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Author Topic: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat  (Read 340435 times)

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Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #500 on: April 03, 2017, 07:20:35 AM »
The video you posted there has erroneous panels for each item, from beginning to end. It is a compendium of false premise, incorrect thinking, lack of reason, illogical conclusions and lies.

Do you want examples? It would take me hours to list them all.

Take minute 2, for instance. It says,

"As you travel Southwards [sic] from the North Pole, Polaris and its surrounding stars decline in the sky due to perspective, so at the North Pole Polaris is situated directly 90 degrees above your head, but at the mid-Northern [sic] latitudes (like here) [Where?] it's about 45+/- degrees."

Nowhere in the video does it explain where "here" is, so perhaps he means the 45th parallel north. I don't know. If so, that would put him somewhere around the southern border of Canada, approximately. But we can't be sure since he doesn't really say.

Ambiguity, like at Vatican II, is the rule of the day with flat-earthers.

The term "southwards" needs no capitalization, but curiously for a flat-earther, most of whom deny the very existence of the south direction, not only is it referred to, it is Capitalized. Odd. Perhaps this particular flat-earther denies south sometimes when it's a difficulty but refers to it at other times, like now, when it's convenient. I don't know if he does or not because flat-earthers are very difficult to keep track of with their opportune inconsistencies. But I digress.

While it's true that the stars in the sky seem to change position due to perspective, this change is extremely small compared to the constant and predictable change that occurs due to the curvature of the earth, which is a reasonably constant curve, very close to circular in all directions. For our purposes the amount of variation is negligible so we can say it is entirely circular. For each degree of movement from the north terrestrial pole toward the equator (and ultimately the south pole), the north star, Polaris, moves just one degree downward toward the north pole. One terrestrial degree is equivalent to 60 nautical miles. So for the first 10 degrees south from the north pole, Polaris moves 10 degrees downward, and for the next 10 degrees south on the earth's surface, Polaris moves another 10 degrees downward. By the time one arrives at the equator, which is 90 degrees from the north pole, Polaris has moved just 90 degrees downward, which is why it is then found at the horizon line. This is entirely explained by the curvature of the earth, and not by perspective, because if it were perspective, Polaris would only have moved perhaps one degree, since it is at such a great distance from earth. Flat-earthers claim that the distance to Polaris is only a few thousand miles in order to perpetrate this falsehood that the movement of Polaris is entirely due to perspective.

But just as the enormously greater distance from earth to the sun compared to distance from earth to the moon is easily demonstrated by a simple observation you can make the day after tomorrow, April 3rd, 2017, so too the distance to Polaris is easily demonstrated to be many many times the distance to the sun. In fact it is thousands of times further to Polaris than it is to the sun from earth. Consequently, the light rays from Polaris reaching earth are effectively presumed (and rightly so) to be parallel lines. Again, flat-earthers deny this and claim they are far from parallel, but that only complicates their model for other reasons, leading them to additional self-contradictions.

In only 27 more seconds (2:27) the video shows a very odd and self-contradictory drawing that points to the ground with an arrow "land horizon" and then draws a line to the right at 30 degrees inclination to a place on the right side labeled "sky horizon." A note under this triangle says, "everything in the dark section is behind the horizon." There is no explanation given for why something obviously straight ahead of the viewer would be "behind the horizon." What is being done here is an attempt to set up a false premise. The man figure on the left side as we all know, is a man standing on the ground, which we can do, and the flat line under his feet accurately describes the flat ground under our feet.  When we look to the right or to the left or straight ahead or behind us, we can see to the horizon and we can see the ground going to the horizon. There is no such thing as a "dark section (...) behind the horizon" that we can't see. By insinuating this illogical error, the author is hoping a gullible viewer will buy into his lie so that he can build more erroneous thinking on top of it. Our limitations on seeing things far away is aided by telescopes which bring into view things we would not be able to see without them. An improvement on the telescope is binoculars which give us the ability to see relative distance of things far away, even if they appear to be more flattened-out than they do when we are physically up close to them. If the author were referring to things that we could see if we had a telescope, he did not say that, and as you will find out later, that cannot be what he's talking about because he really wants the viewer to believe that there are things straight ahead of our viewing angle that we are incapable of seeing because they're in the "dark section behind the horizon," whatever that means.


That's one part of the first two and a half minutes of inaccuracies, half-truths and total errors.

