Author Topic: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat  (Read 39955 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
« Reply #1080 on: November 16, 2017, 02:28:54 PM »
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    Tardplorable managed to last a whopping 12 weeks! Not a bad run.
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    Tradplorable has been banned.
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    (His banning had nothing to do with his flat-earthism, though.)
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    Unfortunately for him and for all flat-earthism, he was never able to answer the basic questions.
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    He gave responses but they did not answer the questions. His answers were persistently evasive.
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    He was openly disrespectful of opposing views and made no attempt to patiently discuss objective reality, which BTW is not unrelated to why he was eventually banned because he disrespected the Moderator too, apparently.
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    So anyone who is willing to pick up where Tardplorable left off, be my guest. 
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    I suspect Tardplorable is the owner of the unidentified voice in Fr. Pfeieffer's video, the voice that hurls unreasonable objections from the audience which Fr. Pfeiffer embarrassingly tolerates and for whatever reason does not adequately address with his responses. Fr. actually allows this heckler to steer the course of his presentation which is rather painful to watch. 
    .
    I admire Fr. Pfeiffer's willingness to take on the challenge of discussing the concept of flat-earthism, and I think he does a good job on a basic level -- he appears to have done some important research on the history of the Church in this regard -- but he does not adequately apply nor recognize the very present and real means available to everyone in forming a solid understanding of our physical environment otherwise known as the observable universe.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1081 on: November 16, 2017, 03:16:07 PM »
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    The earth's magnetic field is constantly changing. In the past, variation from year to year has been not so great so as to make estimates of location unreliable from place to place worldwide, and such practices as land surveying and navigation at sea have been able to use updated maps for currently reliable data. In recent years, however, the magnetic poles (called dip poles) of the earth have been moving more quickly such that services and trades that rely on currently updated locations of the dip poles have had to obtain more frequent assessment and updates.
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    Observed north dip poles during 1831 - 2007 are yellow squares. 
    Modeled pole locations from 1590 to 2020 are circles progressing from blue to yellow.
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    [Obviously, the locations for 2020, 2019, 2018 and 2017 are estimates. This present data is current as of 2015.]
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    Magnetic poles are defined in different ways. They are commonly understood as positions on the Earth's surface where the geomagnetic field is vertical (i.e., perpendicular) to the ellipsoid. These north and south positions, called dip poles, do not need to be (and are not currently) antipodal. In principle the dip poles can be found by conducting a magnetic survey to determine where the field is vertical. Other definitions of geomagnetic poles depend on the way the poles are computed from a geomagnetic model. In practice the geomagnetic field is vertical on oval-shaped loci traced on a daily basis, with considerable variation from one day to the next.
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    It has been long understood that dip poles migrate over time. In 1831, James Clark Ross located the north dip pole position in northern Canada. Natural Resources Canada (NRCan) tracked the North Magnetic Pole, which is slowly drifting across the Canadian Arctic, by periodically carrying out magnetic surveys to reestablish the Pole's location from 1948 to 1994. An international collaboration, led by a French fundraising association, Poly-Arctique, and involving NRCan, Institut de Physique du Globe de Paris and Bureau de Recherche Geologique et Miniere, added two locations of the North Magnetic Pole in 2001 and 2007. The most recent survey determined that the Pole is moving approximately north-northwest at 55 km per year.
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    Notice on the diagram provided, the last estimated location (a yellow dot) is for 2020 (count the yellow dots from where it says "2007" toward the right where they end) -- it is heading in a direction west-southwest. The yellow dot for 2018 is the spot where the projected movement is due west. (You can see that because that is the place where the line of yellow dots is perpendiular to the meridian, a faint grey line). These last 4 yellow dots are estimates. We will have to wait for more recent updated information.
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    The most recent survey (as of 2015 is all this data shown) has the movement "approximately north-northwest" but since it is so close to the axial north pole (true north) its projected movement takes it to a directly due west direction ( 2018 ), and if that trend continues in subsequent years, the direction will then become progressively west-southwest, southwest, south-southwest, and so on. All this changes so quickly because of the proximity to true north of the Magnetic Pole dip.
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    The changing compass direction of a straight line is due to the fact that this projected movement describes a Great Circle on the globe, and any Great Circle which passes close to an axial pole goes through rapid compass bearing changes like shown here. It's just a fact of spherical geometry applied to geodetic coordinates.
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    Extrapolating out further, the rapid changes of late in the north dip poles' locations can be seen to indicate that an enormous pole shift is underway. The dip poles have moved in previous centuries quite a lot, as the map indicates, but the movement has not been so rapid and consistent in previous centuries or recent decades as it has been in the past several decades, since 1973. 
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    Curiously, 1973 was the year of Roe vs. Wade. And 1969 was the year of the Novus Ordo Missae.
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    So the changing direction could make an abrupt turn (right or left so to speak) but previous changes in direction have not occurred while the movement was this rapid (55 km per year), and we could reasonably expect that the rate would have to SLOW DOWN FIRST before the direction could make a change.
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    You may have heard mention in various news spots or articles that "some say we are undergoing a pole shift" or other such words. You usually are not given any supporting data to know what they're talking about. But here is the reference site you can go to and see for yourself. The map and diagram I have copied above is the trace record they're referring to when they say that a pole shift is underway. 
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1082 on: November 16, 2017, 03:27:13 PM »
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  • .
    Tardplorable managed to last a whopping 12 weeks! Not a bad run.
    ..
    (His banning had nothing to do with his flat-earthism, though.)
    .
    Unfortunately for him and for all flat-earthism, he was never able to answer the basic questions.
    .
    He gave responses but they did not answer the questions. His answers were persistently evasive.
    .
    He was openly disrespectful of opposing views and made no attempt to patiently discuss objective reality, which BTW is not unrelated to why he was eventually banned because he disrespected the Moderator too, apparently.
    .
    So anyone who is willing to pick up where Tardplorable left off, be my guest.
    .
    I suspect Tardplorable is the owner of the unidentified voice in Fr. Pfeieffer's video, the voice that hurls unreasonable objections from the audience which Fr. Pfeiffer embarrassingly tolerates and for whatever reason does not adequately address with his responses. Fr. actually allows this heckler to steer the course of his presentation which is rather painful to watch.
    .
    I admire Fr. Pfeiffer's willingness to take on the challenge of discussing the concept of flat-earthism, and I think he does a good job on a basic level -- he appears to have done some important research on the history of the Church in this regard -- but he does not adequately apply nor recognize the very present and real means available to everyone in forming a solid understanding of our physical environment otherwise known as the observable universe.
    .
    Fr Pfeiffer did so little research on flat earth it led him to a ridiculous conclusion that earth it's a ball hanging in space. His main source Robert Sungenis (et al) was proven to have been using pagan references only and never consulting scripture or the Church. Their erroneous views against known teachings and against infallible teachings based on planck theory and the Big Bang is a joke.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1083 on: November 16, 2017, 03:36:55 PM »
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  • Fr Pfeiffer did so little research on flat earth it led him to a ridiculous conclusion that earth it's a ball hanging in space. His main source Robert Sungenis (et al) was proven to have been using pagan references only and never consulting scripture or the Church. Their erroneous views against known teachings and against infallible teachings based on planck theory and the Big Bang is a joke.
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    Looky what happened by. So it's you again. 
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    Are you ready to make an intelligent assessment or are you just here to wrangle on with your typical inanity as usual? 
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    Offline RoughAshlar

