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Author Topic: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight  (Read 5686 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
« Reply #120 on: February 16, 2022, 07:57:30 AM »
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  • None of the flat earthers (excepting Pax Vobis) cared to comment on the posts about the flat earthers implicit claim that all the world, including Moses, Solomon, and the Lord, use deceptive language, describing appearances and not reality.

    Scripture argument cuts both ways.  Clearly Scripture describes the sun as stopping (with Joshua), and not the earth.  In fact, had the earth stopped, that would have been felt big time all around the world.  Was God working an optical illusion?

    It's not "deception" to refer to the sun rising and setting, because that's exactly what it does in the field of vision and through perspective.  It does in fact rise in the sky and then set (fall) in the sky.  How is that "deception" to use those terms?  Does the sun not rise and then set in the sky?  What, in your opinion, should Scripture say, that it "appears to descend due to perspective as it gets farther away" (instead of "sets")?

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #121 on: February 16, 2022, 08:06:14 AM »
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  • Quote
    It's not "deception" to refer to the sun rising and setting, because that's exactly what it does in the field of vision and through perspective.  It does in fact rise in the sky and then set (fall) in the sky.  How is that "deception" to use those terms?  Does the sun not rise and then set in the sky? 
    Yes, this is the point i was making.  Scripture describes a movement based on common understanding.  It is not explaining a scientific movement of a heavenly body.



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    What, in your opinion, should Scripture say, that it "appears to descend due to perspective as it gets farther away" (instead of "sets")?
    :laugh1:  Exactly.  Marion, you are just interpreting "rising/setting" to prove your point, while in fact, these are just neutral descriptions and prove nothing.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #122 on: February 16, 2022, 08:08:25 AM »
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  • Here's the Book of Enoch regarding the sun.  Notice the regular use of "setting" and "ascending"/"rising" even though the sun is reportedly passing through various portals (not sure what those are supposed to be).


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    And this is the first law of the luminaries: the luminary the Sun has its rising in the eastern portals of the heaven, 3 and its setting in the western portals of the heaven. And I saw six portals in which the sun rises, and six portals in which the sun sets and the moon rises and sets in these portals, and the leaders of the stars and those whom they lead: six in the east and six in the west, and all following each other 4 in accurately corresponding order: also many windows to the right and left of these portals. And first there goes forth the great luminary, named the Sun, and his circuмference is like the 5 circuмference of the heaven, and he is quite filled with illuminating and heating fire. The chariot on which he ascends, the wind drives, and the sun goes down from the heaven and returns through the north in order to reach the east, and is so guided that he comes to the appropriate (lit. ' that ') portal and 6 shines in the face of the heaven. In this way he rises in the first month in the great portal, which 7 is the fourth [those six portals in the cast]. And in that fourth portal from which the sun rises in the first month are twelve window-openings, from which proceed a flame when they are opened in 8 their season. When the sun rises in the heaven, he comes forth through that fourth portal thirty, 9 mornings in succession, and sets accurately in the fourth portal in the west of the heaven. And during this period the day becomes daily longer and the night nightly shorter to the thirtieth 10 morning.


    While Enoch is not accepted as an inspired text, Sacred Scripture quotes it several times, which it would hardly do if it was some occultic/gnostic type of work.  There's an area there in between being inspired and being outright false and filled with error.  While it's not protected from error, it seems to be respected by Sacred Scripture enough to quote from it.  And there's no doubt that Adam and Eve knew about the nature of the world, and passed along a great deal of that knowledge.  We don't believe, as the evolutions do, that early man was ignorant and that's why all these cultures just happened to embrace a flat-world cosmology (because they were guessing and ignorant).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #123 on: February 16, 2022, 08:12:06 AM »
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  • And when I say that the course of the sun is theory, it's possible that the sun we see is just something reflecting off the firmament, or the interaction of some other radiation on the firmament.  Some FEs hold that the actual sun is above the firmament, and the firmament actually reflects or amplified it down on the earth.  They have made these models with a glass dome over the top of the flat plane of earth and then shine a very small flashlight off of it, where the light distribution appears to match that of the sun.

    This video is very interesting:

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #124 on: February 16, 2022, 10:02:45 AM »
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  • And when I say that the course of the sun is theory, it's possible that the sun we see is just something reflecting off the firmament, or the interaction of some other radiation on the firmament.  Some FEs hold that the actual sun is above the firmament, and the firmament actually reflects or amplified it down on the earth.  They have made these models with a glass dome over the top of the flat plane of earth and then shine a very small flashlight off of it, where the light distribution appears to match that of the sun.