Almost all of what you just said is explained by your different notion of what perspective is.
For us it is much greater.

Explanations for the stars are just theories. Based on the presumption that the earth is flat. Since you don't share that presumption, your attempts to point out inaccuracies are very strange and inadequate. I for one, don't agree with the point made in the video that the stars could be on a flat disc. I believe there is a dome.

As an aside, your attempt to make me look stupid by pointing out grammatical mistakes, will only backfire against you, in the minds of reasonable people. You'd be better off, for your own sake, not going down that route.

As for your criticisms of the website, there is no substance to them. You just attack the people and try to ridicule it. Focus on the issues please.

For people just tuning in now, Neils Modus Operandi is to ignore when he is shown up as wrong. Psychologically, you have been programmed to accept that the earth is round and that flat earthism is stupid. Neil plays on that prejudice by making us, at all costs, appear to be stupid, and muddying the waters with silly objections, which aren't to the point.

Honest people reading; don't fall for this trickery. http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/

Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #501 on: April 03, 2017, 02:14:15 PM »
Well, I'm here looking east at 12:11 pm PDT and I can't see the moon yet. Too much haze on the horizon, won't be able to see it until it rises above the haze.

But, what is the point? What am I supposed to be looking for, Neil, you still haven't responded?


Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #502 on: April 03, 2017, 04:56:12 PM »
Try this one out  

The earth is fixed
The earth does not spin, move, tilt  wabble03/04/2017

The sun is only a couple thousand miles away...
The sun and moon travel around the earth
The universe does it works around the earth

God is mysterious

Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #503 on: April 03, 2017, 07:56:29 PM »
So, cut to the chase: what is the experiment?

I believe the moon is a sphere and reflects light from the sun, and the change in position of the moon's shadow is due to perspective, as it circuits above the flat earth plane.

According to timeanddate.com my moonrise time tomorrow is 11:48 AM. I'm on Pacific time.

For Los Angeles, moonrise is at 12:12 PM.

https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/usa/los-angeles

What do you want to see?

I may not be able to view it right at rise, if it is a hazy day tomorrow.
Moonrise is not key. The point is, just measure the angle between your viewline of the moon and your viewline of the sun today before the sun goes down. 

I just did it, later than I had hoped to do, and I got 93 degrees. 

The video I posted describes one method, of using a tripod and a digital protractor, with a ridge of paper taped to the protractor leg pointing at the sun, so you don't have to look at the sun -- NEVER LOOK DIRECTLY AT THE SUN.


The other leg is aligned by eye to point at the moon, and your reading on the display is the angle between the two lines of sight. 

__________________________________________________

I used a flat piece of rigid styrofoam about 18 x 30 in., and I taped a straight rigid tube to it while the foam board was taped to a picnic table and tilted to where the sun was shining directly through the straw. I could estimate the angle of the foam by seeing at what point the sunny side turns to shadow. Then I adjusted the foam board so that the other tube could be taped to its flat surface while pointing at the moon. This tube was a bit larger so I could look through it and see the moon inside like a gunsight. I traced the two tubes' attachment to the foam board and then measured the angle between them with a protractor, and I got 93 degrees. 

My measurement was about 5-1/3 hours after the quarter moon is listed on the Old Farmer's Almanac website (see above) for my area -- 11:40 am. 

As of right now, you still have an hour or more to measure this today, but if you're in the Eastern USA you'll have to wait until tomorrow, or two more weeks for the last quarter moon. 

Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #504 on: April 03, 2017, 08:05:58 PM »
Well, I'm here looking east at 12:11 pm PDT and I can't see the moon yet. Too much haze on the horizon, won't be able to see it until it rises above the haze.

But, what is the point? What am I supposed to be looking for, Neil, you still haven't responded?
Sorry for taking so long. You can still do this today, but your measurement will be a bit off. The moon moves across the sky at a rate different from the sun's so each day it changes significantly. 
I posted above what to do. You can make up your own method, but the point is to set up a plane, or a flat surface, or a pivoting device, which allows you to point it at the moon and at the sun at the same time. 
Mark the two lines of sight from your spot on the ground to the moon and your spot to the sun. DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT THE SUN.
Then measure the angle between the two lines of sight: one to the moon, the other to the sun. Take note of the TIME it is when you measure this. For me it was 5:00 pm.