Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => The Catholic Bunker => Topic started by: cassini on June 30, 2023, 07:59:53 AM
-
Has this subject ever been discussed in Catholic theology? Has any saint ever given a reason for this kind of punishment in Hell? There are no simple happenings in God's works, so there must be a reason why He chose fire as the punishment in Hell rather than anything else.
Having studied the history of Pagan heliocentrism that took over Biblical and created geocentrism in both faith and reason in the past 400 years, resulting in the emergence of modern paganism, atheism and Modernism in the Catholic Church that has empties the churches, I am wondering is there a connection with the fire of Pagans and the Fire of Hell.
Copernicus's, Galileo's and Newton's heliocentrism originated from the pagan belief of the Earth and planets orbiting a central fire (the sun). Defined as a revelation of Scripture this fire based heresy was adopted into Catholic exegesis in 1820 that led to the elimination of the supernatural Creation by God being replaced with a natural evolution of creation by way of a Big Bang.
Reading a book on paganism that dominated the world after Noah's Flood, I came across this paragraph.
Sun worship was a prominent feature of the Hermetic philosophy.. The divine institution of sacrifice for sin by fire must be regarded as the foundation of the supposed spiritual efficacy of fire to purify the soul, the material type being substituted for the spiritual meaning. The supposed spiritual efficacy of fire to purify the soul, the material type being substituted for the spiritual meaning. The supposed spiritual efficacy of fire was recognised throughout paganism. Continual fires were kept burning before all the altars of the Sun god, and in the case of the Incas of Peru, were kindled anew every year from the rays of the sun by means of a concave mirror of polished metal. In the rites of Zoroaster it was stated that "He who approached to the fire would receive a light from divinity" and again that "Through fire all the stains produced by generation would be purged away." "Fire," says Ovid, "purifies both shepherds and sheep." So also in the sacred books of the Hindus fire is thus addressed, “Thou thus expiate a sin against the Gods, thou dost expiate a sin against the manes (departed spirits), thou dost expiate a sin against my own soul, thou dost expiate repeated sin, thou dost expiate every sin which I have committed wilfully or unintentionally,”
The supposed spiritual efficacy of fire and the apparent connection between Fire and the Sun as the source of the world’s heat would furnish the argument for sun worship. For if Fire, as an emanation from the Sun, was divine, then the sun was the source of all that is divine, and therefore God Himself, the source of spiritual life and regeneration. The Sun is also used in Scripture as the material type of God, and the general recognition of the type was no doubt made use of to give authority to the belief that the type was the reality. Now, when the Sun had come to be the manifestation of God, the dead king, as the promised seed of the woman and the incarnation of God, would of course, be identified with the Sun, and the two forms of idolatry would be combined.’---THE WORSHIP OF THE DEAD or THE ORIGIN AND NATURE OF PAGAN IDOLATRY by Colonel J. Garnier. London books, 1904.
If God chose the fire of Hell in response to pagan fire of history, that might explain the question.
-
Fire is the most painful thing there is. Also, God wanted people who chose creatures over Him to be punished by a creature.
What else do you think God could have used to torment the damned? Put them in a big hydraulic press and crush them for all eternity? Stab them over and over again forever? Or what?
-
Has this subject ever been discussed in Catholic theology? Has any saint ever given a reason for this kind of punishment in Hell? There are no simple happenings in God's works, so there must be a reason why He chose fire as the punishment in Hell rather than anything else.
Having studied the history of Pagan heliocentrism that took over Biblical and created geocentrism in both faith and reason in the past 400 years, resulting in the emergence of modern paganism, atheism and Modernism in the Catholic Church that has empties the churches, I am wondering is there a connection with the fire of Pagans and the Fire of Hell.
Copernicus's, Galileo's and Newton's heliocentrism originated from the pagan belief of the Earth and planets orbiting a central fire (the sun). Defined as a revelation of Scripture this fire based heresy was adopted into Catholic exegesis in 1820 that led to the elimination of the supernatural Creation by God being replaced with a natural evolution of creation by way of a Big Bang.
Reading a book on paganism that dominated the world after Noah's Flood, I came across this paragraph.
