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Traditional Catholic Faith => The Catholic Bunker => Topic started by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 11:37:52 AM

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 11:37:52 AM
I am certainly not in the habit of making predictions or anything, but I wanted to put this out there after some reading that I did last night.

Hopefully, most readers here are familiar with the apparitions of Our Lady at Garabandal, Spain in the 1960's.

Part of the message she gave said that there would be a Warning, whereby the consciences of the entire world would be corrected by an illumination of the soul as God views them. In other words, everyone will see themselves as God sees them, and all the things they have done wrong. The sorrow of this will convert souls back to God, or redouble the devotion of those already turned to Him.

Then, Our Lady stated there would be a Miracle, which will affirm that the Warning came from God, and that the Miracle will stand until the end of time.

One of the four seers knows the date of the Miracle, and that the Warning will occur within the year prior to that date.

I had not visited the Garabandal websites for several years, and I wanted to revisit the information. I noticed that a great many of the priests who endorsed it and others close to the event (including one seer herself) have passed away. It occured to me that God may have taken some of the souls closest to Garabandal in order to spare them the Warning - which is said by the seers to be a most terrible event, though it only lasts a few minutes, so terrible that people would rather be dead than experience it.

There are certain events that have transpired in the past two years, which indicate to me that the Warning may be at our door.

to be continued...
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Matto on December 26, 2016, 11:44:59 AM
I don't know much about Garabandal but I do not believe in it. Why? Because I read that the visionaries said that the Blessed Mother or maybe God (I forget which) told them that a blind man would be cured of his blindness and that the first thing he would see when he regained his sight was the miracle. That blind man died without receiving his sight back. So because this miracle that was predicted never happened I do not believe in it.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 11:45:43 AM
There are things the seers were told about the time of the Miracle, which are as follows:

Quote
At Garabandal the messages give us a clue as to when these great events are likely to occur. We are told that the Miracle will occur thus:

1. On a Thursday at 8.30pm;
2. On the Feast Day of a martyr of the Blessed Sacrament;
3. On a Feast of great ecclesiastical importance;
4. In March, April or May; and
5. Conchita has been told by our Lady to reveal the exact date, 8 days beforehand.


This seems to be decipherable, particularly if one accepts that it must occur within the lifetime of the still living Conchita, now in her 60s.

I thus calculate as follows.

The next time there will be a Feast of truly great ecclesiastical importance on a Thursday in March, April or May, and which coincides with the Feast of a martyr of the Blessed Sacrament is

Maundy Thursday 13 April 2017


That date is the Feast of Spanish martyr for the Eucharist, Prince St Hermenegild, whose own father, the King of Visigothic Spain, ordered his execution because he would not take communion from an Arian heretical priest. Prince Hermenegild was imprisoned in Tarragona or Toledo by his father, King Leovigild. During his captivity in the tower of Seville, an Arian bishop was sent to St. Hermenegild during the Easter Season, but he would not accept Holy Communion from the hands of that heretical prelate. King Leovigild ordered him beheaded and he was martyred on 13 April 586.

It is highly significant that this is the feast of a saint who would not take communion from an heretical priest since there are many today who would consider such an action far too "scrupulous" and who quite happily receive communion from priests with heterodox views and from non-Catholic clergy.

That date is also remarkable in that, as well as being exactly 100 years since the Fatima visions in 1917, it is one of the few times when Maundy Thursday, the great Feast of the Institution of the Blessed Sacrament, coincides exactly in both the Eastern and the Western churches. It will also coincide with the Jєωιѕн Feast of the Passover.

We shall know if this is correct because Conchita will confirm the date, 8 days before, there will be a permanent sign at the pine grove in Garabandal and it will be preceded by the Warning.

We can expect the Warning within a year of that date and thus any time after 13 April 2016.



This calculation was made in 2013.

http://romanchristendom.blogspot.com/2013/04/13-april-2017-forthcoming-miracle-at.html
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 11:51:03 AM
There is another fascinating aspect to the apparitions that were given to the girls, in that they were simple peasant children with no worldly knowledge at all at the time, yet they were given a word and a piece of information that is critical in determining the timing of the Warning.

The girls were told there would be an evil "synod" called before the Warning. Listen to the nun in the video below:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/V392zrQYwRQ[/youtube]
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 11:53:55 AM
Here is a compilation of interview notes with the seers regarding the Warning:

http://www.garabandal.org/News/Garabandal_Warning_Miracle_Interviews.shtml

Fascinating reading.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 12:00:02 PM
Now, this is where I am adding my own observations of recent events and how they relate to the timing of the Warning, and my thought that it may indeed be very, very SOON.

Quote
In May of 1994 -- 77 years after Our Lady first appeared to the three children at Fatima, Portugal -- a French priest by the name of Raymond Arnette was listening to a CD entitled "Mysterium Fidei," with French lyrics and sung by French choirs. As he was listening devoutly, suddenly the music faded into the background and a clear voice, which was perceived quite normally and not as an interior inspiration, said: "L'eglise saignera de toutes ses plaies", that is, "The Church will bleed from all her wounds."

Then, there followed this text:

"There will be a wicked council planned and prepared that will change the countenance of the Church. Many will lose the Faith; confusion will reign everywhere. The sheep will search for their shepherds in vain. A schism will tear apart the holy tunic of My Son. This will be the end of times, foretold in the Holy Scriptures and recalled to memory by Me in many places. The abomination of abominations will reach its peak and it will bring the chastisement announced at La Salette. My Son's arm, which I will not be able to hold back anymore, will punish this poor world, which must expiate its crimes.  One will only speak about wars and revolutions. The elements of nature will be unchained and will cause anguish even among the best (the most courageous). The Church will bleed from all Her wounds. Happy are they who will persevere and search for refuge in My Heart, because in the end My Immaculate Heart will triumph."

After this message, Fr. Arnette only heard one more sentence:

"This is the Third Secret of Fatima."


It is my opinion that in this locution, Fr. Arnette was not being given information about Vatican II Council, which was long prior, since this locution happened in 1994. It is my opinion that he was being given information about a FUTURE wicked council, that would take place after 1994.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 12:10:47 PM
So, what was this future wicked council that would cause a schism that Fr. Arnette was warned about?

It is none other than the Synod on the Family, held on October 13th (the anninversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, no less!) in 2014.

This Synod caused the greatest upheaval in the Church since the Vatican II Council in the 1960's.

At the time, the word "schism" was thrown about heavily by even the mainstream media reporting on the Synod.

See these examples at the time:

Quote
The docuмent also seems to frankly change the church's tone toward gαy people: While it re-emphasizes church teaching against same-sex marriage, it also asks blunt questions of the wider church.

"ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a fraternal space in our communities?" it asks.
"Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home," it continues.

"Are our communities capable of providing that, accepting and valuing their sɛҳuąƖ orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?"


source:
https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/synod-releases-docuмent-new-tone-calling-mercy-listening

And from the NY Times:

Quote
But something very different is happening under Pope Francis. In his public words and gestures, through the men he’s elevated and the debates he’s encouraged, this pope has repeatedly signaled a desire to rethink issues where Catholic teaching is in clear tension with Western social life — sex and marriage, divorce and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.

And in the synod on the family, which concluded a week ago in Rome, the prelates in charge of the proceedings — men handpicked by the pontiff — formally proposed such a rethinking, issuing a docuмent that suggested both a general shift in the church’s attitude toward nonmarital relationships and a specific change, admitting the divorced-and-remarried to communion, that conflicts sharply with the church’s historic teaching on marriage’s indissolubility.

At which point there was a kind of chaos.

Such a reversal would put the church on the brink of a precipice.

Of course it would be welcomed by some progressive Catholics and hailed by the secular press. But it would leave many of the church’s bishops and theologians in an untenable position, and it would sow confusion among the church’s orthodox adherents — encouraging doubt and defections, apocalypticism and paranoia (remember there is another pope still living!) and eventually even a real schism.


source:
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/opinion/sunday/ross-douthat-the-pope-and-the-precipice.html?_r=1

I believe the "abomination of abominations" "reaching its peak" spoken of in Fr. Arnette's locution is the gαy agenda, which has accelerated unbelievably since 2010. And this Synod occured just before the promotion of the transgender agenda hit the media. The transgender agenda began only SIX MONTHS after the Synod in April 2015, with the "coming out" of Bruce Jenner as "Caitlyn."

 :shocked:
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 12:22:21 PM
This evil Synod on the Family of October 13th 2014 has now accelerated the schism in the Church, because of the scandalous docuмent Amoris Laetitia, written on March 19, 2016 by Pope Francis.

It has accelerated the schism so much that four Cardinals have recently issued a dubia in November 2016, attempting to correct Pope Francis on his heretical error:

Read here:

Four Cardinals Issue Dubia
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2876-four-cardinals-throw-down-gauntlet-before-cunning-pope

Vatican Schism:
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2888-il-boom-cardinal-dubia-and-roman-schism

Bp. Athanasius Schneider Defends Four Cardinals' Dubia
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2894-bishop-athanasius-schneider-on-the-dubia-a-prophetic-voice-of-four-cardinals-of-the-holy-roman-catholic-church

 :incense:
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 12:36:53 PM
Therefore, if the date of April 13th, 2017 - Maundy Thursday - is accurate as a possibility for the Miracle, this would mean that the Warning is possibly very, very imminent.

