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Author Topic: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash  (Read 101678 times)

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Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2018, 06:55:32 PM »
Virtually every claim you have made in regard to history and theology supporting flat earth has been incorrect and has been conclusively shown to be incorrect with copious amounts of credible references.  You dismiss all this evidence on the flimsiest of excuses or ignore it altogether and continue to make the same false claims.

I am not going to waste my time posting the same overwhelming evidence over and over again, but it has all been presented on this forum.  You are wrong and have been proven to be wrong.  You do not have a "cohesive and well-founded argument" and this is obvious to any objective observer.

Science is not an area in which I feel qualified to evaluate your statements, but you have so completely destroyed your credibility by your egregious errors in areas in which I am knowledgeable that I find it unlikely that you know what you are talking about in that area either.
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It's too bad one must resort to being so blatant and fundamental, but if you try to be nice flat-earthers ignore what you have to say since it is so terribly inconvenient for their agenda, all the while they accuse you of ignoring their "proofs" when they haven't provided any.
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You're doing a fine job, Jaynek, defending the truth against a malicious and egregious opponent.

Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2018, 07:30:48 PM »
We're not talking about vanishing point.  I've seen demonstrations of how a visual convergence happens between the plane and the object well before it reaches its vanishing point.

An article like this I give little credibility to because it's emotionally charged, repeatedly referring to flat earth "deception", "deception techniques", attempting to win over "the gullible into their cult".

I've seen pictures where JUST THE BOTTOM of the ship disappears, i.e. it's not reached its vanishing point, and then when you zoom in you can see the entire ship again, including the bottom.  So the fact that this article makes it about "vanishing point" ... well, it's creating a false straw man argument.  Consequently, it's the author of this article who's guilty of deception.
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Your emotionally charged outbursts discredit everything you say, Ladislaus.


Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2018, 07:56:44 PM »
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Since no one has managed to respond to the OP after 3 pages (while pretending to have responded) I'll post it again, with more material:
.
.
Anybody who gives the flat earth idea the slightest amount of critical examination will realize that it's complete balderdash.  
.
Saying that 6 miles at sea should account for 24 feet of drop is nonsense: a sight line 6 feet above the water would meet the top of another 6-foot pole at 6 miles' distance if the earth were "flat."
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Here is a video of a large ship quite clearly going over and behind the curvature of the sea:
.

The meme-like caption in the title frame shown asks you to consider this:
IF the earth were "flat" the top of the container ship being magnified here with a telephoto lens located above the water's "flat" surface would certainly be higher than the top of the smaller boat located part way in between the camera and the container ship.
While this discrepancy does not "prove" anything, it most certainly does not support the claim that the water surface is "flat" because the VERY TALL container ship superstructure is well BELOW the top of the much shorter boat.
Furthermore, we can see the small boat's hull entirely but the ship's hull is completely out of sight below the water's surface, where no amount of magnification can bring it into view, only ascending to higher ground for a viewpoint of higher elevation will enable the camera to see the ship's hull.
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The ship does not become more visible in its parts when the telephoto zooms in for a magnified view.
The hull disappears without question behind the water surface in the foreground, that is, the surface on which smaller boats traverse right there for you to see. You can see the hull of the smaller boat but not the hull of the container ship.
As it goes along gradually the containers on deck disappear as well below the water surface as if the ship were sinking.
Nobody can make the containers and the hull re-appear by zooming in through a telephoto lens.
One thing that is NOT shown in this one-position video is what this ship looks like from a higher vantage point, like from a nearby bluff.
There are other videos that show that, but flat-earthers are terrified of them so they refuse to acknowledge them, or, at best, accuse them of being fake.
.
The container ship starts quite visible with most of its hull in view, but sailing away for an hour appears to sink gradually into the sea.
Eventually the containers on deck and the ship's superstructure are all hidden behind the apparently rising water level of the sea.
The smaller boats in between the container ship and camera are not rising and falling over huge waves, so the swells are quite small, about 2 feet.
Can you refute this simple evidence?
.
The website page below compares views of Polaris from various latitudes on a "flat" earth vs. a spherodial earth.
The angle of sight from earth to Polaris is identical to the viewer's latitude on earth!
All viewers are seeing the sun at the same time, so the sun must be located in the same place, consequently all viewers must be looking in the same direction to see the sun there.
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I find it quite telling that nobody has seen fit to comment on this concept.
If you measure the angle from the horizon to Polaris it's always the same as the latitude where you're standing.
Sailors at sea have been using this trick for hundreds of years.
That's how anyone can know their latitude with one simple measurement, that is, so long as they can see Polaris.
Furthermore, it makes no difference what time of night it is, Polaris is always in the same place in the sky.
The further north you are the higher it gets until at the north pole it's directly overhead.
And in the southern hemisphere, the same feature (but no star) exists where the star tracks circle and you can measure your latitude south of the equator with the same technique.
So how does the "flat" earth map explain this?
.
This is a very powerful indicator that a "flat" earth concept is useless, since as the diagram shows, observers in various latitudes have to look in different directions to see the same thing.
Furthermore, viewers south of the equator can't see Polaris at all.
There have been some flat-earthers who have tried to be clever or something by claiming that people up to 20 degrees south of the equator can see Polaris, but they haven't managed to provide any evidence of that. When I replied, "They must have been at the ridge line of the Andes Mountains" nobody responded. I wasn't supposed to know their secret!
.
Does this support flat-earthism or is it rather supportive of a spheroidial earth?
.
http://i.imgur.com/CPU63Tm.jpg