Sun worship was a prominent feature of the Hermetic philosophy.. The divine institution of sacrifice for sin by fire must be regarded as the foundation of the supposed spiritual efficacy of fire to purify the soul, the material type being substituted for the spiritual meaning. The supposed spiritual efficacy of fire to purify the soul, the material type being substituted for the spiritual meaning. The supposed spiritual efficacy of fire was recognised throughout paganism. Continual fires were kept burning before all the altars of the Sun god, and in the case of the Incas of Peru, were kindled anew every year from the rays of the sun by means of a concave mirror of polished metal. In the rites of Zoroaster it was stated that "He who approached to the fire would receive a light from divinity" and again that "Through fire all the stains produced by generation would be purged away." "Fire," says Ovid, "purifies both shepherds and sheep." So also in the sacred books of the Hindus fire is thus addressed, “Thou thus expiate a sin against the Gods, thou dost expiate a sin against the manes (departed spirits), thou dost expiate a sin against my own soul, thou dost expiate repeated sin, thou dost expiate every sin which I have committed wilfully or unintentionally,”
The supposed spiritual efficacy of fire and the apparent connection between Fire and the Sun as the source of the world’s heat would furnish the argument for sun worship. For if Fire, as an emanation from the Sun, was divine, then the sun was the source of all that is divine, and therefore God Himself, the source of spiritual life and regeneration. The Sun is also used in Scripture as the material type of God, and the general recognition of the type was no doubt made use of to give authority to the belief that the type was the reality. Now, when the Sun had come to be the manifestation of God, the dead king, as the promised seed of the woman and the incarnation of God, would of course, be identified with the Sun, and the two forms of idolatry would be combined.’---THE WORSHIP OF THE DEAD or THE ORIGIN AND NATURE OF PAGAN IDOLATRY by Colonel J. Garnier. London books, 1904.
If God chose the fire of Hell in response to pagan fire of history, that might explain the question.
Fire as a 'thing' is really strange when you think about it... I mean it's fire.
-
Interesting question. Reminded me of this absurd theory that says that the origin of consciousness in hominids* were the hypnotic effects of staring at fire for extended periods of time. See Fire (unmpress.com) (https://www.unmpress.com/9780826346469/fire/).
From a spiritual point of view, that theory is tantamount to paganism. One could compare it to some sort of "god of fire" being the creator of the human soul. It is not a stretch to think that the true God would punish pagans with what they worship as the creator of their souls.
*hominids did not exist because evolution is a hoax.
-
As per the question itself, I don't know about Church fathers that had addressed it, but I think the answer should be along the lines of fire being able to consume things (turn them into dust) and also being perpetually in motion (in contrast with the peaceful tranquility of Heaven).
Some acid, for instance, would be able to consume things but, being a liquid it would be at rest once it has consumed them. One of the features of hell is the perpetuity of torment.
-
What else do you think God could have used to torment the damned? Put them in a big hydraulic press and crush them for all eternity? Stab them over and over again forever? Or what?
I have a problem with portraying God as a "tormentor". What happens to people in eternity is caused directly by their own free will and their choices, and the suffering in Hell results ontologically from the privation of that capacity given to souls to love God and to be filled with God. As to how this translates into fire, only God knows.
-
I have a problem with portraying God as a "tormentor". What happens to people in eternity is caused directly by their own free will and their choices, and the suffering in Hell results ontologically from the privation of that capacity given to souls to love God and to be filled with God. As to how this translates into fire, only God knows.
It sure sounds like fire: to be continually tormented by knowing the loss of an infinite good that could have been so easily attained if a person hadn't willed against the necessary means. When it comes to eternity, just an instant of realizing that would be like intense fire.
-
It sure sounds like fire: to be continually tormented by knowing the loss of an infinite good that could have been so easily attained if a person hadn't willed against the necessary means. When it comes to eternity, just an instant of realizing that would be like intense fire.
Right. I just don't like portraying God almost as if he were some sadist who likes tormenting people ... or that word in particular. If some human being enjoyed tormenting people, we'd consider him some kind of deviant, and probably evil. So I think we need to be careful about how we describe God's role in the punishment of souls in Hell. At the end of the day, whatever happens to them, they do to themselves.
-
I believe that it has something to do with there being fire in Heaven.
This is just pious speculation: I think there is fire in Heaven - a purely spiritual and Divine Fire that burns but does not consume either body or soul, like the burning bush in the desert. It is a fire of ardent love. If we get to Heaven, there we shall burn with love for all eternity.
