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Author Topic: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat  (Read 223611 times)

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Offline happenby

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Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #630 on: May 14, 2017, 12:38:15 AM »
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  • .
    The Virgin of Guadalupe appeared on Tepeyac Hill in Mexico City in 1531.  This location has been determined to be in the geographical center of North and South America, and that is on a globe earth, with curvature, parallel lines of latitude, and non-parallel lines of longitude. But flat-earthers can't seem to understand that kind of thing, to their discredit.
    .
    Therefore it is most possible to determine whether Jerusalem is in the center of something, or not. But as far as that goes, any point on the surface of the earth could be considered the center of all the earth's surface. Again, flat-earthers will find that going right over their heads, like the moon and sun do.
    .
    The fact that the earth is a globe is in evidence all around us, if we will open our eyes and use our minds to think logically. But flat-earthers abhor logic and reason, because it challenges their sacred cow, a false god by the way. They're breaking the First Commandment!
    .
    Again, the same kind of argument that insists that your version of what *you think* somehow can't include flat earth. However, what you think IS, will not change what actually IS.  

    Not only is Jerusalem in the middle of the world according to Catholic teaching, it is also certain that the Church taught that there are no antipodes, which was widely accepted and promoted for a thousand years or more.

    The great authority of Augustine, and the cogency of his scriptural argument, held the Church firmly against the doctrine of the antipodes; all schools of interpretation were now agreed--the followers of the allegorical tendencies of Alexandria, the strictly literals exegetes of Syria, the more eclectic theologians of the West. For over a thousand years it was held in the Church, "always, everywhere, and by all," that there could not be human beings on the opposite sides of the earth, even if the earth had opposite sides; and, when attacked by gainsayers the great mass of true believers, from the fourth century to the fifteenth, simply used that opiate which had so soothing an effect on John Henry Newman in the nineteenth century--securus judicat orbis terrarum.

    pg 104 War Between Science and Theology…White


    Regarding Jerusalem in the center of the world:

    The book of Ezekiel speaks of Jerusalem as in the middle of the earth, and all other parts of the world as set around the holy city.  Throughout the "ages of faith" this was very generally accepted as the direct revelation from the Almighty regarding the earth's form.  St. Jerome, the greatest authority of the early Church upon the Bible, declared, on the strength of this utterance of the prophet, that Jerusalem could be nowhere but at the earth's center; in the ninth century Archbishop Rabanus Maurus reiterated the same argument; in the eleventh century Hugh of St. Victor gave to the doctrine another scriptural demonstration; and Poe Urban, in his great sermon at Clermont urging the Franks to the crusade, declared, "Jerusalem is the middle point of the earth"; in the thirteenth century and ecclesiastical writer much in vogue, the monk Caesarious of Heisterbach declared, "As the heart in the midst of the body, so is Jerusalem situated in the midst of our in habited earth,--so it was that Christ was crucified at the center of the earth."  

    Ezekiel 5:5 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: This is Jerusalem, which I have set in the center of the nations, with countries all around her.

    Ezekiel 38:12, the Jєωιѕн people are referred to as the people who live at the "center of the world." And actually, the literal Hebrew reads, "the navel of the world."


    Offline happenby

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #631 on: May 14, 2017, 12:39:33 AM »
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  • Waiting for answers on  Church teaching.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #632 on: May 14, 2017, 01:02:12 AM »
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  • Again, the same kind of argument that insists that your version of what *you think* somehow can't include flat earth. However, what you think IS, will not change what actually IS.  

    Not only is Jerusalem in the middle of the world according to Catholic teaching, it is also certain that the Church taught that there are no antipodes, which was widely accepted and promoted for a thousand years or more.

    •The great authority of Augustine, and the cogency of his scriptural argument, held the Church firmly against the doctrine of the antipodes; all schools of interpretation were now agreed--the followers of the allegorical tendencies of Alexandria, the strictly literals exegetes of Syria, the more eclectic theologians of the West. For over a thousand years it was held in the Church, "always, everywhere, and by all," that there could not be human beings on the opposite sides of the earth, even if the earth had opposite sides; and, when attacked by gainsayers the great mass of true believers, from the fourth century to the fifteenth, simply used that opiate which had so soothing an effect on John Henry Newman in the nineteenth century--securus judicat orbis terrarum.