    This video is very interesting:

    Great video. Gives you a lot to think about. 

    Strange that some flat earthers, largely a bible referencing group, think celestial lights are above the firmament because scripture describes the lights, which are sun, moon and stars, as "in" the firmament, which is under the dome itself. Like all of them are located in an upside down bowl. It also describes water above the firmament, which divides the water from the water.

    "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."


    Genesis 1:14-16

    "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."


    Genesis 1:6-8 






    Offline Marion

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #125 on: February 16, 2022, 12:33:42 PM »
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  • Scripture argument cuts both ways.  Clearly Scripture describes the sun as stopping (with Joshua), and not the earth.  In fact, had the earth stopped, that would have been felt big time all around the world.  Was God working an optical illusion?

    It's not "deception" to refer to the sun rising and setting, because that's exactly what it does in the field of vision and through perspective.  It does in fact rise in the sky and then set (fall) in the sky.  How is that "deception" to use those terms?  Does the sun not rise and then set in the sky?  What, in your opinion, should Scripture say, that it "appears to descend due to perspective as it gets farther away" (instead of "sets")?

    It's called Copernican Revolution. The Ptolemaic model described what everyone was observing. Sun, moon, and stars orbit the earth, and the planets show a more complicated motion. On the other hand, the Pythagoreans had long claimed: Appearances deceive, the sun is not moving, the earth moves.

    The Roman inquisition condemned the proposition that the sun is at rest as philosophically absurd (plus heretical, against scripture). Also, the proposition that the earth moves and spins as philosophically absurd (plus at least theologically erroneous).

    These propositions are philosophically absurd, because they imply that the obvious isn't obvious. Every child can see what is going on, until it is re-educated and taught that the ground is moving and the sun at rest, or, more recently, that both move.

    "Science" finally found out that they can't distinguish absolute motion from relative motion (Ernst Mach). But still most proponents prefer philosophically absurd ideas.

    What happens when people accept philosophically absurd ideas? Copernicanism has lead to general relativism. Kant, analyzing the Copernican Revolution, even denied that man can recognize a lion as a lion and an oak as an oak. Modernism is another consequence that followed.

    The more recent "Pythagoreans" or "Copernicans" are the modern flat earthers. They continue the tradition to re-educate the children. "No," they say, "the sun isn't rising and setting. It may appear to be, but in reality it isn't. You're deceived. The FE-truth is: the sun moves at constant height".

    But the child doesn't listen. It is watching an aircraft approaching high in the sky on a straight line and then moving away again. No flat earther will make it believe that it looks as if the aircraft had been taking off (rising) when approaching, and landing (setting) when moving away again.
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #126 on: February 16, 2022, 01:18:57 PM »
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  • Great video. Gives you a lot to think about.

    Strange that some flat earthers, largely a bible referencing group, think celestial lights are above the firmament because scripture describes the lights, which are sun, moon and stars, as "in" the firmament, which is under the dome itself. Like all of them are located in an upside down bowl. It also describes water above the firmament, which divides the water from the water.

    "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."


    Genesis 1:14-16

    "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."


    Genesis 1:6-8


    LARGE FONT = MORE AUTHORITY ON A SUBJECT THAT IS UNQUESTIONABLE!!!!
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #127 on: February 16, 2022, 02:11:47 PM »
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  • LARGE FONT = MORE AUTHORITY ON A SUBJECT THAT IS UNQUESTIONABLE!!!!
    The pasted text was larger than I thought and I didn't notice until it was too late to change it. Sorry I offended you with my common sense. 




    Online DigitalLogos

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #128 on: February 16, 2022, 04:46:31 PM »
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  • Here's the Book of Enoch regarding the sun.  Notice the regular use of "setting" and "ascending"/"rising" even though the sun is reportedly passing through various portals (not sure what those are supposed to be).
    It reminds me of Tolkien's Middle-Earth. :laugh1: 
    When Arda was a flat plane enclosed within a globe, before being transformed into a planetoid, its Gates of Morning and the Door of Night were where the Sun leaves the world for the outer dark each night and returns each day in its cycle. Very much similar to the myths of Ra and his boat towing the Sun or the Greco-Romans with Helios pulling the sun with his chariot. Interesting to see that it's in Enoch.








    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding the profane novelties of words, and oppositions of knowledge falsely so called. [1 Tim. 6:20]

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #129 on: February 20, 2022, 04:10:13 PM »
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  • Just wanted to take, oh, 10 seconds, to refute Dankward's gratuitous assertion (delivered as always such authority) that all impact craters are round.  Here are just a couple from earth.