And I further speculate that the effects of this spiritual fire pour into the glorified body, lighting it up. Whereas in hell, it is a material fire that reaches even unto the soul.
Again speculating, hell is a black, material fire, both hot and cold. It is an inverse of the fire of Heaven.
Purgatory is a fire juxtaposed between Heaven and hell. It has qualities of both places - wherefore I would conjecture that it is both a material fire and a spiritual fire.
Fire, of one kind or another, awaits every single man.
We are, then, permitted to choose how we shall burn.
-
There is certainly actual, real fire in hell. This is from the book on The Four Last Things (https://archive.org/details/thefourlastthing00martuoft/page/116/mode/2up) (this passage should also help answer the OP's question):
-
Right. I just don't like portraying God almost as if he were some sadist who likes tormenting people ... or that word in particular. If some human being enjoyed tormenting people, we'd consider him some kind of deviant, and probably evil. So I think we need to be careful about how we describe God's role in the punishment of souls in Hell. At the end of the day, whatever happens to them, they do to themselves.
.
I'm not sure this is all that accurate. We can't hold God to human standards, and absolutely God has every right to punish evil and is bound by His justice to do so. St. Thomas explains it simply by saying (https://www.newadvent.org/summa/5094.htm):
Reply to Objection 2. Although God (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) rejoices not in punishments as such, He rejoices in them as being ordered by His justice (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08571c.htm).
-
I believe that it has something to do with there being fire in Heaven.
This is just pious speculation: I think there is fire in Heaven - a purely spiritual and Divine Fire that burns but does not consume either body or soul, like the burning bush in the desert. It is a fire of ardent love. If we get to Heaven, there we shall burn with love for all eternity.
And I further speculate that the effects of this spiritual fire pour into the glorified body, lighting it up. Whereas in hell, it is a material fire that reaches even unto the soul.
Again speculating, hell is a black, material fire, both hot and cold. It is an inverse of the fire of Heaven.
Purgatory is a fire juxtaposed between Heaven and hell. It has qualities of both places - wherefore I would conjecture that it is both a material fire and a spiritual fire.
Fire, of one kind or another, awaits every single man.
We are, then, permitted to choose how we shall burn.
Ran out of thumbs up for you, Simeon!!
God is Fire!
Deut 4:24, The Lord your God is a consuming fire"); 9:3, The Lord your God will Himself go before you, a devouring and consuming fire; Heb 12:29, Our God is a consuming fire.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4125246#:~:text='Deut%204%3A24%2C%20%22,%22%20(%22Our%20God%20is%20a
-
I can't remember the source, maybe a sermon. But at some point i heard it said that putting people in hell was actually somewhat of a mercy, as putting a corrupted eternal soul in God's presence in heaven would be even worse than hellfire.
-
So, anyone think that burning heretics at the stake was also connected to the above opinions?
-
.
I'm not sure this is all that accurate. We can't hold God to human standards, and absolutely God has every right to punish evil and is bound by His justice to do so. St. Thomas explains it simply by saying (https://www.newadvent.org/summa/5094.htm):
Justice is not the same thing as characterizing God as a "tormentor". God rejoices in justice, not in the suffering of His creatures. Those are two separate things.
-
I believe that it has something to do with there being fire in Heaven.
This is just pious speculation: I think there is fire in Heaven - a purely spiritual and Divine Fire that burns but does not consume either body or soul, like the burning bush in the desert. It is a fire of ardent love. If we get to Heaven, there we shall burn with love for all eternity.
And I further speculate that the effects of this spiritual fire pour into the glorified body, lighting it up. Whereas in hell, it is a material fire that reaches even unto the soul.
Again speculating, hell is a black, material fire, both hot and cold. It is an inverse of the fire of Heaven.
Purgatory is a fire juxtaposed between Heaven and hell. It has qualities of both places - wherefore I would conjecture that it is both a material fire and a spiritual fire.
Fire, of one kind or another, awaits every single man.
We are, then, permitted to choose how we shall burn.
Agreed. For those souls that become assimilated to God, they become part of God's fire, and become assimilated into it. Those who do not become likened to God are burned by it.
God is a perfectly simple being. When we speak about God being merciful to some and just to others, forgiving some and "punishing" others, it's not God who changes or is "different" depending on the individual. It's the individual who is different, and for one individual God brings incredible joy, but to another this same God causes intense suffering (for those who resist being consumed by the fire).
