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Author Topic: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash  (Read 116429 times)

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Offline happenby

Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2018, 10:13:33 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 11, 2018, 10:01:26 AM
But it can be credibly interpreted as describing neither one, i.e. not attempting to describe the shape of the earth at all.
Just the Fathers' comments on the firmament say otherwise.  If all their commentary on the firmament was the only place Scripture described the earth, that would almost be enough to eliminate globe earth because the Fathers talk quite a bit about it being a vault-like structure above earth, a dome, a tent, an expanse, and that it divides the water above from the water below.  How does a dome/tent/vault apply to a globe?  The division of water is pretty telling as well. Now, since some might stretch these things to accommodate the globe, there are other aspects of what the Fathers have expounded on that help close the gaps.  Beyond that, the Fathers' silence on the globe is deafening.           
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Offline Jaynek

Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2018, 10:25:50 AM »
Quote from: happenby on May 11, 2018, 09:57:27 AM
Augustine says many things about the flat earth, including the quotes provided above about the firmament.  The intended purpose of bringing flat earth up time and again is to get people to take seriously the subject and dig up docuŠ¼ents for full evaluation, do experiments, study the subject with an open mind.  There is a trend in the Church and it doesn't favor the globe pretty much ever.  For those who insist on calling me and others "dogmatic flat earthers", your attempts to discourage discussion, thwart the words and intentions of the Fathers, and otherwise use categorical commentary to denounce people shows contempt for no reason.
The use of the word "firmament" does not necessary imply that the author believes the earth is flat with a dome.  The term was co-opted by Catholics who accepted traditional geocentrism to describe a sphere surrounding the spherical earth.  Neither does rejection of antipodes imply belief in flat earth.  You keep seeing support for flat earth is passages that do not actually support it, giving you an exaggerated sense of just how much of this existed.

The "trend in the Church" is that belief in flat earth disappeared for over a thousand years.  There is no reason to take it seriously based on appeals to Catholic belief.  If you have good science arguments for flat earth, go ahead and make them.  Pretending that it is backed by the Church just destroys your credibility.
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Offline happenby

Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2018, 10:28:55 AM »
Quote from: Jaynek on May 11, 2018, 10:25:50 AM
The use of the word "firmament" does not necessary imply that the author believes the earth is flat with a dome.  The term was co-opted by Catholics who accepted traditional geocentrism to describe a sphere surrounding the spherical earth.  Neither does rejection of antipodes imply belief in flat earth.  You keep seeing support for flat earth is passages that do not actually support it, giving you an exaggerated sense of just how much of this existed.

The "trend in the Church" is that belief in flat earth disappeared for over a thousand years.  There is no reason to take it seriously based on appeals to Catholic belief.  If you have good science arguments for flat earth, go ahead and make them.  Pretending that it is backed by the Church just destroys your credibility.
If my credibility is destroyed for helping people to understand Catholic opinion unsullied by spinners, let it be so. 
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Offline Jaynek

Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2018, 10:35:30 AM »
Quote from: happenby on May 11, 2018, 10:28:55 AM
If my credibility is destroyed for helping people to understand Catholic opinion unsullied by spinners, let it be so.
Can you give an opinion from a Catholic authority (Saints, Doctors, magisterial sources) any time after 700 that suggests that the earth is flat?

Genuine Catholic opinions persist throughout time.  They do not disappear for a thousand years and then get revived by heretics and promoted by pagans.  Pointing that out is not spin.  
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Offline Meg

Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2018, 10:41:32 AM »
Quote from: Jaynek on May 11, 2018, 10:35:30 AM
Can you give an opinion from a Catholic authority (Saints, Doctors, magisterial sources) any time after 700 that suggests that the earth is flat?

Genuine Catholic opinions persist throughout time.  They do not disappear for a thousand years and then get revived by heretics and promoted by pagans.  That is not spin.  

So genuine Catholic opinion still exists in the church as it is today?

Has it really persisted through today? You don't believe that Truth has been eclipsed or distorted by modernism?
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