I am inclined to believe this to be possible, due to the horrible state of the world, and due to the significance of the year of 2017 as a whole, being the 100th anniversary of the apparitions of Our Lady at Fatima.

This date's close proximity to an "evil synod" spoken of by the seers at Garabandal, seems very significant to me.

Also, Fr. Arnette's locution about a "wicked council" and the "peak of the abomination of abominations" seems an important corroboration of the Garabandal message.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 12:47:00 PM
There is another possible date for the Miracle, which is slightly more distant in the future - that is April 11th 2019.

This is the Feast of St. Stanislaus, Bp. of Krakow, who was a Eucharistic Martyr, as he was slain by King Boleslaw while celebrating Mass.

St. Stanislaus also famously raised Piotr from the dead to testify in his conflict with King Boleslaw.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislaus_of_Szczepan%C3%B3w
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: nctradcath on December 26, 2016, 12:57:00 PM
False apparition.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: nctradcath
False apparition.


Thanks for your input.

 :facepalm:
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Nadir on December 26, 2016, 06:52:22 PM
Excerpt from http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/Garabandal2.html
(The numbering has disappeared in the copying/pasting - see the original for the 1 to 20 points)

Quote
NEGATIVE ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE SO-CALLED APPARITIONS OF GARABANDAL

 All eight bishops of Santander have from 1961 up to now, supported by the Holy See in Rome, publicly declared that no supernatural apparitions had taken place in Garabandal.
 
The parish priest of Garabandal told me during my third visit there on 03/10/2000 after mass, that the so-called apparitions merely caused problems in the Spanish Church.

He handed me over the docuмent with the definite, negative, final judgment of the present bishop of Santander, Mgr. Villaplana.

Conchita said the pope (at that time Paul VI) as well as Padre Pio would still see the miracle. Both have been dead for a long time.

In Conchita's diary one can read (p.164 Dutch edition) that Paul VI knew the date of the great Miracle.

On 13/04/1995 almost 20,000 pilgrims were present at Garabandal. Many from the USA who had paid $2000 American dollars for their air-tickets. Once more the date was false.

Prof. Rutten, the retired economist from the Netherlands, now foretells this miracle is going to happen on 11/04/2002. This fantasist was just as sure of the fact that the pope would proclaim the fifth Marian Dogma (via Amsterdam) on 31/05/2001 ...

According to Conchita the present pope (John Paul II) is the last pope on earth. Many other false seers suggest the next pope might well be the Anti-Christ. This way the good faithful are soaked off from the local bishop. Because the latter does not recognize the apparitions, he is a bad bishop without faith. Afterwards they are incited against the next pope and so there appears a schism with Rome and in the end Satan is the winner.

The leader of the Garabandal center in the Netherlands, Mr. Wim L., said during the Dutch TV Program, Crosspoint on 20/05/01 that he himself did not know if Garabandal came from Satan or from God.

In the same program they showed one of the Van der Maazen brothers, who keeps a souvenir-shop in Garabandal. The other brother who thought he would be cured on the day of the miracle, has already died. Wim L. told me over the phone that Barry Hanratty of the Garabandal center in New York had discovered that the Van der Maazen brothers cheated with the sale of medals containing little pieces of the so-called missal of Jacinta or Loli, that the text on the little pieces appears to be a Dutch text! Yet the same organizer Wim L. permitted Mr. Jef Van der Maazen to claim on T.V. the Miracle would happen in 2002. (in imitation of Rutten, the other fantasist)

Already in 1966 Conchita wanted to enter the Carmelite Convent in Pamplona. "Jesus" told her to go back to the world. In 1973 she married the much older Patrick Keena, divorced from his first wife, whom he had previously married before the law. According to some people he had two children from this first marriage or even two children from two different women. Not one family member was present at Conchita's wedding.

The same main seer, Conchita, made a museum of her house in Garabandal. She has since sold that house and owns a house in New York and a flat in Fatima as well. Compare them with Bernadette in Lourdes.

The same Conchita admitted to Father J. Pelletier that she herself had stolen the Host from the tabernacle for the so-called mystical communion.

Just before the so-called apparition in Garabandal the four seers had stolen apples.
Conchita was often caught in contradictions.

All four seers have already denied the apparitions really took place.

Not one of the seers still lives in the Garabandal-village.

The whole Garabandal story bursts with sensation.

Many of the so-called mystic phenomenons point out satanic influence. Remember the backwards running parties with the head bend back. Which theological value has such a thing? Conchita's convent vocation hot lost and she married a divorced man. She even said the Blessed Mother played hide and seek with her. On the other hand she even helped find shoes which had been lost by the pilgrims. The seers gave sweets to little Jesus and were allowed to take him into their arms. The Blessed Mother told the seers she perfumed the brushes of her slippers .... This Pope would be the last Pope. The un-Biblical Warning, the ever postponed Miracle are pure deceit and passion for the sensation. Satanic?

Typical too: the Garabandal - fans always try to undermine the local bishop's authority as well as that of the next pope. Once again dangerous phantasm. Who incites to disobedience? God or Satan?
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 07:16:23 PM
The opinion of Rick Salbato is of little interest to me. He's a crank, and there is so much error in what he wrote, it's embarrassing for him.

I'll take St. Padre Pio's opinion on Garabandal over Salbato's every time - case closed.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: nctradcath on December 26, 2016, 07:52:32 PM
You have legitimate docuмentation that Padre Pio actually wrote about the apparition and not just hearsay? Thier is great deal of falsehood attributed to him.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Nadir on December 26, 2016, 08:05:02 PM
Quote from: mw2016
The opinion of Rick Salbato is of little interest to me. He's a crank, and there is so much error in what he wrote, it's embarrassing for him.

I'll take St. Padre Pio's opinion on Garabandal over Salbato's every time - case closed.


St Pio has no jurisdiction to judge, and is not infallible as some presume that he is.

Rick Salbato may be a crank; I don't know the fellow. The local bishop is the authority.
So take it from him here:

http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/unapprov/garaband/enbishop.pdf

Quote
BISHOPRIC OF SANTANDER
 Santander, 23rd August 2001-10-05

Mr Donal Foley
Nottingham

Dear sisters and brothers in Christ,
 
Recently a number of people, like yourself, have approached me as Bishop of Santander,
enquiring about the alleged manifestations of Garabandal and, in particular, about the position of the hierarchy of the Church regarding this matter.

I have to say that:
1- All the bishops in the Dioceses, from 1961 to 1970, stated they had no evidence to support the supernatural nature of the apparitions that some people claimed were happening at that time.
2- In the month of December 1977 Mon. del Val, Bishop of Santander, expressed his agreement with his predecessors, and stated that in the six years he had been at the Bishopric there had been no other phenomenon.
3- However Mon. del Val himself, after the confusion or enthusiasm of the first years,
commissioned an interdisciplinary study to study those phenomena in more depth. The
conclusion of the study was in agreement with that of the previous statement given by the Bishops, that is, there was nothing supernatural in those supposed apparitions.
4- This study was completed around the time when I took charge of the Dioceses in 1991. Taking advantage of my visit to Rome for the visit ad Limina that year, I showed the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith the study and asked them for guidance on my pastoral advice about this case.
5- Dated 28th November 1992, the Congregation sent me their reply in which it is stated that, after having examined carefully all the docuмents, they did not find it necessary to intervene directly or to withdraw this affair from the ordinary jurisdiction of the Bishop of Santander, which is his by right. Previous declarations from the Holy See agree with this statement. In the same letter it is suggested that if I considered it appropriate, I should publish a declaration to reiterate the fact that there is no evidence to support the supernatural nature of the alleged apparitions, and so make my own the unanimous position of my predecessors.
6- As the statements of my predecessors who had studied the case had been clear and unanimous, I did not consider it necessary to make a new public declaration and I wished to avoid drawing attention to matters which were now well in the past. However, I did consider it relevant to write this report as a direct answer to those people who seek orientation on this affair, which I now consider concluded, accepting the decisions of my predecessors, which I make my own,
and the directions of the Holy See.
7- Concerning the celebration of mass in Garabandal, following the dispositions of my
predecessors, I only permit them to be celebrated in the parish church with prior authorisation of the parish priest, and ask that no reference should be made to the alleged apparitions.

Hoping this information is of some help to you,

+ José Vilaplana
Bishop of Santander
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: AMDGJMJ on December 26, 2016, 08:43:51 PM
Oops... Started to reply and then saw that Nadir already posted what I was going to...  :-)
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 11:38:12 PM
Quote from: Nadir
Quote from: mw2016
The opinion of Rick Salbato is of little interest to me. He's a crank, and there is so much error in what he wrote, it's embarrassing for him.

