who react with vitriol who are the ones with the demonic world view. Otherwise why do they resist with so much name-calling, anger and denial?  Flat earth is indeed a difficult thing to wrap one's head around, but it never should invoke the kind of demeaning trash-talk and threats flat earthers often endure. Conversely, flat earthers owe everyone charitable responses.  Sometimes, in our haste, after having been haggled and dogged and called morons long enough, we too lash out (like Peter with his sword) but usually only after repeated aggression. Still...not good. As you mentioned, we really must try to maintain good example.  It is also true that sound doctrine and truth are often not endured today and the person delivering it is seen as a bad guy, divisive, rude when he's not, and uncharitable just for speaking the truth. This response to truth is often used as a weapon to shut down the message and is difficult to ignore.  Formulating excellent and charitable responses in every condition is something I've worked on with this subject for the past 10 years.  Someday, I hope to be an expert!      :pray: :)        

    Offline OHCA

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #834 on: August 08, 2017, 11:23:01 PM »
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  • Them's some fine lookin' trailers, mr. Ohcha. I'm just wishin' that the trailer park that me and them other flat earthers are livin' in looked as fine as that'un. Land sakes, why, they probly even has cable television! Hee Haw!
    I thought this was a pic of the one the aliens landed on.  But on closer inspection, probably not with dense trees and all.
    Cable TV?  What kind of trailer park would that be?

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #835 on: August 08, 2017, 11:24:16 PM »
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  • Here is a very nice flat-earth legend:

    THE EARTH ON TURTLE'S BACK                         

    Before Earth was here there was only water as far as one could see in all directions, with birds and animals swimming around in it. Up above in the clouds there was Skyland. In Skyland was a great and beautiful tree with four white roots stretching to the four sacred directions. Every kind of fruit and flower grew from its wide spreading branches. 

    The Chief of Skyland's young wife was expecting a child. One night she dreamt she saw the great tree uprooted. The next morning she told her husband her dream. "This is very sad," he said, "for it is a dream of great power and we must do all we can to make it come true." Then the chief called all the men together and told them they must uproot the tree. But the roots were so deep and strong they couldn't budge it. So the ancient chief himself wrapped his arms around the tree and strained and strained, until with one last great effort he uprooted it. Now there was a great hole where the tree's roots had been. The chief's wife came and leaned over to look down, holding the tip of one of the uprooted tree's branches to steady herself, Far below she thought she saw something glittering like water. Leaning out further she lost her balance and fell into the hole. Her hand slipped from the tip of the branch, leaving her only a handful of seeds as she fell. 

    Far, far below in the waters some of the animals looked up. "Someone is falling from the sky," said one. 

    "We must help her," said another. Then two Swans flew up and caught her between their wings, and brought her gently down to the water where the birds and animals were watching. 

    She is not like us," said one of the animals. "She doesn't have webbed feet. I don't think she can live in the water." "What shall we do?" said another of the water animals. 

    "I know," said one of the birds. "I have heard there is Earth far below the waters. If we dive down and bring up Earth she will have a place to stand. So the birds and animals tried to bring up Earth. First Duck dove far down beneath the surface, but he couldn't reach the bottom and floated back up. Then Beaver tried. He went even deeper, so deep that it was all dark, but he couldn't reach the bottom either. Then Loon tried and was gone a long, long time, but he too failed to bring up Earth. Soon it seemed that all had tried and failed. Then a small voice spoke. 

    "I will bring up Earth or die trying." They all looked to see who it was. It was little Muskrat. She dove down and swam and swam. She was not as strong and swift as the others, but she was determined. She went so deep that it was all dark, and still she swam deeper. Her lungs felt ready to burst, but she swam deeper still. At last, just as she was becoming unconscious, she grasped at the bottom with her little paw and floated upwards, almost dead. When the other animals saw her break the surface, they thought she had failed. Then they saw her right paw was held tightly shut. 

    "She has the Earth," they said. "Now where can we put it?" 

    "Put it on my back," said a deep voice. It was Great Turtle who had come up from the depths. They brought Muskrat over and placed her paw against his back. To this day there are marks at the back of Turtle's shell that were made by Muskrat's paw. The tiny bit of Earth fell on the back of Turtle. Almost immediately it began to grow and grow until it became the whole world. 