    •pg 104 War Between Science and Theology…White




    Regarding Jerusalem in the center of the world:

    The book of Ezekiel speaks of Jerusalem as in the middle of the earth, and all other parts of the world as set around the holy city.  Throughout the "ages of faith" this was very generally accepted as the direct revelation from the Almighty regarding the earth's form.  St. Jerome, the greatest authority of the early Church upon the Bible, declared, on the strength of this utterance of the prophet, that Jerusalem could be nowhere but at the earth's center; in the ninth century Archbishop Rabanus Maurus reiterated the same argument; in the eleventh century Hugh of St. Victor gave to the doctrine another scriptural demonstration; and Poe Urban, in his great sermon at Clermont urging the Franks to the crusade, declared, "Jerusalem is the middle point of the earth"; in the thirteenth century and ecclesiastical writer much in vogue, the monk Caesarious of Heisterbach declared, "As the heart in the midst of the body, so is Jerusalem situated in the midst of our in habited earth,--so it was that Christ was crucified at the center of the earth."  

    Ezekiel 5:5 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: This is Jerusalem, which I have set in the center of the nations, with countries all around her.

    Ezekiel 38:12, the Jєωιѕн people are referred to as the people who live at the "center of the world." And actually, the literal Hebrew reads, "the navel of the world."
    "My, oh my.  So many words, so little said."

    :fryingpan:
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #633 on: May 14, 2017, 01:11:35 AM »
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  • .
    Here is a map of the world showing Jerusalem in the center:



    ...and here is another:

    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #634 on: May 14, 2017, 01:15:51 AM »
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  • Waiting for answers on Church teaching.
    .
    You're way late, my dear.  You can't change the subject that easily around here. Maybe that works for you at home, but this isn't your turf.
    .
    I have been waiting for 5 weeks for your answer on the angle between sun and moon.
    .
    So you go first. 
    .
    First you supply your response to my simple question, and then we can talk.
    .
    Alternatively, you can prove you're not interested in facts, by running away scared, again.
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #635 on: May 14, 2017, 01:18:03 AM »
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  • By the way,
    .
    I'm still waiting for any flat-earther to produce their measurement of the angle between the sun and moon at the hour of first or last quarter moon.
    .
    This is not "conjecture" or "misrepresentation" or "confusion and a consistently unscientific approach," but rather it is objective fact, which flat-earthers run from like the plague.
    .
    And they do so, complaining all the way!!
    .
    Same question, from which the flat-earthers run away like it's radioactive or something.
    .
    By the way, get your measurement just before the first quarter (will be in early evening) and just after the last quarter (will be in early morning), for best results.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #636 on: May 14, 2017, 01:51:26 AM »
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  • "My, oh my.  So many words, so little said."

    :fryingpan:
    Uh,  wrong.  The Church has spoken and you have nothing to say except to mock the messenger.  Proving once again, against the truth there is no argument. 

    Offline Meg

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #637 on: May 14, 2017, 08:28:16 AM »
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  • .
    The Virgin of Guadalupe appeared on Tepeyac Hill in Mexico City in 1531.  This location has been determined to be in the geographical center of North and South America, and that is on a globe earth, with curvature, parallel lines of latitude, and non-parallel lines of longitude. But flat-earthers can't seem to understand that kind of thing, to their discredit.
    .
    Therefore it is most possible to determine whether Jerusalem is in the center of something, or not. But as far as that goes, any point on the surface of the earth could be considered the center of all the earth's surface. Again, flat-earthers will find that going right over their heads, like the moon and sun do.
    .
    The fact that the earth is a globe is in evidence all around us, if we will open our eyes and use our minds to think logically. But flat-earthers abhor logic and reason, because it challenges their sacred cow, a false god by the way. They're breaking the First Commandment!
    .

    It's embarrassing to see your continual lack of charity toward those Catholics here who believe in a flat earth. Haven't you noticed that it's not getting you anywhere to continually treat flat-earthers as being really stupid, with continual put-downs? And now, you are saying that we are breaking the first commandment. That is going too far.

