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Author Topic: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)  (Read 28453 times)

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Offline Smedley Butler

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Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
« Reply #135 on: April 27, 2018, 06:02:27 PM »
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  • Well, this is one reason why spherical earth has gained ground.  People assume the earth is a globe.  Pope Sylvester II (Gerbert) was a flat earther evidenced in his description of this "hollow sphere", which represents the universe, not the earth.  From Wiki: (in blue)

    "Richer also revealed how Gerbert made the planets more easily observable in his armillary sphere:"
    "Furthermore, Gerbert instructed Constantine that the north pole could be measured with the upper and lower sighting tubes, the Arctic Circle through another tube, the Tropic of Cancer through another tube, the equator through another tube, and the Tropic of Capricorn through another tube.[29]"

    This proves beyond a doubt that such measurements are made with the line of sight.  This is impossible if earth were a globe.  

    Now, while an armillary sphere can be turned about is if to represent earth as a globe and is represented as such, it can also make the sun stationary when its mechanics are changed.  However, by design of the armillary sphere, its quite clear the sun is not at the center of the universe.  

    An armillary sphere (variations are known as spherical astrolabe, armilla, or armil) is a model of objects in the sky (on the celestial sphere).


    This instrument was designed to show why some stars cannot be seen on certain planes from certain positions, not to explain that earth is a globe.

    More from Wiki:
    The Chinese are quite famous for being flat earthers from ancient times and they used the armillary sphere long before Pope Sylvester II.
    Throughout Chinese history, astronomers have created celestial globes (Chinese: 浑象) to assist the observation of the stars. The Chinese also used the armillary sphere in aiding calendrical computations and calculations.
    According to Needham, the earliest development of the armillary sphere in China goes back to the astronomers Shi Shen and Gan De in the 4th century BC, as they were equipped with a primitive single-ring armillary instrument.[3] This would have allowed them to measure the north polar distance (declination) a measurement that gave the position in a xiu (right ascension).[3] Needham's 4th century dating, however, is rejected by British sinologist Christopher Cullen, who traces the beginnings of these devices to the 1st century BC.[4]


    100% of ancient Catholic authorities who taught anything about the shape of the earth taught earth is flat.
    Good job.
    Those spheres of the heavens have ZERO to do with the flat earth and everything to do the law of perspective
    Happenby, Meg, and aryzia have been exceptionally patient with apollo and forlorn's boring posts, which have been answered ad nauseam. 

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #136 on: April 27, 2018, 07:38:20 PM »
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  • Geocentrism really require a person to believe in magic.
    Did apollo really say that?  Yes, he actually did!


    Offline happenby

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #137 on: April 27, 2018, 08:05:00 PM »
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  • Scientifically and mathematically viable, by what science?  
    How can the sun keep the equator warm and not the North pole if both are on a flat surface?  
    How can it be dark in the Philippines and light in New York if the earth is flat?
    I would like to see some photos of the edge of the flat earth, where you step off into outer
    space.
    Viable certainly not by NASA pagan modern science that pretends man went to the moon and took pictures of the ball earth.
    You'll need to look up some flat earth videos because I'm not answering all these questions in order for you to dis my answers.
    You'll get photos of the edges of flat earth when I get photos of the ball earth.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #138 on: April 27, 2018, 08:08:04 PM »
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  • Cosmas is not a Church Father.  He has unique ideas about the shape of the earth that do not represent the ideas of those Church Fathers who believed in a flat earth. (And obviously he does not represent the Fathers who believed in a spherical earth.)  Reading Christian Topography does not show "what the Fathers are saying" but one might find it amusing.

    His writing shows the opinions of a random 6th century monk. It has no authority and little significance.
    Now this is rich.  You have no idea what the Church Fathers have said, nor what Cosmas has said about the flat earth, except that I've provided you information. 

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #139 on: April 27, 2018, 08:38:10 PM »
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  • Now this is rich.  You have no idea what the Church Fathers have said, nor what Cosmas has said about the flat earth, except that I've provided you information.
    Why would you be my only source of information?  All this information is available online and accessible by anyone with even rudimentary research skills.  I have read many articles on this topic and tried to check original sources as much as possible. Of course I know what Cosmas wrote.  When I claim something, it means that I have done enough research to be confident that my statement is true.

    The best collection that I have found of quotes from the Fathers on flat earth (among other relevant information) is this: http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/flat_earth_myth_ch5.html  This author does his best to be objective and assembles quotes both for and against flat earth.  I also like the chronological arrangement.



