Quote from: Matto

I have a question for the flat earthers. I have been thinking about this and it still does not make sense to me. Flat earthers say that when ships or islands or mountains or anything else appears to sink below the horizon it is only an illusion and if you look with a telescope the object can be seen. But does it work the same way with the sun? When the sun seems to sink below the horizon is it also an illusion and if you look for the sun with a telescope, can you see the sun like they say you can see the boats and islands and mountains when they sink below the horizon?

Don't expect a straight answer from them. They never give one, rather they'll post a link to a video and tell you to watch it or they'll post a borderline facetious illustration of a false premise in which they base their arguments. I've wondered if there is some demonic element with this movement. The people say the same things and they're zealous for it.

It's a pattern with these people. I've, also, noticed a lot of them are women, which isn't really a surprise because they're more prone to emotional attachments to falsehoods. This might be indicative of the their personal or home life being unfulfilling in some way, therefore, they compensate by emotionally investing into a sensational theory. This sensational theory is their "husband" or "family". They defend the sensational like they'd (suppose to) defend their child's or husband's character.  

I just want to draw attention to this post. You are really starting to cross a line here, and it is clear you are just trolling. Your questions have been answered, and you are resorting to personal insults, so please get lost.

Look at you, FlatTard, demanding answers to questions after you never answered my questions, instead you posted links to frauds (pilots / submarine operators) filling a niche of the sensational to sell books and speeches.

Let us look up one of the synonyms to the word "circle". One synonym is "GLOBE", but nowhere is the word "flat" to be found.

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/circle

You and the other FlatTards ignore the following that I stated because it exposes the fallacy of your positions:

Regarding Our Lady's warning about earthquakes to come, she say's "the EARTH's GLOBE will have convulsions and earthquakes." It makes absolutely no sense for FlatTards to refer to the sky (which is a "globe" according to them) as having earthquakes when, according to their "flat earth" theory, these "half globes" represent the sky above the earth and the domain, which consists of water or dust, below the earth's land mass and navigable waters, respectively.

In other words, these FlatTards are saying there will be earthquakes in the sky according to Our Lady. This is preposterous.

Our Lady is referring to the earth that we can see and upon that we physically live. It will have convulsions and earthquakes. She calls this land mass "the earth's globe".

Croix de Fer, while enjoying his use of the pejorative "tard," is demonstrating his own mental deficiencies.

He clearly does not understand the difference between a dictionary and a thesaurus and is having a really hard time with the definition of the word circle and compass. I'm sorry God's Word is so disappointing to you, Croix.

And what is this earthquake in the sky nonsense you keep babbling on about? No FE'er has said such a thing. You really need help.

It is always a strange thing to me when I see people who react like they are SOOOOO personally offended at the idea the earth is a flat disc as described in the Bible. You really have to be a special snowflake to be angry about God's design not conforming to what the atheist scientists taught you.

Quote from: Croix de Fer

Look at you, FlatTard, demanding answers to questions after you never answered my questions, instead you posted links to frauds (pilots / submarine operators) filling a niche of the sensational to sell books and speeches.

Let us look up one of the synonyms to the word "circle". One synonym is "GLOBE", but nowhere is the word "flat" to be found.

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/circle

You and the other FlatTards ignore the following that I stated because it exposes the fallacy of your positions:

Regarding Our Lady's warning about earthquakes to come, she say's "the EARTH's GLOBE will have convulsions and earthquakes." It makes absolutely no sense for FlatTards to refer to the sky (which is a "globe" according to them) as having earthquakes when, according to their "flat earth" theory, these "half globes" represent the sky above the earth and the domain, which consists of water or dust, below the earth's land mass and navigable waters, respectively.

In other words, these FlatTards are saying there will be earthquakes in the sky according to Our Lady. This is preposterous.

Our Lady is referring to the earth that we can see and upon that we physically live. It will have convulsions and earthquakes. She calls this land mass "the earth's globe".