We human beings with our puny intellects try to look at God from different perspectives, or consider one aspect or God at one time, and another at another, but God in Himself is not subject to these types of considerations. He is, and He is love. This same love that brings unspeakable joy to those who accept it causes suffering for those who don't want it.
-
Agreed. For those souls that become assimilated to God, they become part of God's fire, and become assimilated into it. Those who do not become likened to God are burned by it.
God is a perfectly simple being. When we speak about God being merciful to some and just to others, forgiving some and "punishing" others, it's not God who changes or is "different" depending on the individual. It's the individual who is different, and for one individual God brings incredible joy, but to another this same God causes intense suffering (for those who resist being consumed by the fire).
We human beings with our puny intellects try to look at God from different perspectives, or consider one aspect or God at one time, and another at another, but God in Himself is not subject to these types of considerations. He is, and He is love. This same love that brings unspeakable joy to those who accept it causes suffering for those who don't want it.
I looked at some short videos on what fire is. Seems it's mostly about molecules being ripped apart and others joined together.
Perhaps hell is like fire because those souls who are against God's will are constantly 'ripped apart' due to going against His love (and will). While those in heaven do not suffer because they go along with God's love (and will). While purgatory the 'bad' stuff gets ripped off until your desire for creatures is completely removed and you are fully submitted to God's will (and love). Pic related
(https://i.imgur.com/kOUCdf4.png)
-
So, anyone think that burning heretics at the stake was also connected to the above opinions?
Hello Cassini!
Different opinions were expressed. Can you narrow down your question?
As for the opinion I expressed, capital punishment is temporal punishment, whereas the fires of Heaven and Hell belong to either eternal punishment or eternal reward.
The fire of Purgatory is very interesting. I cannot remember, but I believe it is considered temporal punishment also, yet it participates eternity, at least with regard to the subjects of the punishment, who have been judged and are no longer living earthly existences.
I have absolutely no idea why the Church and State chose fire to execute heretics, but it's full of symbolism, no? It might be for the consideration and benefit of the witnessing public, as much as for the punishment and purgation of the condemned soul. It certainly has a chilling effect on crime, if you pardon the pun. :)
-
I looked at some short videos on what fire is. Seems it's mostly about molecules being ripped apart and others joined together.
Perhaps hell is like fire because those souls who are against God's will are constantly 'ripped apart' due to going against His love (and will). While those in heaven do not suffer because they go along with God's love (and will). While purgatory the 'bad' stuff gets ripped off until your desire for creatures is completely removed and you are fully submitted to God's will (and love). Pic related
Good point. Fire requires some kind of fuel for it to burn and doesn't exist in a vacuum. For those who conform themselves to God, the fire enters them and transforms them, whereas those who refuse are consumed by it and set on fire.
-
St. John Bosco had a vision of Hell.
[Souls in Hell] were all ablaze, but theirs was not an earthly fire with leaping tongues of flames. ... [This fire] did not incinerate, did not consume. ... We know that Our Lord always portrayed Hell in symbols because, had He described it as it really is, we would not have understood Him. No mortal can comprehend these things.
Interesting. Basically, it's something beyond our comprehension and "earthly fire" is a symbol that comes closest to describing what actually takes place there. There are lots of things that are beyond our comprehension, and so they're explained to us in terms we can understand. When we read descriptions of God's Mercy and God's Wrath, it's not as though God is Merciful sometimes or to some people and then Wrathful at other times and to other people. He is perfectly simple, always the same, never changing ... and so these differences are from the perspective of how the individual souls relate to God.
-
St. John Bosco had a vision of Hell.
Interesting. Basically, it's something beyond our comprehension and "earthly fire" is a symbol that comes closest to describing what actually takes place there. There are lots of things that are beyond our comprehension, and so they're explained to us in terms we can understand. When we read descriptions of God's Mercy and God's Wrath, it's not as though God is Merciful sometimes or to some people and then Wrathful at other times and to other people. He is perfectly simple, always the same, never changing ... and so these differences are from the perspective of how the individual souls relate to God.
Yeah, it's similar to how figurative language is used i.e God got angry. Since God does not change. So this language is used to give us understanding.
(As a side note I really hate arguing with dishonest anti-christs who don't care or ignore this when you explain it to them)
-
St. John Bosco had a vision of Hell.
