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Author Topic: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash  (Read 101904 times)

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Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2018, 09:51:31 PM »

Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2018, 09:52:41 PM »


Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 09:11:08 AM »
Neil Globestat just got taken to the Smackdown Cafe for lunch by Ladislaus.

Too funny. 

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 10:36:40 AM »
I hope your tendencies remain consistent with the Dogmatic Flatearthists on this site.

For both sides, I am trying to take the evidence and examine it on its own.  Just because I dismiss Neil as a biased source doesn't mean I don't look at the things he posts.  It's just very difficult to filter out the core factual content when it's surrounded by 3 or 4 paragraphs of emotional ranting and insults.

I'm considering the picture he posted in the OP to understand what its implications are.

What I don't like is when people ignore something and then post OTHER evidence either unrelated or only tangentially related to it ... without actually addressing the main point.

So, if someone posts a picture which appears to show curvature, then someone else posts a different picture that shows no curvature.  If both pictures are genuine, then there must be an explanation for why one of them isn't proving what the poster claims that it does.

So, for instance, a globe earther will show video of a boat getting lower and then disappearing as it moves away from the observer.  But then flat earthers have shown convincing evidence that this can APPEAR to be the case even when it really isn't ... if you zoom in on the boat with some magnification.  So they have demonstrated that the visual appearance of something sinking beyond the horizon doesn't prove globe earth ... since it can just be an optical phenomenon.  So this is the kind of analysis I'm trying to do ... amid all the emotional noise on either side.

Neil at one point posted video of SpaceX as if it proved globe earth, but then flat earthers provided convincing evidence that the pictures were fake/CGI/something and could not have been genuine.  Does that prove flat earth?  No.  But it showed that that particular piece of evidence from globe earthers was invalid.

Now, on the other side, I've seen pictures taken by objective third parties of mountains that could be seen from WAY TOO FAR AWAY given curvature math.  These were from people who had no interest in disputing globe earth.  I've seen pictures of other objects that would not be visible at the stated distances.  And there's only one explanation from globe earthers ... refraction.  If you're a globe earther, you assume that there MUST have been refraction (because of your premise that the earth is a globe).  If you're a flat earther, you assume that there was NOT refraction involved.  If you're trying to find the truth, then you sit here wondering whether there's a way to prove or disprove refraction.

So the ultimate problem is that, when you've already made up your mind almost dogmatically about something, then you selectively interpret and filter out evidence that seems to oppose your viewpoint.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: "Flat" Earth -- Complete Balderdash
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2018, 10:48:47 AM »
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Anybody who gives the flat earth idea the slightest amount of critical examination will realize that it's complete balderdash.  
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Saying that 6 miles at sea should account for 24 feet of drop is nonsense: a sight line 6 feet above the water would meet the top of another 6-foot pole at 6 miles' distance if the earth were "flat."
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Here is a video of a large ship quite clearly going over and behind the curvature of the sea:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUgKxxR9XkU
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The container ship starts quite visible with most of its hull in view, but sailing away for an hour appears to sink gradually into the sea.
Eventually the containers on deck and the ship's superstructure are all hidden behind the apparently rising water level of the sea.
The smaller boats in between the container ship and camera are not rising and falling over huge waves, so the swells are quite small, about 2 feet.
Can you refute this simple evidence? 

Let me take this first one.  Neil asserts this video as proof of globe earth.  He opens with the assertion that flat earth is "complete balderdash".  Then he offers evidence, the video of a ship appearing to disappear into the horizon.  This is claims is "simple evidence".

But I have seen many videos produced by flat earthers which appears initially to show the same phenomenon, a ship disappearing into the horizon.  Then additional magnification is applied, and the ship reappears ... demonstrating that the initial disappearance of the ship was an optical phenomenon and not due to earth curvature.

So, in order for this video to constitute "simple evidence", Neil would have to rule out the same demonstrable optical phenomenon having been at work in this video.  He does no such thing, so I reject his "simple evidence" as inconclusive non-evidence.

It's pretty clear.  Problem is that when you have an emotional attachment to one or another outcome out of the gate, you skip logical steps and then in your mind this proves something that needs not proving (since you already believe in it beforehand).  But does it objectively prove it to a third-party objective observer like myself?  No.

And when Neil adduces something like this as proof when it's objectively NOT proof, that undermines his credibility as a reliable source of argument or information.  Everything he presents must now be sifted through with a fine-toothed comb.