    Offline klasG4e

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #141 on: April 28, 2018, 02:15:18 AM »
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  • http://flatearthdeception.com/
    .
    Interesting website, klas. They show a video with two cargo ships, one some distance away from the camera, probably a few miles, and another far out at sea, likely 30 or more miles away. Very powerful telephoto lens on the Nikon P900 gives crisp detail on the distant containers of the far-away ship the foremast of which is visible and the bow but the rest of the hull is below the hump in earth's curvature so the water surface (which curves with the earth) covers up the hull of the distant ship. At first you might think it's a city skyline you're seeing there because it sort of resembles tall buildings but look closely and you'll see it's really stacked containers on the cargo ship's deck! After the first 45 seconds the distant ship is hidden by the closer ship but reappears at 1:50, with tall foremast and the point of the bow at the left end, visible for a few seconds.
    .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=134&v=dKF7D7XsyTA
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #142 on: April 28, 2018, 07:28:24 AM »
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  • Speaking of researching Cosmas, happenby apparently does not realize that scholars who have studied his writings identify many different ideas characteristic of Nestorianism.  It is generally recognized that Cosmas was either a Nestorian himself or, at best, heavily influenced by the Nestorian heresy.  Even the Catholic Encyclopedia article on him mentions this.

    Rather than holding him up as an example of orthodox Christian thought and spokesman for the Fathers, as happenby does, we ought to view everything he writes with suspicion.  He is tainted with heterodoxy.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #143 on: April 28, 2018, 08:49:34 AM »
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  • No, the Novus Ordo is tainted with heterodoxy.

    The same Novus Ordo that taught you your belief in evolution,  heliocentrism, ecuмenism, etc.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #144 on: April 28, 2018, 09:57:36 AM »
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  • No, the Novus Ordo is tainted with heterodoxy.

    The same Novus Ordo that taught you your belief in evolution,  heliocentrism, ecuмenism, etc.
    Heliocentrism in the Church predates Novus Ordo by about 200 years. 

    Offline happenby

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #145 on: April 28, 2018, 10:16:29 AM »
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  • Heliocentrism in the Church predates Novus Ordo by about 200 years.
    Again, do some research bud.  Heliocentrism to some degree existed in Noah's time.  According to WIKI "a fully developed heliocentric model was developed by Aristarchus of Samos in the 3rd century BC"  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism 


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #146 on: April 28, 2018, 10:34:58 AM »
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  • Again, do some research bud.  Heliocentrism to some degree existed in Noah's time.  According to WIKI "a fully developed heliocentric model was developed by Aristarchus of Samos in the 3rd century BC"  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism
    I said in the Church, you illiterate buffoon. It was in the mid-1700s that the Vatican stopped banning new Heliocentric works, and when many Catholic clergymen began to assume it in their theses without issue. 

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #147 on: April 28, 2018, 11:02:06 AM »
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  • Heliocentrism in the Church predates Novus Ordo by about 200 years.
    For the record, my general understanding of how Catholics should understand the relationship between science and Scripture is primarily based on the encyclical Providentissimus Deus  by Pope Leo XIII in 1893.  However, on the specific question of whether Catholics are permitted to believe heliocentrism, I base my conclusion (that we are) on Paul VII's decree of 1820.

    I don't actually identify myself as a heliocentrist, since I do not know enough science to hold an opinion.  As I understand it, the current view promoted by secular science is, strictly speaking, Cosmological Special Relativity rather than heliocentrism.  I would need to understand CSR far better than I do in order to agree or disagree with it.

    As I said in another recent post, I do hold geocentrism in respect because that is the tradtional view of the Church for most of our history.  This traditional geocentrism clearly included the belief that the earth is a sphere.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #148 on: April 28, 2018, 11:40:50 AM »
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  • Speaking of researching Cosmas, happenby apparently does not realize that scholars who have studied his writings identify many different ideas characteristic of Nestorianism.  It is generally recognized that Cosmas was either a Nestorian himself or, at best, heavily influenced by the Nestorian heresy.  Even the Catholic Encyclopedia article on him mentions this.