Interesting. Basically, it's something beyond our comprehension and "earthly fire" is a symbol that comes closest to describing what actually takes place there. There are lots of things that are beyond our comprehension, and so they're explained to us in terms we can understand. When we read descriptions of God's Mercy and God's Wrath, it's not as though God is Merciful sometimes or to some people and then Wrathful at other times and to other people. He is perfectly simple, always the same, never changing ... and so these differences are from the perspective of how the individual souls relate to God.
Also makes me think about.
As it is written: Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy; and I will shew mercy to whom I will shew
-He answered: I will shew thee all good, and I will proclaim in the name of the Lord before thee: and I will have mercy on whom I will, and I will be merciful to whom it shall please me
-
Yeah, it's similar to how figurative language is used i.e God got angry. Since God does not change. So this language is used to give us understanding.
(As a side note I really hate arguing with dishonest anti-christs who don't care or ignore this when you explain it to them)
Right, sometimes we use excessively anthropomorphic language to describe God, almost as if God were losing His temper at some point, that He's patient and merciful, but then if you cross a certain line He loses His temper and lashes out in anger.
Conversely, there was an early Church Father, a monk, who made the following analogy about prayer:
There's a man out in his boat fishing. At some point, he feels something catch on his line and begins to reel it in. It gets closer and closer, until his catch is within his reach. Then he suddenly realizes that his line is stuck on a large boulder and that the entire time he's been pulling his boat closer to the immovable object. When we pray, we're not bending God to our will, or drawing God closer to us. Instead, we're drawing ourselves closer to God. God doesn't move or change. We do.
-
Wow, I can see in some future book on theology references to the fire of Hell:
St Augustine says.....
St Thomas says......
St Theresa says....
CIF says........
-
The people in Hell didn't want Heaven and didn't want God. God had to put those souls somewhere. That place is Hell.
However, the pain of loss that one experiences when separated forever from the God for whom you were made is so bad that God, in is infinite mercy, gives you the fire to distract from the pain of loss - the loss of God for whom we were made to know, love and serve, from the loss of Heaven for which we were made.
So, the fire is a distraction because the interior pain of losing the one and only thing for which you were made is too horrible.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctpSFXi7XV4&list=PLnlOn-PNk1_Ue2a8QLAKB2wkvZ98Gc_94&index=18
Start from about 10:00 he is talking about the angels disobeying God due to the future of the incarnation
"the loving flame of God' love turned to a torment for those whose lovelessness made them ice cold"
So perhaps since you will have a physical body in hell you will get to feel the fire of God's love physically?
-
So perhaps since you will have a physical body in hell you will get to feel the fire of God's love physically?
Deuteronomy 32:22
[22] A fire is kindled in my wrath, and shall burn even to the lowest hell: and shall devour the earth with her increase, and shall burn the foundations of the mountains.
-
Deuteronomy 32:22
[22] A fire is kindled in my wrath, and shall burn even to the lowest hell: and shall devour the earth with her increase, and shall burn the foundations of the mountains.
I think you miss the point a bit. God doesn't have different "emotions". He's a perfectly simple Being (God is), so whether God's love (God is love) fills someone with unspeakable happiness or burns them in torment is dependent entirely on the object of His love. If someone (basically) let's God's love into his being and lets it flow into and through him, it's unspeakable joy, but it someone resists it and blocks it out, it causes unspeakable torment. These expressions, partial anthropomorphisms for God, of God's Justice vs. Mercy, His Love vs. Wrath ... it's not that God has these different aspects where He loves someone but hates someone else, where He's pleased one day and then gets "angry" or wrathful the next. He doesn't change and He isn't different depending on circuмstances. We change and we differ.
One way I sometimes think about it is with regard to pressure. Let's say you take something with a relatively thin metal shell and submerge it deep into the ocean. As it gets deeper and deeper, the outside pressure gets extreme, to the point that it'll eventually be crushed and smashed. But if you leave an opening in this metal shell, and the water goes inside it, the pressure equalizes and the container will retain its shape and not be damaged. Similarly, for those in whom God's love dwells, there's a similar kind of "equalization". But those who don't have it inside them suffer extreme torture of His love trying to get in ... as it were.
-
but if someone resists it and blocks it out, it causes unspeakable torment.
OK, but I don't think anyone in hell is blocking it out.