He clearly does not understand the difference between a dictionary and a thesaurus and is having a really hard time with the definition of the word circle and compass.

So why does the thesaurus have "globe" as a synonym of "circle", but the word "flat" isn't mentioned? Is it because when a person looks at a circle, it appears round, just like the earth is round? Maybe this is what the Bible writers were conveying?  :scratchchin:

The word "flat" is a very simple word and concept to describe an object. Surely, the word existed in the Hebrew and Koine Greek language, so why didn't the Bible writers use it to describe the shape of the earth?  

I'm sorry God's Word is so disappointing to you, Croix.

So you're really saying you're happy that Satan's lies made you addicted to the sensational?  :shocked:

And what is this earthquake in the sky nonsense you keep babbling on about? No FE'er has said such a thing. You really need help.

According to FlatTardology, the message by Our Lady of La Salette states that the sky will have earthquakes, which is premised on your belief that the only (half) globe is the sky above the "flat" earth. Did you go to the Bozo School of Science or Theology?  

So, which direction did Jesus rise?  The globe is a contradiction and denies all truth.  

So here we bring in the theology of Christ's ascention and heaven to support a flat earth. It restricts God to a flat-earth theology and heaven to a place that has to be above the earth.

A global earth has heaven outside the physical universe, This gives heaven an infinite demention far more fitting to an Omnipotent Maker.

As for theology and tradition, where is there a flat earth in Catholic tradition developed throughout the ages? The sacrted doctrine of geocentrism has always been global. Andrew White tells us:

'Having thus come from antiquity into the Christian world, St Clement of Alexandria demonstrated that the altar in the Jєωιѕн Tabernacle was “a symbol of the earth placed in the middle of the universe:” nothing more was needed; the geocentric theory was fully adopted by the Church and universally held to agree with the letter and spirit of Scripture.'

'Three great men mainly reared this structure. First was the unknown who gave to the world the treatises ascribed to Dionysius the Areopagite. It was unhesitatingly believed that these were the work of St Paul’s Athenian convert, and therefore virtually of St Paul himself.'

‘The next of these three great theologians was Peter Lombard, Professor at the University of Paris. About the middle of the twelfth century he gave forth his collection of Sentences, or statements by the Fathers, and this remained until the end of the Middle Ages the universal manual of theology.'

‘The great triad of thinkers culminated in St Thomas Aquinas – the sainted theologian, the glory of the mediaeval Church, the ‘Angelic Doctor,’ the most marvellous intellect; he to whom it was believed that an image of the crucified had spoken words praising his writings. '

 ‘Thus was the vast system developed by these three leaders of mediaeval thought; and now came the man who wrought it yet more deeply into European belief, the poet divinely inspired who made the system part of the world’s life. Pictured by Dante [in The Divine Comedy], the empyrean and the concentric heavens, paradise, purgatory, and hell, were seen by all;

‘Let us look into this vast creation – the highest achievement of theology – somewhat more closely. Its first feature shows a development out of earlier theological ideas. The earth is no longer a flat plain enclosed by four walls and solidly vaulted above, as theologians of previous centuries had believed it [sic], under the inspiration of Cosmas [Indicopleustes]; it is no longer a mere flat disk, with sun, moon, and stars hung up to give it light, as the earlier cathedral sculptors had figured it; it has become a globe at the centre of the universe.'

Then of course was the global geocentrism of St Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621) in his 1614 book De Ascensione Mentis in Deum - The Mind’s Ascent to God by the Ladder of Created Things'

Finally an interesting revelation of a global earth: It comes from the private revelations from heaven to Sister Mary of Jesus, better known as Mary of Agreda (1602-1665). The following insights, dictated to her, she said, by the Virgin Mary herself in 1637. Her three volume work is entitled; ‘The Mystical City of God’ or ‘The Divine History and Life of the Virgin Mother of God.’ These revelations to Sister Mary, whose body lies incorrupt in the Agreda Franciscan Monastery in Spain, have received approbations from many popes throughout history as a mode of greater understanding of the Catholic faith completely in line with traditional Church teaching.  