I'll take St. Padre Pio's opinion on Garabandal over Salbato's every time - case closed.


St Pio has no jurisdiction to judge, and is not infallible as some presume that he is.



I would never think a Saint's opinion during his life to be "infallible" and I never said anything like that. I said I value Padre Pio's opinion much more than a nasty-tempered, uncharitable layman's opinion on this topic.

Here's the latest on what is happening in Garabandal. The Church was renovated and consecrated by the current bishop of Santander, Bp. Vicente Jimenez Zamora. So again, an opinion of the bishop from 2001 who wasn't witness to the events, doesn't really carry a lot of weight for me. But, this current bishop doesn't seem to have a problem with the faithful's devotion to the apparitions.

Many pics at link, scroll down:

http://www.garabandal.org/News/San_Sebastian_Renovations.shtml
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 26, 2016, 11:54:43 PM
The level of hostility that is displayed toward the Our Lady of Garabandal apparition is bizarre to me.

Rather than quote from some random, hostile opinions, how about reading what Bp. del Val Gallo, the bishop who witnessed the ecstasies and conducted a six-year investigation, says about them?

This interview was given in 1992:

Quote


Q. Isn't it true that out of all those bishops, you are the only one who actually witnessed the girls in ecstasy?

A. I think so. I think I am the only one. I heard say that Conchita had made some ecstasies in front of Bishop Puchol but I am not sure. Yes, I think that I was the only one who saw the ecstasies.

Q. Did you ever imagine that God would place you in such a unique situation?

A. I have always tried to be in the hands of God. I always try regardless of whether it is a difficult situation or a joyful one, and this one (that is Garabandal) is both hard and joyful at the same time.

Q. When did you remove all the restrictions that the previous bishops imposed on the priests and why?

A. I don't remember clearly the exact date. It was done step by step. I told the pastor to start (removing the restrictions) and then it was just announced publicly. But I don't remember the exact date. I think it was about six years before I retired which was last year in September.

Q. Have the Garabandal apparitions ever been condemned by the church?

A. No. The previous bishops did not admit that the apparitions were supernatural but to condemn them, no, that word had never been used.

Q. When did you reopen the study of the apparitions and who did the study, how was it conducted and when was it concluded?

A. It was finished in April of 1991 during a reunion we held in Madrid but it was not opened on a specific date. It was opened six years earlier, taking notes of the circuмstances here and there. In the beginning, we were going little by little so it took about six or seven years before the study was concluded. Until then I had gone by what the other bishops had done. They had said no. But then it seemed to me that I should personally do something myself. I needed to do a personal investigation because the responsibility demands this of oneself so I had to do something about it and because I thought it was something serious that had happened in Garabandal. It seemed to me that because it was so serious, I had to find out for myself exactly what happened in Garabandal.

Q. What has become of the results?

A. The results were brought to The Holy See, to The Sacred Congregation for The Doctrine of The Faith. That is where you have to take things like this so that is where the docuмents are. They were given to Cardinal Ratzinger.

Q. Were the Garabandal Messages found to be theologically correct and in accordance to the teachings of the Catholic Church?

A. I think yes. Theologically correct, yes. But one of the details bothers me like the one: "Many bishops and cardinals are walking the path of perdition" it seems to me to be a bit severe. The Messages do not say anything that is against the doctrine of the church.



Knowing what the state of the Church is today, I find it a bit humorous that the detail that bothers him and seems severe is the Holy Virgin's statement that "many bishops and cardinals are walking the path of perdition." That seems like the understatement of the CENTURY to me!

http://www.garabandal.org/vigil/interview.shtml
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 12:16:07 AM
x

Quote
As always, the Church has acted with great prudence toward the apparitions. It took thirteen years for the Church to give the official approval to the Fatima apparitions even after seventy thousand people witnessed the miracle of the sun.

A special emissary from Holy Office was sent to Garabandal to investigate the witnesses of the apparitions. By special request of the Pro-Secretary of the same Congregation of the Faith, Cardinal Ottaviani, Conchita went to Rome in 1966 accompanied by her mother and a priest. She met with Cardinal Ottaviani and other officials of the Vatican. With Cardinal Marella she was received in a private audience by Pope Paul VI.

For obvious reasons, nothing more can be said regarding this intervention of Rome. However it is necessary to confirm this visit of Conchita to the Holy Office in order to refute rumors that no private audience with His Holiness had been granted to Conchita. He said to her "Conchita I bless you and with me the whole Church blesses you."


Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 12:21:45 AM
Fr. Gruner was told by Fr. Gabriele Amorth that the Chastisements of Fatima were imminent.

Fr. Gruner wrote about this in March 2015.

They both passed away shortly after (Fr. Gruner only a month later, and Fr. Amorth just died in September) and I think God took them to spare them the horrors of these punishments upon the world.

http://www.garabandal.org/News/Father_Gruner_Fatima.shtml
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 12:28:35 AM
The seers were given visions of the Great Chastisement that will occur as a punishment on the world.

Quote
The two Messages of June 19 - 23, 1962 were accompanied by the dreadful visions of the threatened Chastisement.


Mari Loli describes these visions as follows:

Although we continued to see the Blessed Virgin we saw a great multitude of people who suffered greatly and screamed in anguish. The Virgin explained to us how this GREAT PUNISHMENT would come, because there would come a moment a time in which the Church would seem to perish, as if it were finished or disappearing. The Church would suffer a great trial! We asked the Virgin how this GREAT PUNISHMENT would be called and She said it was called COMMUNISM.

Also, she made us see how the great chastisement for all humanity would come and how it comes directly from God. In a certain moment not a single motor or machine will function. A terrible heat wave will come, and men will suffer a burning thirst. Desperately they will look for water but with the intense heat it will evaporate. With this there will enter into the people a desperation and they will attempt to kill each other, but in those moments their strength will fail and they will fall to the ground. God then will make them see that IT IS HE who directly has permitted all this.

Finally we saw a multitude of people enveloped in flames - desperately they threw themselves into the seas and lakes but upon entering the water far from putting out the flames the water was boiling and seemed to help the flames burn more.

I asked the Blessed Virgin to take all our children with Her. But She said that when this happens they will all be adults.



http://www.garabandal.org/Communism/Communism_Messages_June_19_23_1962.shtml
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Nadir on December 27, 2016, 01:16:19 AM
Quote from: mw2016
Quote from: Nadir
Quote from: mw2016
The opinion of Rick Salbato is of little interest to me. He's a crank, and there is so much error in what he wrote, it's embarrassing for him.

I'll take St. Padre Pio's opinion on Garabandal over Salbato's every time - case closed.


St Pio has no jurisdiction to judge, and is not infallible as some presume that he is.



I would never think a Saint's opinion during his life to be "infallible" and I never said anything like that. I said I value Padre Pio's opinion much more than a nasty-tempered, uncharitable layman's opinion on this topic.

Here's the latest on what is happening in Garabandal. The Church was renovated and consecrated by the current bishop of Santander, Bp. Vicente Jimenez Zamora. So again, an opinion of the bishop from 2001 who wasn't witness to the events, doesn't really carry a lot of weight for me. But, this current bishop doesn't seem to have a problem with the faithful's devotion to the apparitions.

Many pics at link, scroll down:

http://www.garabandal.org/News/San_Sebastian_Renovations.shtml


It seems quite an old church and has no doubt suffered some wear and tear over the years. What have the renovations to the village Church got to do with the alleged apparitions?  The bishop's appearance at the ceremony does not give the stamp of approval to the alleged apparitions. You seem to be grasping at straws here.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Nadir on December 27, 2016, 01:21:25 AM
Quote from: mw2016
Fr. Gruner was told by Fr. Gabriele Amorth that the Chastisements of Fatima were imminent.

Fr. Gruner wrote about this in March 2015.

They both passed away shortly after (Fr. Gruner only a month later, and Fr. Amorth just died in September) and I think God took them to spare them the horrors of these punishments upon the world.

http://www.garabandal.org/News/Father_Gruner_Fatima.shtml


God took them because their time on this earth was up. Their work was done! Fr Amorth died at the ripe old age of 91.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 01:27:54 AM
Quote from: nctradcath
You have legitimate docuмentation that Padre Pio actually wrote about the apparition and not just hearsay? Thier is great deal of falsehood attributed to him.




Quote
From the book The Final Hour (Michael Brown) page 141 on the topic of Padre Pio's belief in Garabandal: “Asked on another occasion about its authenticity, he answered curtly, 'How many times must she appear there to be believed?'"

Joey Lomangino’s recall of when he talked to Padre Pio: “We made arrangements to come back again that same day and greeted Padre Pio in the cloister. When we knelt down, we said to him, “Padre Pio, is it true that the Virgin is appearing to the four girls of Garabandal?” And he said, "Yes." We said, “Padre Pio, should we go there? He said, "Yes, why not?" And that’s how it happened. Because I received the assurance from Padre Pio that the Virgin was appearing and that he permitted me to go, then I wasn't afraid and I went."
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 01:37:17 AM
Quote from: Nadir

It seems quite an old church and has no doubt suffered some wear and tear over the years. What have the renovations to the village Church got to do with the alleged apparitions?  The bishop's appearance at the ceremony does not give the stamp of approval to the alleged apparitions. You seem to be grasping at straws here.