    I fail to see how the location of Our Lady of Guadalupe has anything to do with a flat earth.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Meg

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #638 on: May 14, 2017, 08:36:52 AM »
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  • .
    Here is a map of the world showing Jerusalem in the center:



    ...and here is another:



    What sort of earth do these images represent? Are you saying that the equator is the "center of the earth," on a globe? Is the equator commonly known in scientific terms as being the "center of the earth?"
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline happenby

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #639 on: May 14, 2017, 10:11:16 AM »
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  • What sort of earth do these images represent? Are you saying that the equator is the "center of the earth," on a globe? Is the equator commonly known in scientific terms as being the "center of the earth?"
    Come on,  now.  In the center on a globe is an oxymoron. 

    Offline happenby

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #640 on: May 14, 2017, 10:30:28 AM »
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  • Yes, he is trying to say the earth is a heart shaped ball and that it has a center.  :facepalm:


    Offline happenby

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #641 on: May 14, 2017, 03:45:40 PM »
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  • Irrefutable proof NASA fakes space and ISS. Totally busted! VR glitches tell all. 


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #642 on: May 14, 2017, 10:39:56 PM »
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  • Irrefutable proof? Don't make me laugh. Oh, wait. You already did.
    .
    Here is irrefutable proof for you:
    .
    Get out and measure the angle between the sun and the moon during the last quarter moon, which is coming up this coming Thursday, May 18th, at 5:35 pm in the west coast USA.

    There should be three measurements, one at around 11 am on Wednesday (because the moon sets at 11:26 am in the west), and a second one around 12 pm on Thursday (moon sets at 12:22 pm), and a third one around 1:00 pm on Friday (moon sets at 1:21 pm).
    .
    If you can only do one in the morning then that's better than nothing. Thursday morning and/or Friday morning would be great. The moon will be high in the sky when the sun rises, so measure the angle between the two, and post it here.
    .
    By measuring the angle between the sun and the moon at the quarter moon, you can observe the reality that moon phases provide for us to know.  Of course, flat-earthers don't want to know the truth, so they won't take the measurement.
    .
    You can prove me wrong by taking the measurement.
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #643 on: May 14, 2017, 10:47:47 PM »
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  • It's embarrassing to see your continual lack of charity toward those Catholics here who believe in a flat earth. Haven't you noticed that it's not getting you anywhere to continually treat flat-earthers as being really stupid, with continual put-downs? And now, you are saying that we are breaking the first commandment. That is going too far.

    I fail to see how the location of Our Lady of Guadalupe has anything to do with a flat earth.
    Flat-earthers don't need any help because they put themselves down. They embarrass themselves. They have shown interminably here on this thread alone that they are entirely unwilling to participate in a simple experiment (measuring the angle between the sun and the moon at quarter moon) and thereby reveal that they are not interested in the truth.
    .
    The location of the apparition of the Virgin of Guadalupe is mentioned because it has been found to be at the geographical center of north and south America. I was challenged to explain why Jerusalem can be at the center of the world, and I was giving an example of how some other place is at the center of the Americas. Maybe that's over your head, but that's par for the course.
    .
    It's hard to have a conversation with someone who refuses to think.
    .
    This is a discussion board, and the topic is a DEBATE in nature. If you can't cope with logic and direct statements then perhaps you ought to go read a soft, cushy thread that makes no demands on your intellect.
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #644 on: May 14, 2017, 10:57:54 PM »
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  • Uh,  wrong.  The Church has spoken and you have nothing to say except to mock the messenger.  Proving once again, against the truth there is no argument.
    "Uh, wrong?" I was quoting you. 
    .
    You are not the messenger of the Church.
    .
    The Church has not spoken on the subject of "flat earth." You just don't comprehend what you're reading. The shape of the world is not a matter for religious faith, just as it's not a spiritual matter to describe the electrical charge of an atom or Ohm's Law. So they're not in the Bible. The Church has not proclaimed any ruling on the shape of chromosomes, either.  Even though Our Lord began life in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary with the same shape of chromosomes that we have today, it is not a matter of faith for us to believe that the shape of chromosomes is one thing or another. It is a matter of scientific investigation. So too, the shape of the earth is a matter of scientific investigation. You can know the truth if you investigate scientifically, by taking the measurement.
    .
    If you are looking for the truth, take the measurement. 
    .
    But you are not looking for truth, are you. Because you refuse to do the experiment. Your actions speak for themselves.
    .
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