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Author Topic: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat  (Read 340661 times)

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50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #345 on: March 12, 2017, 01:12:58 PM »
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Quote from: happenby
The Church teaches infallibly that heliocentrism, the notion that earth moves and sun is stationary, IS FALSE and contrary to the Faith. The Church also teaches that the sun, moon and stars reside inside a visible firmament that is laid out as a firm boundary, like a tent, between heaven and earth.  


The Church teaches no such thing.  The Church has for generations taught heliocentrism in Her parish schools. This would not happen if it were against Catholic teaching.


Here's some quotes to chew on....
http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t60-pertinent-quotes-from-fathers-and-tradition

50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #346 on: March 12, 2017, 03:43:39 PM »
Quote from: FlatEarthInquisitor
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Quote from: happenby
The Church teaches infallibly that heliocentrism, the notion that earth moves and sun is stationary, IS FALSE and contrary to the Faith. The Church also teaches that the sun, moon and stars reside inside a visible firmament that is laid out as a firm boundary, like a tent, between heaven and earth.  


The Church teaches no such thing.  The Church has for generations taught heliocentrism in Her parish schools. This would not happen if it were against Catholic teaching.


Here's some quotes to chew on....
http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t60-pertinent-quotes-from-fathers-and-tradition


I not only chewed on them, I blew bubbles.

None of it was from the magisterium. A disciplinary prohibition from the Holy Office is not the magisterium. That is why it says, "the present decree respectively prohibits, condemns, and suspends all."

Same problem the Feeneyites have, not noticing that a divine Church cannot allow something inherently dangerous to faith, universally, and for generations, which the Church has, as previously mentioned.


50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #347 on: March 12, 2017, 03:53:55 PM »
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Quote from: happenby
The Church teaches infallibly that heliocentrism, the notion that earth moves and sun is stationary, IS FALSE and contrary to the Faith. The Church also teaches that the sun, moon and stars reside inside a visible firmament that is laid out as a firm boundary, like a tent, between heaven and earth.  


The Church teaches no such thing.  The Church has for generations taught heliocentrism in Her parish schools. This would not happen if it were against Catholic teaching.


We better not get into this discussion on this thread Bumphy, but you deserve an answer to your post.

in 1613 Galileo was asserting heliocentrism was a proven scientific fact and that the references to a moving sun and stars in Scripture were not literal but merely reflected the illusion of motion as man sees it. All the Church Fathers had interpreted the Scriptures as literally revealing a fixed earth and moving sun, moon and stars. Now at the Council of Trent it decreed that the unanimous interpretation of the Fathers cannot be contradicted and anybody doing so had to be stopped. Thus the Church of 1616 had to settle the matter.

In 1616 Pope Paul V defined that the Scriptures reveal a geocentric world and to deny this was formal heresy. Churchmen decided the issue there and then, there cannot be proof for that would make scripture false, nor can there ever be proof found for that again would make scripture reveal in error. The FAITH of these churchmen decided the matter.

This decree was made universal and declared absolute in 1633 by Pope Urban VIII. As it happened when examined all now agree Galileo had no such proof.

By 1700, other philosophers like Newton were claiming they had the proof for heliocentrism. Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ then took over the dictates of science and convinced many that proofs had been found. Some high officials in the Church started to believe Pope Paul V and Urban VIII has made a disasterous mistake and this began what can only be described as the FIRST MODERNIST U-TURN IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

By 1835, most members of the Holy Office had convinced the pope to allow heliocentrism to be accepted by the flock, while others advised him it was an irreversible decree and that no proof for heliocentrism actually existed. Such was the pressure from within and from without to allow heliocentric books He did this,  BUT, and I quote "without comment." In other words it was all done without the abrogation of the 1616 decree. In more words, the popes dared not address or contradict the 1616 decree and say it was wrong, simply ignored it and hoped it would disappear into oblivion.

And it did. Search as much as you like and whereas you will find in Catholic books every Holy Office decree on this and that but the only one that decreed an error formal heresy IS MISSING.