.
Another highly problematic reality for flat-earthers :
.
How can we measure the relative distance of the earth-to-moon vs. earth-to-sun?
You don't need any fancy equipment for this.
Just a rectangular block of white styrofoam or a pizza box (after you've eaten the pizza!) will work just fine.
Or, you can eat the pizza WHILE you take the measurements. I did that and it was great. Very pleasant afternoon!
.
Can you refute this evidence that the sun is much further away from earth than the moon is?  
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVgx0Eio2Mg
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An excellent response to flat earth nonsense.
Numbers and simple math disproves all their childish yammering.
The childish agnosticism of Ladislaus notwithstanding.
.
Another H-U-G-E problem for flat-earthers:
.
It's painfully obvious that the sun doesn't twirl around above the earth the way flat-earthers claim.
How would Antarctica get 24 hour sun if it did?
.
https://vimeo.com/136977957

And no, Polaris has not always been the Pole star in the past, nor will it be in the future.
.
Essentially, belief in the silly idea the earth is "flat" relies entirely on ignorance.
.
For at least some, their ignorance is willful and impudent, therefore quite repulsive.
.

Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2018, 08:17:52 PM »
.
Since no one has managed to respond to the OP after 3 pages (while pretending to have responded) I'll post it again, with more material:
.
.
Anybody who gives the flat earth idea the slightest amount of critical examination will realize that it's complete balderdash.  
.
Saying that 6 miles at sea should account for 24 feet of drop is nonsense: a sight line 6 feet above the water would meet the top of another 6-foot pole at 6 miles' distance if the earth were "flat."
.
Here is a video of a large ship quite clearly going over and behind the curvature of the sea:
.

