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Author Topic: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash  (Read 101790 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2018, 09:16:16 AM »
There are few that one can point to it being their opinion. Lactantius is the only one which claims it's a matter of faith. St. Basil and St. Augustine explicitly say this topic is not in Scripture and is not worthy of serious thought. No one's saying they were ignorant. The ones who did hold the FE opinion seemed to hold it not as a matter of faith, but as the common opinion where they were. Like I said though, there weren't that many who wrote about it.
The only reason it's debatable is because the FE's are trying to destroy all credibility of the Church, so they try to tie it into the Catholic Faith. They get Catholics to believe in it by exaggerating the importance among the Fathers and twisting Scripture to attempt to make it a religious matter. There's a reason why this subject was not brought up for about 1500 years.

I was just saying that the Fathers who did see the Bible as teaching Flat Earth were not ignorant ... and the Bible CAN credibly be interpreted that way.  At no point have I said that it's de fide or otherwise indisputable.

Online Ladislaus

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Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2018, 09:17:45 AM »
The "significance" of the views of ancient pagans is that they are evidence that people's immediate perceptions seem to show the earth is flat.

There's more detail in those views (that's similar in all their models) than can be attributed to naive naked-eye observations.


Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2018, 09:33:09 AM »

At the end of the day, I want to know the truth about this matter, but instead of real experiments that prove their thesis, you get a lot of rhetoric and false evidence (interpreted to support their theory due to simple confirmation bias).  Perhaps the globe earthers don't go out of their way to prove this because they assume that it's true and doesn't need proof.  So they do a lot of "it's just clear to anyone who has eyes" type of stuff ... that I find decidedly unconvincing.
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IF "at the end of the day" you want to know the truth, then what do you have to say about the following objective test?
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The little blue arrows are independent observations of which direction an observer looks from his location into the sky to see the sun.
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I won't be surprised if Ladislaus conveniently ignores this question.
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Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2018, 09:40:29 AM »
It only has Biblical roots if you don't understand allegory and you are trying to distort Scripture.
You are spreading false information in suggesting that Scripture is allegorical as if the literal sense does not take precedence. 
Scripture must always be interpreted in the literal unless proven otherwise.  Globe earth has not been proven.  And the Fathers who taught about the form of the earth, taught flat earth.
Providenssimus Deus says:
A wide field is still left open to the private student, in which his hermeneutical skill may display itself with signal effect and to the advantage of the Church. On the one hand, in those passages of Holy Scripture which have not as yet received a certain and definitive interpretation, such labors may, in the benignant providence of God, prepare for and bring to maturity the judgment of the Church; on the other, in passages already defined, the private student may do work equally valuable, either by setting them forth more clearly to the flock and more skillfully to scholars, or by defending them more powerfully from hostile attack.


 The Holy Fathers β€œto whom, after the Apostles, the Church owes its growth β€” who have planted, watered, built, governed, and cherished it,”39 the Holy Fathers, We say, are of supreme authority, whenever they all interpret in one and the same manner any text of the Bible, as pertaining to the doctrine of faith or morals; for their unanimity clearly evinces that such interpretation has come down from the Apostles as a matter of Catholic faith. The opinion of the Fathers is also of very great weight when they treat of these matters in their capacity of doctors, unofficially; not only because they excel in their knowledge of revealed doctrine and in their acquaintance with many things which are useful in understanding the apostolic Books, but because they are men of eminent sanctity and of ardent zeal for the truth, on whom God has bestowed a more ample measure of His light. Wherefore the expositor should make it his duty to follow their footsteps with all reverence, and to use their labors with intelligent appreciation.

 But he must not on that account consider that it is forbidden, when just cause exists, to push inquiry and exposition beyond what the Fathers have done; provided he carefully observes the rule so wisely laid down by St. Augustine β€” not to depart from the literal and obvious sense, except only where reason makes it untenable or necessity requires

Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2018, 09:42:10 AM »
I was just saying that the Fathers who did see the Bible as teaching Flat Earth were not ignorant ... and the Bible CAN credibly be interpreted that way.  At no point have I said that it's de fide or otherwise indisputable.
Equally true is that Scripture CANNOT be credibly interpreted as describing earth is a globe.