You seem to be grasping at straws trying to come up with lame reasons to disregard the message of Our Lady. Why would you do that? Do you have a problem with doing penance for the conversion of sinners? Does it offend you that she said the world will be warned and punished for its sins, if it doesn't turn back to Him? Does it offend you that this message was delivered to poor, uneducated 12 year-old girls??

Really, your skepticism is rather absurd.

What do the 2012 renovations of a 17th century Church have to do with the message? Probably a lot, considering it is in a completely remote location and they are likely going to be expecting an influx of pilgrims when the Warning happens.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Nadir on December 27, 2016, 02:15:45 AM
I asked:
 
Quote
What have the renovations to the village Church got to do with the alleged apparitions?


I did not mention any message. Obviously if nothing supernatural occurred there, there was no "message".

When you answer my question I might consider answering yours, but they are largely irrelevant. There is no necessity to make an attack on me simply for agreeing with the judgement of the Bishops of the Santander Diocese.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: nctradcath on December 27, 2016, 09:23:26 AM
Quote from: mw2016
Quote from: nctradcath
You have legitimate docuмentation that Padre Pio actually wrote about the apparition and not just hearsay? Thier is great deal of falsehood attributed to him.




Quote
From the book The Final Hour (Michael Brown) page 141 on the topic of Padre Pio's belief in Garabandal: “Asked on another occasion about its authenticity, he answered curtly, 'How many times must she appear there to be believed?'"

Joey Lomangino’s recall of when he talked to Padre Pio: “We made arrangements to come back again that same day and greeted Padre Pio in the cloister. When we knelt down, we said to him, “Padre Pio, is it true that the Virgin is appearing to the four girls of Garabandal?” And he said, "Yes." We said, “Padre Pio, should we go there? He said, "Yes, why not?" And that’s how it happened. Because I received the assurance from Padre Pio that the Virgin was appearing and that he permitted me to go, then I wasn't afraid and I went."


The above is all hearsay. None of it is from his works.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 11:46:55 AM
Quote from: Nadir
I asked:
 
Quote
What have the renovations to the village Church got to do with the alleged apparitions?


 


Already answered: I would imagine they are expecting an influx of pilgrims when the Warning happens, no doubt. I don't suppose a bishop would approve $350,000 euros worth of renovations and adding lights to the parking lot if he didn't think something might be happening soon.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 11:56:01 AM
There was also a fifth seer, who saw the Blessed Virgin Mary in her apparitions to the girls.

It was a 38 year-old priest, Fr. Luis Andreu. He cried out, "Miracle! Miracle! Miracle!" when he saw her, and the Holy Virgin told the girls that Fr. Andreu was seeing her too.

He died only a few hours later, at 3 AM, on his way back down the mountain.

Quote
...Fr. Andreu, on the drive home in the early hours of the next morning, very quietly and peacefully, passed from this life to the next. The mysterious death of the young priest could be attributed to nothing other than sheer joy. Shortly before expiring he exclaimed, “This is the happiest day of my life!” And then speaking for all of us, Fr. Luis added, “How fortunate we are to have a Mother like that in heaven!”



Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 01:13:49 PM
It is interesting that the notion of an evil synod as a pre-Warning sign was posted a few months prior to the evil Synod on the Family happening.

https://whatisgarabandal.wordpress.com/2014/09/04/a-synod-before-the-warning-update/

Quote
...if an Important Synod has been indicated to the main Seer of Garabandal as a Pre-Warning sign, I will not be surprised that this Important Synod could be linked also to the Holy Eucharist but since the Apparitions, we had already many Synods, so this Synod could be particularly and very important, different from other, otherwise our Lady would not have spoken about it, a Synod which could create a Schism ? as a Schism is also indicated as another Pre-Warning sign and this could explain why our Lady talked about ? that’s the question.


Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 02:51:54 PM
Four pages in, and NO ONE has commented on the fact that the evil Synod indicates the Warning may be at our door. Possibly only 4 1/2 months away, or less.

Instead, all anyone wants to do is argue about why they don't believe Our Lady's appearance and Her message.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 02:54:13 PM
This article has more information on the nature of the Punishment which will follow the Miracle.
It dovetails closely with all the other apparitions that mention the Great Chastisement/Three Days of Darkness.

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 02:55:20 PM
here:
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Pax Vobis on December 27, 2016, 05:10:45 PM
You said a lot of criticisms are untrue but you weren't specific.  Answer me this:  did the children run backwards during some apparition?  If so, how's this not demonic?  If it's not demonic, how is it catholic?  Did Our Lady tell them to run backwards?  Was it ever explained?

For this reason alone, I question these messages.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: Pax Vobis
You said a lot of criticisms are untrue but you weren't specific.  Answer me this:  did the children run backwards during some apparition?  If so, how's this not demonic?  If it's not demonic, how is it catholic?  Did Our Lady tell them to run backwards?  Was it ever explained?

For this reason alone, I question these messages.


I think that is really sad.

The bishop who witnessed the girls' ecstasies doesn't seem to be bothered by what they did during their ecstasy, and says what bothers him is Our Lady's message that bishops and cardinals are on the road to hell, but you get hung up on what the girls did during their ecstasies.

I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you've seen too many horror movies.

You can read here the notes of the priest who watched over 200 ecstasies of the girls at Garabandal.

http://www.ourlady.ca/info/de%20la%20Riva/delaRiva19.htm

And you can listen to Maria Saraco describe the ones she witnessed.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/0gRzuZPfOhc[/youtube]

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Pax Vobis on December 27, 2016, 11:08:14 PM
I asked an honest question and you insult me, like you have others on this thread.  It shows you're too attached and emotional about this whole thing.  Your mind is already made up and this is NOT how we're supposed to treat such things.  

...200 apparitions...really...name me one approved apparition in church history where anyone from heaven appeared to anyone that many times.  How about even more than 20 times?  

The whole thing stinks of hell.  There's truth mixed in, sure, which is why it sounds good.  But there's just too many things that are "off".
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 11:14:01 PM
Quote from: Pax Vobis
I asked an honest question and you insult me, like you have others on this thread.  It shows you're too attached and emotional about this whole thing.  Your mind is already made up and this is NOT how we're supposed to treat such things.  

...200 apparitions...really...name me one approved apparition in church history where anyone from heaven appeared to anyone that many times.  How about even more than 20 times?  

The whole thing stinks of hell.  There's truth mixed in, sure, which is why it sounds good.  But there's just too many things that are "off".


The fact that you and the others on this thread who have bothered to respond think it is fashionable to respond in a derogatory manner to a very serious apparition of Our Lady is extremely disturbing. Sorry you feel insulted, but you really ought to be more concerned with the fact that you are insulting our Mother when you say this whole thing stinks of hell. How outrageous.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Nadir on December 27, 2016, 11:19:12 PM
Quote from: Pax Vobis
You said a lot of criticisms are untrue but you weren't specific.  Answer me this:  did the children run backwards during some apparition?  If so, how's this not demonic?  If it's not demonic, how is it catholic?  Did Our Lady tell them to run backwards?  Was it ever explained?

For this reason alone, I question these messages.


mw, why don't you simply answer Pax Vobis' questions? You might win over a follower to your predictions.

Belief in alleged apparitions does not belong to the Deposit of Faith that we, as Catholics, are required to adhere to. So you have no reason or excuse to lambaste or lament those who don't get excited over your findings/predictions related to Garabandal.

For those interested, here is an excerpt from https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/apparitions.htm

Quote
With respect to any disciplinary precepts the bishop makes concerning the apparition and its site, they should be followed faithfully (e.g. what sacraments, if any, may be celebrated there). No Catholic should ever violate the practical norms laid down by the local bishop with respect to an alleged apparition, even if intellectually they disagree with his conclusion regarding the alleged apparition. Such disobedience would be sinful, and if it characterized the attitude of the followers of the alleged apparition it would be a sign of its inauthenticity, i.e. by producing bad fruit.

Types of Decisions.  

The decision of the local bishop should be one of the following: 1) constat de supernaturalitate (established as supernatural),  2) constat de non supernaturalitate (established as not supernatural); or 3) non constat de supernaturalitate (not established as supernatural).

1. Constat de supernaturalitate. An apparition judged supernatural (formerly called worthy of belief) has manifested signs or evidence of being an authentic or truly miraculous intervention from heaven. This judgment is possible when there is evidence of supernatural phenomena, sound doctrine, moral probity, mental health and sound piety of the seer(s) and enduring good fruits among the faithful.