    Then the two Swans brought Sky Woman down. She stepped onto the new Earth and opened her hand, letting the seeds fall onto the bare soil. From the seeds the trees and grass and flowers sprang up. Life on Earth had begun. 


    Creation Story from the Onondaga Tribe, From Keepers of the Earth by Michael J. Caduto & Joseph Bruchac
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline OHCA

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #836 on: August 08, 2017, 11:27:49 PM »
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  • Yes, Neil has made a decision to fight this, but his approach as you say, is contradictory...on many levels. (Shameless pun)  The flat earth/sphere dichotomy is a huge clue to getting to the point of flat earth. We have great enemies who hate God and are intent making themselves God and enslaving us.  Yet so many "God fearing men" heartily believe the enemy's false notion of creation.  Belief in the devil's propaganda provides evil men tremendous power.  But evil only has that power if we freely give it away by believing lies rather than God, His Word, the Church, etc.  Flat earth incites the deepest of passions because we're talking about people's own little twisted world, in their own little twisted minds, who prefer a certain little twisted relationship with God based on their demonic world view. And they like it! Hence the vitriol you endure when you share the one thing they fear most: God's world, God's rules.  
    The true and Catholic view of our environment frees us, enlightens us, enables us to love God, worship Him with understanding, humility and awe. Not to mention, it helps protects us from becoming enslaved in a myriad of ways.  It seems to me that flat earth gives us the necessary grounding we need to connect to God and to trust Him even more.  It even provides a backdrop for understanding why mundane duty, maintaining simplicity, and being grounded, especially in truth, are so necessary and so good. A right understanding of our earth really does matter.  Ultimately, flat earth reflects God's Word rather than the globe which puts a spin on it (pun again).  God's firm, level playing-field foundation actually provides a physical basis for trusting His Word.  
    Well said--for a protestant preacher.

    Offline OHCA

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #837 on: August 08, 2017, 11:33:14 PM »
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  • I agree, except for the part where you mention about them preferring a certain twisted relationship with God based on a demonic world view. I mean, I think I understand what you're saying, but I would go a little easier on them, given that our schools (even traditional Catholic schools, probably) teach a heliocentric view, and it's what we've always been taught. It takes a certain leap of faith to question the shape of the earth, since our whole world basically doesn't accept a flat earth. I don't really blame them, in a sense. To go up against the status quo regarding a subject like this isn't easy or pleasant. It's frustrating to have to endure their vitrol, granted, but it might help us to learn to be more patient, too (at least for me).

    I try to take the example of how St. Bernadette dealt with the angry secular authorities who were against her because of the apparitions of the BVM - she told these authorities the truth, and wasn't above being a bit snarky at times. But she was not uncharitable. I'm not very good at following her example, because I often forget about it. But I try.
    I'm pretty much convinced that earth is geocentric--just not flat.

    Offline OHCA

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #838 on: August 08, 2017, 11:39:59 PM »
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  • None of the new analogies above make your case more plausible. I've already said why your view doesn't make sense. That hasn't changed.
    This is too funny!!  Give it up Neil--your idea that the earth is round just isn't plausible.  Meg has already told you why that just doesn't make sense.  Earth is still flat.  Now let's have a moment of silence for all of the poor drunk bastards who have stumbled off of the edge of the earth.  Silence while the numerous names, seemingly endless, are announced.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #839 on: August 09, 2017, 09:20:01 AM »
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  • This is too funny!!  Give it up Neil--your idea that the earth is round just isn't plausible.  Meg has already told you why that just doesn't make sense.  Earth is still flat.  Now let's have a moment of silence for all of the poor drunk bastards who have stumbled off of the edge of the earth.  Silence while the numerous names, seemingly endless, are announced.

    All of Neil's examples involve situations in which the subject cannot be seen with the naked eye over a great distance. However, these examples don't work, because we can clearly see the sun during daylight hours. I don't believe that the sun can possibly be 93 million miles away; otherwise, we wouldn't be able to see it clearly. And we would not be able to gain heat and light from it either. This sounds simplistic, I know. It doesn't have to be complicated.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29