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Author Topic: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)  (Read 28431 times)

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Offline apollo

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Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
« Reply #75 on: April 27, 2018, 12:34:16 AM »
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    Suddenly Our Lady appeared to Catherine.
    At first Mary appeared standing on a globe and dressed in white having with a long white veil which fell to her feet.
    The Virgin held in her hands, at the height of her shoulders, a golden ball which she seemed to be offering to
    God as she raised her eyes to heaven.     Her fingers were covered with rings whose precious jewels sparkled brilliantly
    and showered down innumerable rays of light on the globe beneath her feet, almost obscuring the view of her feet.

    Mary lowered her eyes and looked directly at Catherine. Mary said nothing, but Catherine heard this message, "The ball
    which you see represents the world,     especially France, and each person in particular. These rays symbolize the graces
    I shed upon those who ask for them.     The jewels which give no rays symbolize the graces that are not given because they
    are not asked for.

    Then the apparition changed.
    Our Lady appeared with a white dress, a blue mantle, and a white veil which draped back over her shoulders. She was still
    standing on the globe    , and had one foot on the head of a serpent which lay at her feet. The 1830 was marked on the globe.
    The Virgin had her arms and hands pointed downwards, and a cascade of rays was falling down from both hands onto the globe.

    Quoted From:
    St. Catherine Labouré and the Miraculous Medal
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #76 on: April 27, 2018, 06:24:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: happenby on April 26, 2018, 10:32:46 PM
    “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”  --St. Thomas Aquinas
    It is rather ironic to see happenby quoting St. Thomas Aquinas.  Not only did he believe that the earth is a sphere, he was willing to accept the Church's interpretation of Scripture over his own opinion.  If only happenby followed his example instead of merely quoting his words.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #77 on: April 27, 2018, 06:29:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: apollo on April 26, 2018, 11:49:36 PM
     In fact, Geocentrism seems like a joke now.  Nobody can explain it simply, like one can do with Heliocentrism.
    I think that geocentrism ought to be treated with respect, even if one does not believe it.  It was the traditional view of Catholics for a very long time.  Our ancestors were not fools and had good reasons for holding that view.  (The same holds true for spherical earth, also the view of Catholics for most of our history.)
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    Offline aryzia

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #78 on: April 27, 2018, 08:54:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: apollo on April 26, 2018, 11:49:36 PM
    Well, you can quote Scripture all you want, but that does not change the fact that
    Geocentrism has never been defined as a doctrine of the Faith, ex-Cathedra,
    on the basis of faith and morals in an infallible way.  

    You seem to be missing that point.  You can believe either way: Geocentrism or
    Heliocentrism, but you cannot say that Heliocentrism is heresy (and be correct).
    If all modern pagan men believe in Heliocentrism, that does not make it a heresy.

    I'm not choosing between modern scientists and the Bible.  I'm accepting the Bible
    as the word of God and allowing the Church to define how it should be interpreted.

    I'm not accepting modern science with blind faith.  I have studied astronomy, math
    and physics, and have formed my own opinion about the solar system.  After
    studying all things, I have chosen Heliocentrism, which makes a heck of a lot more
    sense than Geocentrism.  In fact, Geocentrism seems like a joke now.  Nobody
    can explain it simply, like one can do with Heliocentrism.

    BTW, I was told that St. Thomas Aquinas was opposed to the idea that Mary was
    conceived without original sin until after it was declared a doctrine of the Faith.  So
    I don't think he was as perfect as you think.
    So what? Scripture declares in its descriptions earth is not a ball. Get a clue.
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    Offline aryzia

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #79 on: April 27, 2018, 08:55:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on April 27, 2018, 06:29:14 AM
    I think that geocentrism ought to be treated with respect, even if one does not believe it.  It was the traditional view of Catholics for a very long time.  Our ancestors were not fools and had good reasons for holding that view.  (The same holds true for spherical earth, also the view of Catholics for most of our history.)
    Well, at least that's a nice change in the right direction.
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    Offline aryzia

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #80 on: April 27, 2018, 08:57:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on April 27, 2018, 06:24:47 AM
    It is rather ironic to see happenby quoting St. Thomas Aquinas.  Not only did he believe that the earth is a sphere, he was willing to accept the Church's interpretation of Scripture over his own opinion.  If only happenby followed his example instead of merely quoting his words.
    Aquinas really never says he believes earth is a ball.
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    Offline aryzia