The issue of supernaturality is one that deserves to be explored more fully. According to the common teaching of the Church, most extraordinary phenomena in the mystical order (visions, apparitions, locutions, ecstasies, mystical knowledge etc.) are caused by angels acting on God's behalf. Whether the burning bush which Moses saw, the ecstatic flights of St. Joseph Cupertino, the stigmata of St. Francis or the revelations of St. Catherine, the general rule in the spiritual order is that God does not do immediately and directly what can be done mediately through a lower order nature, in this case the good angels. The presence of such phenomenon is not, therefore, unequivocal evidence of supernaturality.  Each of the approved apparitions have had such clear signs, from the instantaneous and inexplicable cures at Lourdes to the natural prodigy of October 13th 1917 in Fátima, but also the other marks of authenticity mentioned above.

2. Constat de non supernaturalitate. The judgment that an alleged apparition has been shown to be not supernatural means it is either clearly not miraculous or lacks sufficient signs of the miraculous. Private revelation, for example, which is doctrinally dangerous or which manifests hostility to lawful authority could not come from God. It could even be demonic, especially if there are extraordinary signs accompanying it. The devil gladly mingles truth and lie to deceive the faithful, dazzling them with signs and wonders to give credence to his message. His purpose is to separate them from the Church, either by getting them to believe things contrary to the deposit of the faith or to  act contemptuously of Church authority. An attitude of pride and judgment toward the Church is a clear sign of his presence. An alleged revelation may also only be a pious rambling, consistent with faith and morals, but lacking evidence of being anything more than the product of human effort. No fraud need be intended, only an active imagination. Finally, it may be that the doctrine may be sound and there may be phenomena, but insufficient to demonstrate supernaturality. In this latter case, there would seem to be a possibility of revision.

3. Non constat de supernaturalitate. Finally, it may not be evident whether or not the alleged apparition is authentic. This judgment would seem to be completely open to further evidence or development.

Responsibility of the Faithful. Today there are a myriad of alleged private revelations and apparitions vying for the attention of the faithful. None have been definitively judged by the Holy See, some have been approved by local authority (e.g. Akita, Cuapa, Betania), others have been found lacking in supernaturality (e.g. Medjugorje, Garabandal), some few have been condemned (e.g. Necedah, Bayside) and finally, the vast majority have received no attention from Church authorities whatsoever.

The first responsibility of the faithful is to remain firmly established in the faith, in the sacraments and in communion with the Pope and bishops. Any Catholic who gives their primary attention to alleged private revelation at the expense of Sacred Scripture, the teaching of the Church (especially the Catechism), sacramental practice, prayer and fidelity to Church authority is off course. The running after spiritual phenomena, such as alleged revelations, is condemned by St. John of the Cross as spiritual avarice. This means that pious souls who would be repulsed by crude materialistic greed think nothing of being greedy to know revelations and prophecies. An exclusive, or even a predominant attention to these matters (especially apocalyptic ones), cannot help but produce an unbalanced spirituality. Should the Church condemn some favorite alleged revelation such a person may find themselves believing more in it than in the supernatural authority of the Church. The devil will have succeeded in what he had set out to do.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 11:28:29 PM
Quote from: Nadir
Quote from: Pax Vobis
You said a lot of criticisms are untrue but you weren't specific.  Answer me this:  did the children run backwards during some apparition?  If so, how's this not demonic?  If it's not demonic, how is it catholic?  Did Our Lady tell them to run backwards?  Was it ever explained?

For this reason alone, I question these messages.


mw, why don't you simply answer Pax Vobis' questions? You might win over a follower to your predictions.



The children are described to have often walked with their heads focused only upward on the Virgin, never looking where they walked, and that they walked so quickly over the very rocky ground that the witnesses could not keep up. How exactly is that demonic? They also frequently fell to their knees on the rocks and were always uninjured. They also rarely levitated, as the priest noted, but I am sure you will all say that is demonic too, right?
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 11:31:17 PM
Quote from: Pax Vobis


...200 apparitions...really...name me one approved apparition in church history where anyone from heaven appeared to anyone that many times.  How about even more than 20 times?  



Our Lady appeared to the children over a 4-year period. So, you think there is a requirement as to how many times Our Lady is allowed to appear? I'm sure she can do it however many times Our Lord wanted her to appear.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 27, 2016, 11:37:43 PM
This is a docuмentary film made very close to the events themselves in the year 1971.

There are many photos of the girls in ecstasy. You can see the beauty in their expressions, there is utterly NOTHING demonic about it.

There is also film footage of an ecstasy where the girls are being taught how to properly make the Sign of the Cross by Our Lady. Nothing demonic about THAT!

Start at about the 14:00 min. mark:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/Jahp1-PMOeo[/youtube]

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 12:09:46 AM
Quote
His Excellency Bishop Eugenio Beitia of Santander through the official nota of July 8, 1965 declared:

“We point out, however, that we have not found anything deserving of ecclesiastical censorship or condemnation either in the doctrine or in the spiritual recommendations that have been publicized as having been addressed to the faithful, for these contain an exhortation to prayer and sacrifice, to Eucharistic devotion, to veneration of Our Lady in traditional praiseworthy ways, and to holy fear of God offended by our sins. They simply repeat the common doctrine of the Church in these matters.”?



Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 12:33:45 AM
Bishop Williamson approves of the Garabandal apparitions.

http://williamsonletters.blogspot.com/2009/02/private-revelation-and-message-of.html

Quote
Let me here merely make a case for the internal reasonableness of Garabandal's double message and triple prophecy, because it is my personal opinion that it is highly unlikely that Garabandal is false, and if it is true, I would like to avoid having people ask at some point in the future – “Did you know about this and not tell us?" With each day that passes more and more people are in agony over the question, "How will it all end?" With each day that passes the answer of Garabandal makes more and more tranquillizing sense. I believe Garabandal is true, but I am not here arguing it is true, still less imposing it on any readers, I am merely proposing that it makes sense of what might seem an otherwise senseless situation of world and Church.

Whether authentic or not, the two solemn Messages of Garabandal of October 1961 and June 1965 picked up where the Third Secret of Fatima, locked away in 1960, surely left off, namely with the crisis in the Church. In 1961, notice one year before the opening of Vatican Two, the lady of Garabandal said, "We must do much penance and make many sacrifices. We must often visit the Blessed Sacrament. But above all, we must be very good for, if we are not, we will be punished. The cup is already filling, and if we do not amend our lives there will come a great chastisement."

In her second longer Message, given a few months before the closing of Vatican Two, she was more insistent, saying amongst other things, “…Previously, the cup was being filled. Now it is overflowing. Many cardinals, Bishops and priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them…” So much for Vatican Two! Small wonder if the cardinals, bishops and priests were not in a hurry to approve of the lady of Garabandal!


Her triple prophecy made in the course of the same four years was of three great coming events: a Warning, a Miracle and, if mankind is not converted by these, a Chastisement to which the first two events point. Let us then begin with the Chastisement, spoken of in both Messages.

What it will consist in, the girls were not allowed to say, but they were shown it: on two successive nights they had of it a vision so horrifying that they let out such cries of horror that all the villagers within earshot went at the first opportunity to Confession. Said one of the girls, "It will be a result of the direct intervention of God, which makes it more terrible and fearful than anything we can imagine".

We look at the sins of the turn of the century, chastised by World War One. We look at the greater sins of the 1920's and 1930's, proportionately chastised by World War Two. We look at the far greater sins of the 1960's to 1990's — is it not reasonable that a merely human World War Three would not be enough by way of chastisement for mankind in its present state? Of course mankind can convert, but does that look likely? God exists, He cares, He is not powerless to intervene, He is just, so how could He not chastise? But he is also merciful, which is why it is reasonable — not obligatory on His part — that He provide beforehand a proportionately great Warning.

For indeed people today are so confused, all over the world, that like the inhabitants of Niniveh in Scripture, they cannot tell their left hand from their right (Jonah IV,11). Now for this stupidity men have nobody to blame but themselves, but how far can for instance the youngsters today be blamed when they are fed synchronized lies by their schools, politicians, universities, media, even churches and parents, in brief by everyone meant to know what life is about? Stop for a moment and think how deep the confusion is in people's minds and lives around us. Could not many of them almost go before God's judgement seat and plead ignorance? And where today is His true Church to guarantee them His existence, His love and His law? In which case does not the Warning as told of by the lady of Garabandal to the four girls fit, like a key fits a lock? —

"The Warning will come directly from God, like a fire from heaven visible to the whole world and from any place where anyone may happen to be. Immediately it will be transmitted into the interior of our souls where by its light everyone, believer and unbeliever alike, irrespective of whatever religion he may belong to, will see the state of his soul with complete clearness. He will experience what it is to lose God; he will feel the purifying action of the cleansing flame. Briefly it will be like having the Particular Judgement in one's very soul while still alive. It will last for a very little time, but it will seem a very long time because of its effect within us."

Does not such a warning fit? For a few (long) moments absolutely everybody without exception will see the complete truth about their soul and its state before God. Within a few hours, days, months, the enemies of God will no doubt be doing everything with their media to bend people's minds all out of shape once more, but everyone will have had a clear chance to know the truth and to choose it. What a grace! However, the lady of Garabandal told of God's mercy reaching still further.