QUOTE: '…. God created the earth co-jointly with the heavens in order to call into existence hell in its centre; for, at the instant of its creation, there were left in the interior of that globe, spacious and wide cavities, suitable for hell, purgatory and limbo. And in hell was created at the same time material fire and other requisites, which now serve for the punishment of the damned.'

A circle is not a globe.

Quote from: Truth is Eternal

Croix de Fer, repeat after me.

This is a CIRCLE.


This is a GLOBE.

AMEN.

He still is not capable of understanding the difference between a ball and a circle.

Quote from: happenby

So, which direction did Jesus rise?  The globe is a contradiction and denies all truth.  

So here we bring in the theology of Christ's ascention and heaven to support a flat earth. It restricts God to a flat-earth theology and heaven to a place that has to be above the earth.

Heaven is, de fide, above the earth and hell is below it. That is binding under pain of mortal sin. Heaven is not "out" in all directions at 360 degrees. Get it right.

I have a question for the flat earthers. I have been thinking about this and it still does not make sense to me. Flat earthers say that when ships or islands or mountains or anything else appears to sink below the horizon it is only an illusion and if you look with a telescope the object can be seen. But does it work the same way with the sun? When the sun seems to sink below the horizon is it also an illusion and if you look for the sun with a telescope, can you see the sun like they say you can see the boats and islands and mountains when they sink below the horizon?

The sun is subject to perspective issues as anything on the ground.  However, the perspective itself does change.  The sun leaves plenty of evidence it moves over a flat earth when it leaves a trail of light on the ocean from the shore at sunset which is traceable back to the sun, something impossible if earth were a globe because light doesn't bend.

Quote from: happenby

So, which direction did Jesus rise?  The globe is a contradiction and denies all truth.  

This is another post that went unanswered. So, let me do that.

Sorry the illustration with this post did not reappear here, I am unable to post pioctures. It depicts man on a global earth as though it would mean the only place he could stand upright is on top of the north pole. Everywhere else he would be standing sideways at different angles until he is standing upside down at the south pole.

Of all the posts arguing against a global earth this one needs to be exposed for what it is, bringing the debate down to the level of absurdity, and submitting a dogma of the faith to this asbsurdity. Better we separate the two for simplicity.

Now unless flaterarthers argue the moon, sun and planets are also flat, with their discs pointing towards the earth at all times, then they must take the moon and Mars as globes. This being so, if man were to get to the moon, and land probes on Mars, which I accept as true happenings, then the same nonsense would apply. Only at the top, wherever that might be on the moon and Mars, would a man or machine be able to stand upright.

“For great is the power of God alone, and he is honoured by the humble. Seek not the things that are too high for thee, and search not into things above thy ability: but the things that God hath commanded thee, think on them always, and in many of his works be not curious. For it is not necessary for thee to see with thy eyes those things that are hid. In unnecessary matters be not over curious, and in many of his works thou shalt not be inquisitive. For many things are shewn to thee above the understanding of men. And the suspicion of them hath deceived man, and hath detained their minds in vanity.” (Ecclus 3:21-26).

To understand how we have the sky above and earth below everywhere on global earth is beyond human reasoning. We call this mystery 'gravity' and actually believe we understand how it works, but in fact it is an ongoing act of God.