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #81 on: April 27, 2018, 09:00:45 AM »
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    • Quote from: apollo on April 27, 2018, 12:34:16 AM



    Suddenly Our Lady appeared to Catherine.
    At first Mary appeared standing on a globe and dressed in white having with a long white veil which fell to her feet.
    The Virgin held in her hands, at the height of her shoulders, a golden ball which she seemed to be offering to
    God as she raised her eyes to heaven.     Her fingers were covered with rings whose precious jewels sparkled brilliantly
    and showered down innumerable rays of light on the globe beneath her feet, almost obscuring the view of her feet.

    Mary lowered her eyes and looked directly at Catherine. Mary said nothing, but Catherine heard this message, "The ball
    which you see represents the world,     especially France, and each person in particular. These rays symbolize the graces
    I shed upon those who ask for them.     The jewels which give no rays symbolize the graces that are not given because they
    are not asked for.

    Then the apparition changed.
    Our Lady appeared with a white dress, a blue mantle, and a white veil which draped back over her shoulders. She was still
    standing on the globe    , and had one foot on the head of a serpent which lay at her feet. The 1830 was marked on the globe.
    The Virgin had her arms and hands pointed downwards, and a cascade of rays was falling down from both hands onto the globe.

    Quoted From:
    St. Catherine Labouré and the Miraculous Medal
    Lol. Like others have said many times, the translation may have been influenced by a ball earther but any one with a brain can see that It Lady stands on the firmament dome and not a ball.
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    Offline aryzia

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #82 on: April 27, 2018, 09:02:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: apollo on April 27, 2018, 12:25:09 AM
    I don't try to make Scripture's words fit the globe concept.  I view Scripture as words spoken by prophets
    of ancient times speaking in a way that ancient people could relate to.  And, I don't view the Bible as a
    science textbook, per se.  If it were a science textbook, it would have talked about gravity, velocity, mass
    and acceleration as pertaining to the Sun and Earth.
    The bible is clear and cannot be interpreted in other than the obvious. But the bible is not the only Catholic source that teaches earth is not a globe.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #83 on: April 27, 2018, 09:08:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: aryzia on April 27, 2018, 08:54:41 AM
    So what? Scripture declares in its descriptions earth is not a ball. Get a clue.
    Glad to see you know more about the Bible than the last thousand years of Popes and clergymen. 
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #84 on: April 27, 2018, 10:17:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: aryzia on April 27, 2018, 08:57:00 AM
    Aquinas really never says he believes earth is a ball.
    There is no ambiguity in the original Latin due to his use of the indicative mood of the verb.  He believes the earth is a ball.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #85 on: April 27, 2018, 10:21:16 AM »
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    • Quote from: aryzia on April 27, 2018, 09:02:33 AM
    The bible is clear and cannot be interpreted in other than the obvious. But the bible is not the only Catholic source that teaches earth is not a globe.

    You're right. The Bible does describe a flat earth, even though it does not use the terms "flat earth." The globers on this thread are never going to allow you to believe that though. They're too far gone.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #86 on: April 27, 2018, 10:29:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 27, 2018, 10:21:16 AM
    You're right. The Bible does describe a flat earth, even though it does not use the terms "flat earth." The globers on this thread are never going to allow you to believe that though. They're too far gone.
    It's sad that just about every Pope the last thousand years was too far gone then.
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    Offline aryzia

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #87 on: April 27, 2018, 10:40:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on April 27, 2018, 09:08:55 AM
    Glad to see you know more about the Bible than the last thousand years of Popes and clergymen.
    100% of the Fathers of the Church who taught about the shape of the earth taught flat geocentric earth.
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    Offline aryzia

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #88 on: April 27, 2018, 10:40:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on April 27, 2018, 10:29:51 AM
    It's sad that just about every Pope the last thousand years was too far gone then.
    Ask Francis
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    Offline aryzia

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #89 on: April 27, 2018, 10:42:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on April 27, 2018, 10:17:24 AM
    There is no ambiguity in the original Latin due to his use of the indicative mood of the verb.  He believes the earth is a ball.
    He uses it as an example but never says what he believes. Also, that is a passage I have yet to examine in the original Latin.
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