At Fatima, the Second Secret had consisted of a great warning of what Russia would do (by 1992, has largely done) to the world, if the instructions of Our Lady were not carried out, and this warning, originally given in July of 1917, was solemnly ratified and confirmed by the miraculous dance of the sun which took place three months later before an awe-struck crowd of 70,000 people.

However, the sins and incredulity of this end of the 20th century far surpass those of its beginning. If then a miracle is provided to overcome disbelief in a warning, might one not expect from Garabandal, if it is true, a Miracle far surpassing even the dance of the sun at Fatima? That is exactly what the girls were told of by the Lady of Garabandal: —

"Within one year of the Great Warning, on a Thursday evening at 8:30 p.m., on a feast of a Saint devoted to the Holy Eucharist, lasting for about a quarter of an hour and coinciding with a great event in the Church, will take place a Great Miracle visible to everyone in the village of Garabandal and in the surrounding mountain arena. It will be the greatest miracle that Jesus has ever worked for the world. There will not remain the slightest doubt that it canes from God and is for the good of mankind. It will take place at the site of the clump of pine trees overlooking the village, where it will leave a permanent sign that will remain until the end of time. This sign it will be possible to film or televise, but not to touch. All unbelievers present at the Miracle will be converted, and all invalids will be cured."

Now if one visits Fatima today, one finds of course no trace of the miraculous dance of the sun which did so much to help people believe in Fatima. The miracle came and went. But given the vastly greater disbelief of our own day, is it not, once more, entirely reasonable that, if Garabandal be true, greater help should be given to overcome disbelief in it? Modern men believe in their television? They will go nowhere without their video-camera? What could be more reasonable than to provide televisual man with a permanent televisible sign? “I will not believe until I can photograph it with my own video-camera!" — catch an aeroplane and go ahead!

There are various objections to the authenticity of the apparitions of Our Lady at Garabandal which I will not go into now, although I am sure they can all be answered without great difficulty. The official Church has made no final pronunciation upon Garabandal, as it has made upon Fatima to approve or upon Medjugorje to disapprove. The Society of St. Pius X has no official position either. For myself, I believe in it. All I have tried to do above is to make the case that if anyone has difficulty in fitting together in his head the insane facts of the modern world and the sane truth of his Catholic Faith, the lady of Garabandal provides an admirable solution. And if one day she were proved beyond doubt not to have been Our Lady, our Faith in public Revelation would not be shaken one bit, we should merely have to renounce one set of stepping-stones towards it. Meanwhile may Our Lady accept as homage offered to her this presentation of the triple prophecy of Garabandal. Our only intention has been to serve her and help her save souls. For more information, write to P.O. Box 606, Lindenhurst, NY 11757, U.S.A.

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 12:37:22 AM
St. Padre Pio became good friends with seer Conchita and upon his death left to her the veil that covered his face at his wake, his personal Rosary, and one of his blood-stained gloves.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 10:48:51 AM
Quote from: mw2016
This is a docuмentary film made very close to the events themselves in the year 1971.


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/Jahp1-PMOeo[/youtube]



In my opinion, if anyone, after viewing all the film footage of the girls in ecstasy, still thinks it looks demonic then there is something very off with their perception.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Matto on December 28, 2016, 11:41:47 AM
So the miracle is supposed to happen in April and the warning before then? I do not believe it will happen. But we will see very soon.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: Matto
So the miracle is supposed to happen in April and the warning before then? I do not believe it will happen. But we will see very soon.


Yes, the Warning will happen any time within the 12 months PRIOR to the Miracle.

Over the years, there have been potential dates calculated as possibilities for the Miracle, based on what Conchita was allowed to say.

The next one being April 13th, therefore the Warning could be in the next few months.

The presence of the evil synod makes this date of particular interest.


The other previous dates were before the synod had taken place.

The next potential date isn't until April 11th 2019.

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 11:54:19 AM
This is a list of calculated potential dates for the Miracle, so the Warning would come within a year prior to them:

Quote


Thursday, March 10, 2011
Thursday, May 12, 2011
Thursday, April 11, 2013
Thursday, March 10, 2016
Thursday, May 12, 2016
Thursday, April 13, 2017*
Thursday, April 11, 2019
Thursday, March 10, 2022
Thursday, May 12, 2022

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 11:59:11 AM
What is important also about this message of an evil synod is that it fulfills something spoken of by Our Lady at Akita in 1973:

Quote
"The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops."


The Four Cardinals' dubia is an example of this, as they are taking a lot of abuse from their fellow cardinals for this.

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Matto on December 28, 2016, 12:09:01 PM
What do you think about Bayside? That happened in my diocese.
http://www.tldm.org/Bayside/messages/bm940618.htm (http://www.tldm.org/Bayside/messages/bm940618.htm)
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: Matto
What do you think about Bayside? That happened in my diocese.
http://www.tldm.org/Bayside/messages/bm940618.htm (http://www.tldm.org/Bayside/messages/bm940618.htm)


I'm sorry, I have less than zero knowledge of Bayside. Was that one officially condemned? Maybe you can nutshell the whole thing for me?
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Matto on December 28, 2016, 01:22:44 PM
Yes Bayside was condemned by the Novus Ordo Bishop (but the messages of Bayside condemned the Novus Ordo). I am not an expert on the messages myself. I know even less about them than I do about Garabandal. But I just wondered if you believed in them also.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Matto
What do you think about Bayside? That happened in my diocese.
http://www.tldm.org/Bayside/messages/bm940618.htm (http://www.tldm.org/Bayside/messages/bm940618.htm)


I looked at that link. All it seems to reference is an event of punishment from above that resembles a star exploding. Which I guess would be similar to the Warning or the Great Chastisement, though it doesn't differentiate.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Neo on December 28, 2016, 02:44:50 PM
I'd say a global internet blackout for 3 days.

People will be able to see themselves as they really are.

Maybe think about where they come from and ponder about where they're going.

That is of course until it's turned back on.

Will that happen during Trump's presidency?

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 03:11:34 PM
Here is Fr. Gruner talking about Garabandal.

He mentions that he himself was present on June 18, 1965 when the final message was given from St. Michael the Archangel.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/y2T55nsW5PU[/youtube]

He says the bishop there told him there is nothing contradictory to the faith or morals in the message, but that he himself does not promote it directly because it is not formally approved by the Church.

Notice this interview ocurred in March 2014 before the Synod in October of that year.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 04:29:16 PM
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/exclusive-cardinal-burke-suggests-timeline-for-formal-correction-of-pope-fr

Quote
Cardinal Burke, along with Cardinals Walter Brandmüller, Carlo Caffarra, and Joachim Meisner, submitted the dubia, five yes or no questions, in September seeking clarity from Pope Francis on whether the exhortation conforms to Catholic moral teaching. When the Pope did not issue a response after two months, the cardinals released the dubia publicly. It was after this that Cardinal Burke disclosed that a formal act of correction would be necessary, if the Pope refused to clarify the meaning of his exhortation.

While such an act of formal correction is something rare in the life of the Church, it is not without precedent.


So, they are planning to go to the next step to rebuke Pope Francis after the Epiphany.

 I believe Conchita said the Miracle would also coincide with a rare event in the Church. I'm not sure how long the formal correction process takes, but if they are starting it in January, perhaps it could take place in April?
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 04:31:39 PM
Quote
Pope John XXII in the 14th century was publicly challenged by cardinals, bishops, and lay theologians after denying the doctrine that the souls of the just are admitted to the beatific vision after death, teaching instead that heaven is delayed until the general resurrection at the end of time. Pope John eventually recanted his position, due in part to a joint letter from theologians from the University of Paris that professed total obedience to the pope while making it clear to him that his teaching contradicted the Catholic faith.

Burke called the procedure of correcting the error of a pontiff a “way of safeguarding that office and its exercise.”

“It’s carried out with the absolute respect for the office of the Successor of Saint Peter,” he said.


This seems important.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 04:46:36 PM
Quote
Der Spiegel’s Walter Mayr reports on a rumoured saying of Pope Francis to a “very small circle” in which he said, “It is not to be excluded that I will enter history as the one who split the Catholic Church.”



Perhaps the schism is the impetus for the Warning to take place when it does?

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/dubia-cardinal-anyone-who-opens-communion-to-adulterers-is-a-heretic-and-pr
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 05:33:40 PM
Quote
Another prophecy to come from OUR LADY OF GARABANDAL regarding the GREAT MIRACLE was that the HOLY FATHER would see it from wherever he was, and that PADRE PIO would see it too. So when the famous STIGMAST died on September 23, 1968, Conchita was perplexed as to why the prophecy had not come true.

A month later, Conchita was given a letter by Padre Bernardino Cennamo, the Superior of the Capuchin Order, in which he said that PADRE PIO told him that he had seen THE GREAT MIRACLE. He also sent her the white veil that covered his face while he lay in state in the morning of his death.