The vision of hell at Fatima:
Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened, or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames which issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear.
-
OK, but I don't think anyone in hell is blocking it out.
The vision of hell at Fatima:
OK, so? They're absolutely blocking out God's love, and that's what produces this effect on them ... despite the fact that physical metaphors fall short of describing it. But you have to get your mind around the basic fact that God doesn't differ or change depending on who He's looking at or thinking of or interacting with. God is the same, and so that same God Whom some experience as love, happiness, and peace, others experience as wrathful (even though He's the same God and is no different). Another metaphor that I use is that some find bliss in listening to classical music. Others, however, if they're asked to listen to classical music, say, in music class in school, find it abhorrent, are crawling out of their skin with boredom and disgust, can't wait to get out of there, etc. It's the same music, but it causes one happiness and another unhappiness and pain. It's the same music, but different listeners.
There was the story of a saint who saw hell and pleaded with God to let a soul out of Hell. So God did so and put the soul in Heaven. That soul absolutely hated it there, couldn't stand it. So the saint asked God to at least put the soul in Purgatory. At that point the soul complained that it was neither here nor there and felt ill at ease. So God then responded by letting the soul pick where he wanted to go. And the soul dove right back into Hell. It's ultimately where he wanted to be. No one goes to Hell who doesn't choose to go there. To extend my analogy with the music, some people can't get enough of wild parties, loud music, drugs, impurity, etc. It's all they think about, partying. For those of us with our sensibilities, the thought of spending even a minute at one of these parties is repugnant. So they choose what they want, and we choose what we want.
-
OK, so? They're absolutely blocking out God's love, and that's what produces this effect on them ... despite the fact that physical metaphors fall short of describing it.
[ . . . ]
Another metaphor that I use is that some find bliss in listening to classical music. Others, however, if they're asked to listen to classical music, say, in music class in school, find it abhorrent, are crawling out of their skin with boredom and disgust, can't wait to get out of there, etc. It's the same music, but it causes one happiness and another unhappiness and pain. It's the same music, but different listeners.
That's precisely my point.
People that don't like classical music are not blocking it out when they hear it, truly they hear it.
Likewise, if souls don't want God's love, and the fire is supposed to be God's love, then they're not blocking it out, they're experiencing it in anguish.
-
OK, but I don't think anyone in hell is blocking it out.
The vision of hell at Fatima:
It think rejection might be more fitting, those who go to hell are fixed in their will against God.
-
OK, so? They're absolutely blocking out God's love, and that's what produces this effect on them ... despite the fact that physical metaphors fall short of describing it. But you have to get your mind around the basic fact that God doesn't differ or change depending on who He's looking at or thinking of or interacting with. God is the same, and so that same God Whom some experience as love, happiness, and peace, others experience as wrathful (even though He's the same God and is no different). Another metaphor that I use is that some find bliss in listening to classical music. Others, however, if they're asked to listen to classical music, say, in music class in school, find it abhorrent, are crawling out of their skin with boredom and disgust, can't wait to get out of there, etc. It's the same music, but it causes one happiness and another unhappiness and pain. It's the same music, but different listeners.
There was the story of a saint who saw hell and pleaded with God to let a soul out of Hell. So God did so and put the soul in Heaven. That soul absolutely hated it there, couldn't stand it. So the saint asked God to at least put the soul in Purgatory. At that point the soul complained that it was neither here nor there and felt ill at ease. So God then responded by letting the soul pick where he wanted to go. And the soul dove right back into Hell. It's ultimately where he wanted to be. No one goes to Hell who doesn't choose to go there. To extend my analogy with the music, some people can't get enough of wild parties, loud music, drugs, impurity, etc. It's all they think about, partying. For those of us with our sensibilities, the thought of spending even a minute at one of these parties is repugnant. So they choose what they want, and we choose what we want.
I agree. And I thank God for giving me the grace to despise these worldly things. Honestly sometimes I think ordering groceries by delivery would be worth not having to hear the music at the supermarkets....though it's a suffering I can offer up to God.
-
Interesting debate lads.
Ever heard of someone living on Earth who wanted to go to Hell? Surely that wish happens when one dies and is judged to go to Hell. The thought terrifies me. Fear of Hell is enough to keep anyone on the straight and narrow. Hell is probably filled with people who didn't believe it exists.