    Rather than holding him up as an example of orthodox Christian thought and spokesman for the Fathers, as happenby does, we ought to view everything he writes with suspicion.  He is tainted with heterodoxy.
    Many of us know she's been malicious, but this is just rotten. Had she read the book, or done research to include whether or not this calumny against Cosmas had any truth to it before she cast aspersions she would have saved herself more embarrassment. Both philosophically and cartographically, Cosmas' ideas were strictly dictated by his literal interpretation of the Bible; and for his incredible humility and genius, he was highly esteemed in Christendom. Cosmas' Christian Topography has been preserved in two copies: one a parchment manuscript of the 10th century belonging to the Laurentian Library in Florence, containing the whole work except the last leaf; the other, a very fine manuscript of the 8th or 9th century, belonging to the Vatican Library. The Christian Topography contains, in all probability, the oldest Christian maps known. His writings were highly revered in Christendom for 700 years.  No doubt Cosmas's comparison of the first tabernacle to the earth contributed to hundreds of years of Church architecture highlighting high altars with their star-representing candlesticks, enormous granite pillars, and vaulted domes with frescoes of angels and saints in heaven, above. Cosmas' description of the liturgy in relation to the form of the earth is nothing less than inspired, and its a crime more Catholics aren't aware of the typology to help them understand the Mass in relation to the Old Testament as well as the fulfillment in the New Testament. The accusation of Cosmas being a Nestorian came from the fact that poor Cosmas had Nestorian friends. Such a thing cannot prove one is a heretic.  Another piece of information sheds more light.  Nestorians refused to recognize Mary as the mother of God, yet Cosmas glowingly referred to Our Lady as "Theotokos", "Mother of God".  So much for nice tries.  This pathetic attempt to defame Cosmas exposes an intentional failure to examine more closely the facts, and the failure to examine the morons who, contradicting Cosmas, attempt to lie, cheat and steal in order to erase history, beat on God's messengers and lead people astray with false notions of creation.  I say this is intentional because, without fail, this woman hails the religion of globalism to the point of worship, praises its high-priest scientists, sings off-key with her choir of anti-Catholic supporters who consistently get a pass from her, while everything Catholic is disparaged. 
      :heretic:         

    Offline Meg

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #149 on: April 28, 2018, 11:45:19 AM »
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  • Many of us know she's been malicious, but this is just rotten. Had she read the book, or done research to include whether or not this calumny against Cosmas had any truth to it before she cast aspersions she would have saved herself more embarrassment. Both philosophically and cartographically, Cosmas' ideas were strictly dictated by his literal interpretation of the Bible; and for his incredible humility and genius, he was highly esteemed in Christendom. Cosmas' Christian Topography has been preserved in two copies: one a parchment manuscript of the 10th century belonging to the Laurentian Library in Florence, containing the whole work except the last leaf; the other, a very fine manuscript of the 8th or 9th century, belonging to the Vatican Library. The Christian Topography contains, in all probability, the oldest Christian maps known. His writings were highly revered in Christendom for 700 years.  No doubt Cosmas's comparison of the first tabernacle to the earth contributed to hundreds of years of Church architecture highlighting high altars with their star-representing candlesticks, enormous granite pillars, and vaulted domes with frescoes of angels and saints in heaven, above. Cosmas' description of the liturgy in relation to the form of the earth is nothing less than inspired, and its a crime more Catholics aren't aware of the typology to help them understand the Mass in relation to the Old Testament as well as the fulfillment in the New Testament. The accusation of Cosmas being a Nestorian came from the fact that poor Cosmas had Nestorian friends. Such a thing cannot prove one is a heretic.  Another piece of information sheds more light.  Nestorians refused to recognize Mary as the mother of God, yet Cosmas glowingly referred to Our Lady as "Theotokos", "Mother of God".  So much for nice tries.  This pathetic attempt to defame Cosmas exposes an intentional failure to examine more closely the facts, and the failure to examine the morons who, contradicting Cosmas, attempt to lie, cheat and steal in order to erase history, beat on God's messengers and lead people astray with false notions of creation.  I say this is intentional because, without fail, this woman hails the religion of globalism to the point of worship, praises its high-priest scientists, sings off-key with her choir of anti-Catholic supporters who consistently get a pass from her, while everything Catholic is disparaged.  
      :heretic:        

    Jayne likes to use Catholic Encyclopedia, but it's hardly a traditional resource. Rather, it is owned by Novus Ordo people, I think. 

    And Cosmas' literal interpretation of the Bible is not going to be allowed by the globers. Therefore, he has to be maligned by them.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29