Conchita recounts: “I had the veil in front of me, as I was writing later that evening. When suddenly the whole room became filled with fragrance, the perfume so strong I started to cry.” It is not without significance that PADRE PIO should be IRREVOCABLY LINKED to the apparitions in GARABANDAL.


http://www.garabandal2017.com/padre-pio-and-garabandal.html
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Matto on December 28, 2016, 06:29:04 PM
If the warning happens soon it would be very helpful. If everyone will see the state of their soul I would know if I was in the state of grace or not, and if I was not, I would know which unconfessed sins were still on my soul. That would be very helpful as far as salvation goes. And it would be probably the second most amazing thing that has happened to me in my life. So hopefully you are right about this and I am wrong in not believing in it.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 28, 2016, 08:40:36 PM
Quote from: Matto
If the warning happens soon it would be very helpful.


It would be helpful on an individual level no doubt, but it seems it would really help the Church to correct the consciences of all the wayward cardinals and bishops - maybe even the Pope himself.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Incredulous on December 30, 2016, 11:08:15 PM


MW2016... Nice job at defending your position.

You picked-up on some interesting coincidences related to the Garabandal messages and we should be able to discuss them in an open and intelligent manner.

+W makes a good point that since Pope John XXIII "shelved" the 3rd Secret of Fatima, Our Blessed Mother was not going to remain silent.

The inconsistencies of the Garabandal messages (such as Joey's death) should be looked into with more scrutiny.



Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Cera on December 31, 2016, 04:20:50 PM
Quote from: mw2016
Quote
Another prophecy to come from OUR LADY OF GARABANDAL regarding the GREAT MIRACLE was that the HOLY FATHER would see it from wherever he was, and that PADRE PIO would see it too. So when the famous STIGMAST died on September 23, 1968, Conchita was perplexed as to why the prophecy had not come true.

A month later, Conchita was given a letter by Padre Bernardino Cennamo, the Superior of the Capuchin Order, in which he said that PADRE PIO told him that he had seen THE GREAT MIRACLE. He also sent her the white veil that covered his face while he lay in state in the morning of his death.

Conchita recounts: “I had the veil in front of me, as I was writing later that evening. When suddenly the whole room became filled with fragrance, the perfume so strong I started to cry.” It is not without significance that PADRE PIO should be IRREVOCABLY LINKED to the apparitions in GARABANDAL.


http://www.garabandal2017.com/padre-pio-and-garabandal.html


I went to this link and they say the miracle of the sun was on April 13, 1917. No. It was October 13, 2017. If they can't get that right, I wouldn't trust the website.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 31, 2016, 06:14:42 PM
Quote from: Cera
Quote from: mw2016
Quote
Another prophecy to come from OUR LADY OF GARABANDAL regarding the GREAT MIRACLE was that the HOLY FATHER would see it from wherever he was, and that PADRE PIO would see it too. So when the famous STIGMAST died on September 23, 1968, Conchita was perplexed as to why the prophecy had not come true.

A month later, Conchita was given a letter by Padre Bernardino Cennamo, the Superior of the Capuchin Order, in which he said that PADRE PIO told him that he had seen THE GREAT MIRACLE. He also sent her the white veil that covered his face while he lay in state in the morning of his death.

Conchita recounts: “I had the veil in front of me, as I was writing later that evening. When suddenly the whole room became filled with fragrance, the perfume so strong I started to cry.” It is not without significance that PADRE PIO should be IRREVOCABLY LINKED to the apparitions in GARABANDAL.


http://www.garabandal2017.com/padre-pio-and-garabandal.html


I went to this link and they say the miracle of the sun was on April 13, 1917. No. It was October 13, 2017. If they can't get that right, I wouldn't trust the website.


I'm sorry, but you are mistaken.

I just clicked the link and this is a direct cut & paste. They have it listed correctly:

Quote
In THE LADY OF FATIMA, Lucia, Francisco, and Jacinta were given three (3) secrets involving, HELL, the 2nd World War, and the third secret that was never made known.   They along with 70,000 others, witnessed the MIRACLE OF THE SUN, when the SUN danced in the sky, which today is the greatest MIRACLE ever seen by anyone.   The LADY told the (3) seers, in advance, that she would perform this MIRACLE so that all would BELIEVE in the events of FATIMA , which occurred, on the 13th of October, 1917.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on December 31, 2016, 06:55:41 PM
Quote from: Incredulous


MW2016... Nice job at defending your position.

You picked-up on some interesting coincidences related to the Garabandal messages and we should be able to discuss them in an open and intelligent manner.

+W makes a good point that since Pope John XXIII "shelved" the 3rd Secret of Fatima, Our Blessed Mother was not going to remain silent.

The inconsistencies of the Garabandal messages (such as Joey's death) should be looked into with more scrutiny.





Thank you very much, for your kind response.

I think the Garabandal apparition absolutely happened because the Fatima request was not fulfilled. And I believe Akita for the same reason. I think it is amazing how all three of these apparitions (Fatima, Garabandal, Akita) tie in with Fr. Arnette's locution of 1994, and the present events happening since the Synod of 2014 and war of the cardinals to begin this year with the Pope.

I would like to know more about Fr. Arnette - if he is still alive, has he been interviewed in recent years, etc.

I have been thinking a lot about 2 Thess. 2:10-11 in recent years:

"And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity. "

I think there is a lot of importance on the WORDS that Our Lord chose to use in the Bible since He is the Word, and the Word is Truth.

And it has always been curious to me that he used the word "operation" in 2 Thessalonians. Why that word? Why "operation?" What does "operation" mean?

operation - noun.

the exertion of force, power, or influence; agency:

a campaign, mission, maneuver, or action.

It is my belief that one of the things the Bible may refer to in this passage about an "operation" of error (and I do believe there is more than one error) is the gαy/LGBT agenda.

The world has seen a very swift and massive acceleration of this error since 2010, which began with the military's approval of gαys, then in the Supreme Court approval of gαy marriage, and now the incessant drumbeat for the transgender perversion.

I believe this is a government-sanctioned and media-sponsored operation that is a coordinated effort with many "operatives" who are working solely toward this agenda.

And there are many, many people now (as the polls show) who have given their "consent to iniquity" because they now approve of the gαy/trans agenda.

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Cera on January 01, 2017, 05:37:41 PM
Quote from: mw2016
Quote from: Cera
Quote from: mw2016
Quote
Another prophecy to come from OUR LADY OF GARABANDAL regarding the GREAT MIRACLE was that the HOLY FATHER would see it from wherever he was, and that PADRE PIO would see it too. So when the famous STIGMAST died on September 23, 1968, Conchita was perplexed as to why the prophecy had not come true.

A month later, Conchita was given a letter by Padre Bernardino Cennamo, the Superior of the Capuchin Order, in which he said that PADRE PIO told him that he had seen THE GREAT MIRACLE. He also sent her the white veil that covered his face while he lay in state in the morning of his death.

Conchita recounts: “I had the veil in front of me, as I was writing later that evening. When suddenly the whole room became filled with fragrance, the perfume so strong I started to cry.” It is not without significance that PADRE PIO should be IRREVOCABLY LINKED to the apparitions in GARABANDAL.


http://www.garabandal2017.com/padre-pio-and-garabandal.html


I went to this link and they say the miracle of the sun was on April 13, 1917. No. It was October 13, 2017. If they can't get that right, I wouldn't trust the website.


I'm sorry, but you are mistaken.

I just clicked the link and this is a direct cut & paste. They have it listed correctly:

Quote
In THE LADY OF FATIMA, Lucia, Francisco, and Jacinta were given three (3) secrets involving, HELL, the 2nd World War, and the third secret that was never made known.   They along with 70,000 others, witnessed the MIRACLE OF THE SUN, when the SUN danced in the sky, which today is the greatest MIRACLE ever seen by anyone.   The LADY told the (3) seers, in advance, that she would perform this MIRACLE so that all would BELIEVE in the events of FATIMA , which occurred, on the 13th of October, 1917.


Glad to hear that it has been fixed.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Cera on January 01, 2017, 05:42:02 PM
I once had a problem accepting Garabandal because Joey passed away without anyone being aware whether or not his blindness had been cured. From further reading, I've learned the explanation is that his blindness was healed shortly before he passed away. This makes sense, especially since Padre Pio reportedly saw the miracle prior to his death.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Cera on January 01, 2017, 05:51:20 PM
Quote from: mw2016
Quote from: Cera
Quote from: mw2016
Quote
Another prophecy to come from OUR LADY OF GARABANDAL regarding the GREAT MIRACLE was that the HOLY FATHER would see it from wherever he was, and that PADRE PIO would see it too. So when the famous STIGMAST died on September 23, 1968, Conchita was perplexed as to why the prophecy had not come true.

A month later, Conchita was given a letter by Padre Bernardino Cennamo, the Superior of the Capuchin Order, in which he said that PADRE PIO told him that he had seen THE GREAT MIRACLE. He also sent her the white veil that covered his face while he lay in state in the morning of his death.