To say science understands the mystery of ‘gravity’ is ignorant or deceit for no one other than God ‘understands’ what we call ‘gravity.’ We know the need for and effects of ‘gravity’ on earth, and indeed on the surface of every other cosmic body, but can mere human reason really comprehend the mystery of gravity? Given, for example, that if we view the earth from space, as man can do now, we find it surrounded by nothing; its surface covered with ‘unattached’ things, half ‘upside-down’ relative to the other half. This being so, we can ask, how is it that on this same globe everybody on its surface has the sky above and the earth below. Is such a phenomenon not beyond human understanding? Let us put it this way. Here we are in the space shuttle, heading for global earth. Now, no matter where we head for, even if it is a place right on the bottom of the globe as we head towards it, somehow, by the time we land, we end up the same way, the sky is always overhead, and the earth is always below. When does the ‘head-under-heels twist’ happen, we ask? If a fly landed on the same place on a light bulb, it would find itself ‘upside down,’ yet the same does not occur when the bulbs are cosmic bodies. How does this happen? ‘It is all because of gravity’ we are told, and thank God for it we say, because without it we would all be in one terrible incoherent state of chaos.

In fact, the sun and moon faces are always facing toward earth.  We never see the backside of either.  

Gravity has long been questioned by scientists and has many contradictions science fails to address.

"You might wonder why a string theorist is interested in Newton’s equations. After all Newton was overturned a century ago by Einstein, who explained gravity as warps in the geometry of space-time, and who some theorists think could be overturned in turn by string theorists.
Those exploding black holes (at least in theory — none has ever been observed) lit up a new strangeness of nature. Black holes, in effect, are holograms — like the 3-D images you see on bank cards."
http://www.greenexplored.com/2010/07/gravity-debunked-by-thermodynamics.html

The unfolding story of gravity is like the emperor’s new clothes.
“We’ve known for a long time gravity doesn’t exist,” Dr. Verlinde said, “It’s time to yell it.”

The Encyclopedia Britannica tells us that “ The Law of Gravitation is unique among the laws of nature, not only for its wide generality, taking the whole universe into its scope, but in the fact that, so far as is yet known, it is absolutely unmodified by any condition or cause whatever.”
Reduced to simplicity, gravitation is said to be “That which attracts every thing toward every other thing.” That does not tell us much ; and yet the little it does tell us is not true; for a thoughtful observer knows very well that everything is not attracted towards every other thing. . . The definition implies that it is a force  but it does not say so, for that phrase “ mutual action ” is ambiguous, and not at all convincing.

Newton: ‘Allow us, without proof, which is impossible, the existence of two universal forces –centrifugal and centripetal, or attraction and repulsion, and we will construct a theory which shall explain all the leading phenomena and mysteries of Nature.’  

Gravity is a scam, unproven, unreasonable, untenable.  How can something draw all objects to itself and at the same time fail to do so all the time?  The idea of antipodes, people that walk upside down on one side of the earth as opposed to others is condemned by the Church:

The great authority of Augustine, and the cogency of his scriptural argument, held the Church firmly against the doctrine of the antipodes; all schools of interpretation were now agreed--the followers of the allegorical tendencies of Alexandria, the strictly literals exegetes of Syria, the more eclectic theologians of the West. For over a thousand years it was held in the Church, "always, everywhere, and by all," that there could not be human beings on the opposite sides of the earth, even if the earth had opposite sides; and, when attacked by gainsayers the great mass of true believers, from the fourth century to the fifteenth, simply used that opiate which had so soothing an effect on John Henry Newman in the nineteenth century--securus judicat orbis terrarum.  (the secure judgement of the whole world)
pg 104  A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom  --White

Bishop Isidore of Seville (560-636) taught in his widely read encyclopedia, The etymologies, that the earth was round.  While some writers have thought he referred to a spherical Earth, this and other writings make it clear that he considered the earth to be a disk of wheel shaped.  Isidore did not admit the possibility of people dwelling at the antipodes, considering them as legendary, and noting that there was no evidence for their existence.  The Esoteric Codex: Dynamics of the Celestial Spheres

At the very least, these (and I got plenty more) statements and proofs bear serious weight and show the Church maintains the literal interpretation of scriptural flat earth. Catholics should not summarily dismiss these things when their understanding of some of the dynamics of the earth do not add up for them.