The meme-like caption in the title frame shown asks you to consider this:
IF the earth were "flat" the top of the container ship being magnified here with a telephoto lens located above the water's "flat" surface would certainly be higher than the top of the smaller boat located part way in between the camera and the container ship.
While this discrepancy does not "prove" anything, it most certainly does not support the claim that the water surface is "flat" because the VERY TALL container ship superstructure is well BELOW the top of the much shorter boat.
Furthermore, we can see the small boat's hull entirely but the ship's hull is completely out of sight below the water's surface, where no amount of magnification can bring it into view, only ascending to higher ground for a viewpoint of higher elevation will enable the camera to see the ship's hull.
.
The ship does not become more visible in its parts when the telephoto zooms in for a magnified view.
The hull disappears without question behind the water surface in the foreground, that is, the surface on which smaller boats traverse right there for you to see. You can see the hull of the smaller boat but not the hull of the container ship.
As it goes along gradually the containers on deck disappear as well below the water surface as if the ship were sinking.
Nobody can make the containers and the hull re-appear by zooming in through a telephoto lens.
One thing that is NOT shown in this one-position video is what this ship looks like from a higher vantage point, like from a nearby bluff.
There are other videos that show that, but flat-earthers are terrified of them so they refuse to acknowledge them, or, at best, accuse them of being fake.
.
The container ship starts quite visible with most of its hull in view, but sailing away for an hour appears to sink gradually into the sea.
Eventually the containers on deck and the ship's superstructure are all hidden behind the apparently rising water level of the sea.
The smaller boats in between the container ship and camera are not rising and falling over huge waves, so the swells are quite small, about 2 feet.
Can you refute this simple evidence?
.
The website page below compares views of Polaris from various latitudes on a "flat" earth vs. a spherodial earth.
The angle of sight from earth to Polaris is identical to the viewer's latitude on earth!
All viewers are seeing the sun at the same time, so the sun must be located in the same place, consequently all viewers must be looking in the same direction to see the sun there.
.
I find it quite telling that nobody has seen fit to comment on this concept.
If you measure the angle from the horizon to Polaris it's always the same as the latitude where you're standing.
Sailors at sea have been using this trick for hundreds of years.
That's how anyone can know their latitude with one simple measurement, that is, so long as they can see Polaris.
Furthermore, it makes no difference what time of night it is, Polaris is always in the same place in the sky.
The further north you are the higher it gets until at the north pole it's directly overhead.
And in the southern hemisphere, the same feature (but no star) exists where the star tracks circle and you can measure your latitude south of the equator with the same technique.
So how does the "flat" earth map explain this?
.
This is a very powerful indicator that a "flat" earth concept is useless, since as the diagram shows, observers in various latitudes have to look in different directions to see the same thing.
Furthermore, viewers south of the equator can't see Polaris at all.
There have been some flat-earthers who have tried to be clever or something by claiming that people up to 20 degrees south of the equator can see Polaris, but they haven't managed to provide any evidence of that. When I replied, "They must have been at the ridge line of the Andes Mountains" nobody responded. I wasn't supposed to know their secret!
.
Does this support flat-earthism or is it rather supportive of a spheroidial earth?
.
http://i.imgur.com/CPU63Tm.jpg

.
Another highly problematic reality for flat-earthers :
.
How can we measure the relative distance of the earth-to-moon vs. earth-to-sun?
You don't need any fancy equipment for this.
Just a rectangular block of white styrofoam or a pizza box (after you've eaten the pizza!) will work just fine.
Or, you can eat the pizza WHILE you take the measurements. I did that and it was great. Very pleasant afternoon!
.
Can you refute this evidence that the sun is much further away from earth than the moon is?  
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVgx0Eio2Mg
.
An excellent response to flat earth nonsense.
Numbers and simple math disproves all their childish yammering.
The childish agnosticism of Ladislaus notwithstanding.
.
Another H-U-G-E problem for flat-earthers:
.
It's painfully obvious that the sun doesn't twirl around above the earth the way flat-earthers claim.
How would Antarctica get 24 hour sun if it did?
.
https://vimeo.com/136977957

And no, Polaris has not always been the Pole star in the past, nor will it be in the future.
.
Essentially, belief in the silly idea the earth is "flat" relies entirely on ignorance.
.
For at least some, their ignorance is willful and impudent, therefore quite repulsive.
.
Saying that 6 miles at sea should account for 24 feet of drop is nonsense:
What a stupid thing to say. The math formula for a 25,000 mi circuмference sphere is a fact. One minute you globers say it's curved, the next you deny it.

Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2018, 09:32:51 PM »
Can you provide a quote from Wikipedia which disagrees with what I wrote?
Like most ancient peoples, the Hebrews believed the sky was a solid dome with the Sun, Moon, planets and stars embedded in it

The Copernican Revolution of the 16th century led to reconsideration of these matters. In 1554, John Calvin proposed that "firmament" be interpreted as clouds.[12] "He who would learn astronomy and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere," wrote Calvin.[12] "As it became a theologian, [Moses] had to respect us rather than the stars," Calvin wrote. Calvin's doctrine of accommodation allowed Protestants to accept the findings of science without rejecting the authority of scripture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament


In 1584, Giordano Bruno proposed a cosmology without firmament: an infinite universe in which the stars are actually suns with their own planetary systems.[16] After Galileo began using a telescope to examine the sky, it became harder to argue that the heavens were perfect, as Aristotelian philosophy required. By 1630, the concept of solid orbs was no longer dominant.[17]