    Rectangular with rounded corners:


    Square with rounded corners:


    You'd have all kinds of things (in a wide variety of shapes) coming in from strange angles.  But instead (on the moon) we see this:


    Perfect circles everywhere ... that also appear to be very shallow for impact craters.  These look more like bubbles in a liquid than they do impact craters.

    If the following asteroid "Oumuamua" (probably just made up by NASA) were to hit sideways, it would NOT result in a circular impact crater.

    Offline Dankward

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #130 on: February 20, 2022, 07:24:48 PM »
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  • Just wanted to take, oh, 10 seconds, to refute Dankward's gratuitous assertion (delivered as always such authority) that all impact craters are round.  Here are just a couple from earth.

    You'd have all kinds of things (in a wide variety of shapes) coming in from strange angles.  But instead (on the moon) we see this:


    Perfect circles everywhere ... that also appear to be very shallow for impact craters.  These look more like bubbles in a liquid than they do impact craters.

    I said that explosions tend to radially expand outwards as energy is quickly released, thus resulting in round impact craters. This was specifically about the moon, not about earth.

    These are not all "perfect circles everywhere" on the moon either, as I already mentioned - just look closely without bias. Use an image editing software if you want to. Are you really looking at this and saying they are all perfect circles?

    However the soft, light moon dust (regolith) is displaced much easier than the tight earth crust, thus tending to result in nice, round craters.

    If you think this proves that the moon is "translucent plasma cheese" you're mistaken - we know the moon is a solid spherical object lit by the sun and only by the sun, we can actually bounce signals off it's surface (as has been done even by amateur radio operators since decades) and measure it's surface using radar, as well as perform spectroscopy on the light that bounces off of it.

    You should really take into account more external, unbiased material on these topics instead of just picking what confirms your bias.

    Radar image of the moon, that means not only light reaching it, but invisible electromagnetic waves hitting the moon and bouncing back:


    Online DigitalLogos

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #131 on: February 21, 2022, 12:35:23 PM »
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  • Scripture argument cuts both ways.  Clearly Scripture describes the sun as stopping (with Joshua), and not the earth.  In fact, had the earth stopped, that would have been felt big time all around the world.  Was God working an optical illusion?
    Another interesting note is that God through Our Lady at Fatima even implicitly undermined the "errors of Russia" to come by moving and changing the Sun in in the sky, with even people in outlying areas witnessing the event. Which, to me, shows the Sun as a local body rather than a gargantuan ball of nuclear plasma in (((space)))
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding the profane novelties of words, and oppositions of knowledge falsely so called. [1 Tim. 6:20]

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #132 on: February 21, 2022, 01:05:49 PM »
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  • Another interesting note is that God through Our Lady at Fatima even implicitly undermined the "errors of Russia" to come by moving and changing the Sun in in the sky, with even people in outlying areas witnessing the event. Which, to me, shows the Sun as a local body rather than a gargantuan ball of nuclear plasma in (((space)))

    This is a really good point.  I haven't considered the Miracle of the Sun yet from the cosmology perspective.  I had always been puzzled by it, like how the earth could get that close to the sun without major things happening, but if the sun is more local, it could come just close enough to heat things up but not incinerate the planet.  I don't buy that the miracle was just a mass hypnosis of the crowds by God.

    Online DigitalLogos

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #133 on: February 21, 2022, 03:39:31 PM »
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  • This is a really good point.  I haven't considered the Miracle of the Sun yet from the cosmology perspective.  I had always been puzzled by it, like how the earth could get that close to the sun without major things happening, but if the sun is more local, it could come just close enough to heat things up but not incinerate the planet.  I don't buy that the miracle was just a mass hypnosis of the crowds by God.
    It was one of the things that first came to mind when I was looking into the subject of geocentrism. She wasn't just warning us about politics or wars, but even cosmological deceptions which a lot of people are waking up to these days (both FE and GE)
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding the profane novelties of words, and oppositions of knowledge falsely so called. [1 Tim. 6:20]

    Offline cassini

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    Re: 3 Full Moons Last Month 2nd Full Moon Tonight
    « Reply #134 on: February 22, 2022, 03:42:52 AM »
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  • Another interesting note is that God through Our Lady at Fatima even implicitly undermined the "errors of Russia" to come by moving and changing the Sun in in the sky, with even people in outlying areas witnessing the event. Which, to me, shows the Sun as a local body rather than a gargantuan ball of nuclear plasma in (((space)))

    The  problem with this miracle is that it was confined to a place in Portugal. If the sun was physically moved, all in the daylight hours on Earth would have seen its effects. This did not happen.