Given the SUBJECT MATTER of the heresy was not THEOLOGICAL it disappeared, and a thousand books assured all Catholics that the 1616 decree was reversible and that the matter was ended, a once-off mistake. But the enemies of the Church saw their chance and let all know that one such mistake proves the Catholic Church is not protected from error by their God. Even today these book are everywhere. Why even Catholic theologians like Hans Kung use this case to argue the Catholic Church is NOT INFALLIBLE. (I read Pope Francis is to have a chat with him about this)

In 1887 however a scientific experiment showed the earth does not move. This sent scientists wild with horror and it took 17 years to get heliocentrism back as a POSSIBILITY. Albert Einstein was used to aschieve this by saying, Yes, geocentrism is a scientific possibility, but because of relativity so is heliocentrism.

So, one hundred years ago science KNEW the 1616 decree was not falsified, that to be at one with science one had to accept geocentrism could well the real order of the universe. So, did ANYONE in the Church at that time, from Pope to Catholic scientist  consider the U-turn had been the disasterous mistake? You bet your life they did but that U-turn kept the world from laughing at a Church that had to believe in the geocentric POSSIBILITY.

Of course Bumphry they didn't dare stop teaching heliocentrism in Church and State, to you and me. Indeed the only way to have to avoid admitting the U-turn mistake was to actually go along with all scientific theories saying of course God did it that way. At Vatican II it became so important to keep all Catholics ignorant heliocentrists that they put in its Gaudium et Spes a criticism of the geocentric popes and theologians of 1616 and 1633.

So, there you are bumphry, hard to believe isn't it. The Church that is supposed to teach the truth of faith and to prevent false philosophy among its flock wouldn't touch the 1616 decree with a long pole. It would make them look like idiots in a world 400 years now under the propaganda that the earth moves around the sun and to adhere to the 1616 decree of faioth would make them look like idiots in this rotten world. Yes, intellectual pride is far more important now than faith in the Scriptures.



50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #348 on: March 12, 2017, 04:23:54 PM »
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Quote from: FlatEarthInquisitor
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Quote from: happenby
The Church teaches infallibly that heliocentrism, the notion that earth moves and sun is stationary, IS FALSE and contrary to the Faith. The Church also teaches that the sun, moon and stars reside inside a visible firmament that is laid out as a firm boundary, like a tent, between heaven and earth.  


The Church teaches no such thing.  The Church has for generations taught heliocentrism in Her parish schools. This would not happen if it were against Catholic teaching.


Here's some quotes to chew on....
http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t60-pertinent-quotes-from-fathers-and-tradition


I not only chewed on them, I blew bubbles.

None of it was from the magisterium. A disciplinary prohibition from the Holy Office is not the magisterium. That is why it says, "the present decree respectively prohibits, condemns, and suspends all."

Same problem the Feeneyites have, not noticing that a divine Church cannot allow something inherently dangerous to faith, universally, and for generations, which the Church has, as previously mentioned.


You should not compare this to the Feeneyites. You know that it not the same.

Do you understand the purpose of an infallible decree is? It is so the faithful can be under no illusion on a certain point. But it does not mean that there are other points which it has not clarified which can be part of the faith.

I think you should be careful in coming down too hard on this, because it may come back to bite you someday. Most especially because you have virtually nothing from the Holy office or the Fathers of the church in favour of globalism.

Also, your lack of humility in face of these quotes is astonishing.

But you cannot ultimately win especially because scientifically you are wrong about the globe earth.

Cassini's post was interesting, but it should be borne in mind that he is clearly (you can read a list of his posts to confirm) not a resistance Catholic.

On a separate note, here is a interesting video:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/p5asOJGkCQI[/youtube]

50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #349 on: March 12, 2017, 08:42:52 PM »
Quote from: BumphreyHogart
Quote from: happenby
The Church teaches infallibly that heliocentrism, the notion that earth moves and sun is stationary, IS FALSE and contrary to the Faith. The Church also teaches that the sun, moon and stars reside inside a visible firmament that is laid out as a firm boundary, like a tent, between heaven and earth.  


The Church teaches no such thing.  The Church has for generations taught heliocentrism in Her parish schools. This would not happen if it were against Catholic teaching.


 :facepalm:

Poor Bumphrey Hogart. He has just arrived and thinks he's going to go a few rounds against happenby.

Good luck, pal.