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1084 on: November 16, 2017, 04:43:37 PM »
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  • Fr Pfeiffer did so little research on flat earth it led him to a ridiculous conclusion that earth it's a ball hanging in space. His main source Robert Sungenis (et al) was proven to have been using pagan references only and never consulting scripture or the Church. Their erroneous views against known teachings and against infallible teachings based on planck theory and the Big Bang is a joke.
    1.  So the its ok that sun, moon, planets and starts in the sky area all globular, "hanging in space", but its a ridiculous conclusion to think we are a "ball hanging in space."  The logical answer is that a flat dinner plate supported by pillars that is floating in space.  

    2.  Pagan or not, it doesn't invalidate the conclusions.  Pythagoras was a pagan but a 2 + b 2 = c 2...every single time.

    3. "against infallible teachings " I assume you are referring to the Holy Bible.  Leo XIII's Providentissimus Deus clearly had the flat earthers in mind when he wrote:  Full text here.

    (52) To understand how just is the rule here formulated we must remember, first, that the sacred writers, or to speak more accurately, the Holy Ghost "Who spoke by them, did not intend to teach men these things (that is to say, the essential nature of the things of the visible universe), things in no way profitable unto salvation."(53) Hence they did not seek to penetrate the secrets of nature, but rather described and dealt with things in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time, and which in many instances are in daily use at this day, even by the most eminent men of science. Ordinary speech primarily and properly describes what comes under the senses; and somewhat in the same way the sacred writers-as the Angelic Doctor also reminds us - `went by what sensibly appeared,"(54) or put down what God, speaking to men, signified, in the way men could understand and were accustomed to.
    19. The unshrinking defence of the Holy Scripture, however, does not require that we should equally uphold all the opinions which each of the Fathers or the more recent interpreters have put forth in explaining it; for it may be that, in commenting on passages where physical matters occur, they have sometimes expressed the ideas of their own times, and thus made statements which in these days have been abandoned as incorrect. Hence, in their interpretations, we must carefully note what they lay down as belonging to faith, or as intimately connected with faith-what they are unanimous in.



    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1085 on: November 16, 2017, 05:19:11 PM »
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  • 2.  Pagan or not, it doesn't invalidate the conclusions.  Pythagoras was a pagan but a 2 + b 2 = c 2...every single time.

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    Problem is, happenby doesn't like   a 2 + b 2 = c 2   because it challenges her golden-calf false-god flat-earthism.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1086 on: January 11, 2018, 03:54:40 PM »
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    Problem is, happenby doesn't like   a 2 + b 2 = c 2  because it challenges her golden-calf false-god flat-earthism.
    .

    It's nice to see the truth go unopposed for two months.
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    In other news, Kansas is flatter than a pancake!
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1087 on: January 11, 2018, 08:22:38 PM »
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    Unopposed truth, at your service!
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1088 on: January 13, 2018, 10:30:25 PM »
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    Like I was saying, unopposed truth.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1089 on: January 14, 2018, 06:31:09 PM »
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    Against a fact there is no argument. 
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    This is proof positive of the curvature of the globe Earth.
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    Offline WholeFoodsTrad

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1090 on: January 14, 2018, 08:55:42 PM »
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  • 1.  So the its ok that sun, moon, planets and starts in the sky area all globular, "hanging in space", but its a ridiculous conclusion to think we are a "ball hanging in space."  The logical answer is that a flat dinner plate supported by pillars that is floating in space.  

    2.  Pagan or not, it doesn't invalidate the conclusions.  Pythagoras was a pagan but a 2 + b 2 = c 2...every single time.

    3. "against infallible teachings " I assume you are referring to the Holy Bible.  Leo XIII's Providentissimus Deus clearly had the flat earthers in mind when he wrote:  Full text here.

    (52) To understand how just is the rule here formulated we must remember, first, that the sacred writers, or to speak more accurately, the Holy Ghost "Who spoke by them, did not intend to teach men these things (that is to say, the essential nature of the things of the visible universe), things in no way profitable unto salvation."(53) Hence they did not seek to penetrate the secrets of nature, but rather described and dealt with things in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time, and which in many instances are in daily use at this day, even by the most eminent men of science. Ordinary speech primarily and properly describes what comes under the senses; and somewhat in the same way the sacred writers-as the Angelic Doctor also reminds us - `went by what sensibly appeared,"(54) or put down what God, speaking to men, signified, in the way men could understand and were accustomed to.
    19. The unshrinking defence of the Holy Scripture, however, does not require that we should equally uphold all the opinions which each of the Fathers or the more recent interpreters have put forth in explaining it; for it may be that, in commenting on passages where physical matters occur, they have sometimes expressed the ideas of their own times, and thus made statements which in these days have been abandoned as incorrect. Hence, in their interpretations, we must carefully note what they lay down as belonging to faith, or as intimately connected with faith-what they are unanimous in.
    That same document, Providentissimus Deus tells us:  

    " "Whatever they (he's referring to "scientists") can really demonstrate to be true of physical nature, we must show to be capable of reconciliation with our Scriptures; and whatever they assert in their treatises which is contrary to these Scriptures of ours, that is to Catholic faith, we must either prove it as well as we can to be entirely false, or at all events we must, without the smallest hesitation, believe it to be so.""

    http://w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18111893_providentissimus-deus.html

    We have been telling you ad nauseam, that it is contrary to The Bible and The Catholic Religion and it is Scientifically False, as all Catholics are instructed to in Providentissimus Deus, if they can and we can, thanks in large part, to the growth of The Internet.  


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1091 on: January 14, 2018, 09:09:18 PM »
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  • That same document, Providentissimus Deus tells us:  

    " "Whatever they (he's referring to "scientists") can really demonstrate to be true of physical nature, we must show to be capable of reconciliation with our Scriptures; and whatever they assert in their treatises which is contrary to these Scriptures of ours, that is to Catholic faith, we must either prove it as well as we can to be entirely false, or at all events we must, without the smallest hesitation, believe it to be so.""

    http://w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18111893_providentissimus-deus.html

    We have been telling you ad nauseam, that it is contrary to The Bible and The Catholic Religion and it is Scientifically False, as all Catholics are instructed to in Providentissimus Deus, if they can and we can, thanks in large part, to the growth of The Internet.  
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    And where, oh where, does Providentissimus Deus or any other document of the Church contradict this?
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    a 2 + b 2 = c 2
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    Once again, against a fact there is no argument.
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    It's nice to see the truth go unopposed for two months.
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    The sphericity of Earth is not contradictory to Scripture or anything else the Church has to offer.
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    But the evidence for it is everywhere you look! 
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    Facts are facts. How inconvenient for you!
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    Offline WholeFoodsTrad

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1092 on: January 14, 2018, 11:05:41 PM »
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  • Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: 50 Plus Reasons The Earth Is Not Flat
    « Reply #1093 on: January 14, 2018, 11:08:09 PM »
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    The Bible doesn't need your false-god, golden-calf, flat-earthism for veracity.
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    The Bible has the Church, and flat-earthism has NOTHING.
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