Conchita recounts: “I had the veil in front of me, as I was writing later that evening. When suddenly the whole room became filled with fragrance, the perfume so strong I started to cry.” It is not without significance that PADRE PIO should be IRREVOCABLY LINKED to the apparitions in GARABANDAL.


http://www.garabandal2017.com/padre-pio-and-garabandal.html


I went to this link and they say the miracle of the sun was on April 13, 1917. No. It was October 13, 2017. If they can't get that right, I wouldn't trust the website.


I'm sorry, but you are mistaken.

I just clicked the link and this is a direct cut & paste. They have it listed correctly:

Quote
In THE LADY OF FATIMA, Lucia, Francisco, and Jacinta were given three (3) secrets involving, HELL, the 2nd World War, and the third secret that was never made known.   They along with 70,000 others, witnessed the MIRACLE OF THE SUN, when the SUN danced in the sky, which today is the greatest MIRACLE ever seen by anyone.   The LADY told the (3) seers, in advance, that she would perform this MIRACLE so that all would BELIEVE in the events of FATIMA , which occurred, on the 13th of October, 1917.


That's really ODD.
Here is what I found cached. this is cut and paste from the original link:
http://www.garabandal2017.com/prediction-date-and-form-of-miracle.html

 Garabandal Prediction Date and Form of The Great Miracle
lady fatima smNow for the prediction

The GREAT MIRACLE will take place at 8:30 on HOLY THURSDAY on the 13th day of April 2017, exactly 100 years from 1917, when the SUN DANCED AT FATIMA.

Did you actually go back and change the original link in your post?

.

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on January 01, 2017, 06:01:54 PM
Quote from: Cera

The GREAT MIRACLE will take place at 8:30 on HOLY THURSDAY on the 13th day of April 2017, exactly 100 years from 1917, when the SUN DANCED AT FATIMA.

Did you actually go back and change the original link in your post?





No, I did not change anything.

If you will notice, your link is different from mine.

It appears you were reading from another page on that website, not the page I posted about Padre Pio. Who knows, maybe they made a typo on the page you were looking at?
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on January 01, 2017, 06:04:12 PM
Did you know the final message of Fatima was given on June 18, 1921 at 8:30 pm...

...and the first message at Garabandal was given on June 18, 1961 at 8:30 pm?

Exactly FORTY YEARS to the day and time between the two apparitions.

And Our Lady appeared both times dressed as Our Lady of Mt. Carmel with the brown scapular.

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: BTHCOF on January 19, 2017, 08:15:11 PM
The boy [Simon] who was tortured to death at Trent was officially canonized by Pope Sixtus V. The Holy Infant Martyr, St. Simon of Trent's feast day is always celebrated on March 24th.

The small Simon, a little boy from Trent, was slayed on the 21st March, 1475 A.D., on Maundy-Thursday during Holy Week.

http://www.stsimonoftrent.com/
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: BTHCOF on January 19, 2017, 08:16:29 PM
The boy [Simon] who was tortured to death at Trent was officially canonized by Pope Sixtus V. The Holy Infant Martyr, St. Simon of Trent's feast day is always celebrated on March 24th.

The small Simon, a little boy from Trent, was slayed on the 21st March, 1475 A.D., on Maundy-Thursday during Holy Week.

http://www.stsimonoftrent.com/
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Matto on January 19, 2017, 08:25:36 PM
Quote from: BTHCOF
The boy [Simon] who was tortured to death at Trent was officially canonized by Pope Sixtus V. The Holy Infant Martyr, St. Simon of Trent's feast day is always celebrated on March 24th.

The small Simon, a little boy from Trent, was slayed on the 21st March, 1475 A.D., on Maundy-Thursday during Holy Week.

http://www.stsimonoftrent.com/

What made you post about Saint Simon in this thread? I was thinking about this gruesome topic because I recently had a dream where I was about to become the victim of Jєωιѕн ritual murder like Saint Simon. It was a short dream that I mentioned in this post (http://mattodreams.blogspot.com/2017/01/green-versus-black.html) in my dream blog.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: BTHCOF on January 19, 2017, 08:35:52 PM
Quote from: Matto
Quote from: BTHCOF
The boy [Simon] who was tortured to death at Trent was officially canonized by Pope Sixtus V. The Holy Infant Martyr, St. Simon of Trent's feast day is always celebrated on March 24th.

The small Simon, a little boy from Trent, was slayed on the 21st March, 1475 A.D., on Maundy-Thursday during Holy Week.

http://www.stsimonoftrent.com/

What made you post about Saint Simon in this thread? I was thinking about this gruesome topic because I recently had a dream where I was about to become the victim of Jєωιѕн ritual murder like Saint Simon. It was a short dream that I mentioned in this post (http://mattodreams.blogspot.com/2017/01/green-versus-black.html) in my dream blog.


Bcos I was reading it and thought if its not the other one it could be this one and in anycase they are pretty close to each other. It also is about Passover and over time wwe may have Gained a few days due to Leap Yrs so the Circuмcission of a few days would bring it back by so many. I have not calculated How Many days shorter the 100 years might actually be though.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: mw2016 on January 23, 2017, 11:01:15 PM
Quote from: Matto
Quote from: BTHCOF
The boy [Simon] who was tortured to death at Trent was officially canonized by Pope Sixtus V. The Holy Infant Martyr, St. Simon of Trent's feast day is always celebrated on March 24th.

The small Simon, a little boy from Trent, was slayed on the 21st March, 1475 A.D., on Maundy-Thursday during Holy Week.

http://www.stsimonoftrent.com/

What made you post about Saint Simon in this thread? I was thinking about this gruesome topic because I recently had a dream where I was about to become the victim of Jєωιѕн ritual murder like Saint Simon. It was a short dream that I mentioned in this post (http://mattodreams.blogspot.com/2017/01/green-versus-black.html) in my dream blog.


I was recently reading about this also!

Did you know these murders are the reason the Jєωs were expelled from many countries?

And do you know what they used the blood for? It is really sick.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Arvinger on January 29, 2017, 09:27:04 AM
I highly doubt whether there will be any Warning and whether Garabandal apparitions are from God. There are numerous reasons for that.

1. To my knowledge no other private revelation mentions anything like a Warning and Miracle - while other prophecies, like Three Days of Darkess, Chastisement, restoration of the Church etc. are repeated in numerous private revelations, the supposed Warning and Miracle are found, as far as I know, only in Garabandal.

2. If the Warning and Miracle will happen in a manner described in Garabandal apparitions, surely even the most die hard atheists will convert faced with a direct revelation from God. So, if the world converts, how can there be a chastisement afterwards? The world will be converted and doing penance. But we know from numerous private revelations that the Chastisement will indeed occur.

3. Such a message is likely to introduce spiritual laxity. It basically means that since the Warning has not occured yet, the Chastisement cannot occur either (yet) and we are temporarily safe.

4. All suspicious circuмstances around the messages (Joey Lomangino did not regain his eyesight as promised, children walking backwards etc.).
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Ekim on February 10, 2017, 03:56:46 AM
First message at Bayside was given on June 18th as well.

Just one question with all these alleged apparitions...why all the riddles?  Why wouldn't a loving mother just say "You got five years to knock that nonsense off or you will be punished ".  Instead , nothing but riddles.

I remember hearing a date in 1984....a feast of a Martyr of the Eucharist...churches on my town were ripping out altar rails and vesting Eucharistic Ministers.  I told all my buddies that we'd probably never graduate high school. 30 years later and the riddles continue.

When Joey died the internet was lit up by reports that his vision was never restored.  There were also reports that over time some of the visionaries started to doubt the apparitions.

I think this is why Tradition is dying.  Many kids grew up in families in the 70's and 80's hearing that Gods wrath was on its way...first the Fatima 1960, then three days of darkness, then "The Warning",  Firey comets to hit the earth, imposter Pope Paul VI, Sister Lucy and Joey L. dies without without fulfillment of the prophecy...the list goes on and on...

After awhile people just get tired of riddles and unfulfilled prophecy and warnings.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: nctradcath on February 10, 2017, 09:02:09 AM
False apparitions should not be the basis of a persons faith.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Ekim on February 10, 2017, 09:53:38 AM
Not all are "false".
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Arvinger on February 10, 2017, 10:52:38 AM
Quote from: Ekim

I think this is why Tradition is dying.  Many kids grew up in families in the 70's and 80's hearing that Gods wrath was on its way...first the Fatima 1960, then three days of darkness, then "The Warning",  Firey comets to hit the earth, imposter Pope Paul VI, Sister Lucy and Joey L. dies without without fulfillment of the prophecy...the list goes on and on...

After awhile people just get tired of riddles and unfulfilled prophecy and warnings.

Overall I agree with you that obsession about apocalyptic prophecies certainly reached unhealthy level in some of the Traditional Catholic circles, to a degeree that it might be harmful to faith.

However, what exactly was "unfulfilled"? WW2 happened as Our Lady predicted it in Fatima, great apostasy in the Church predicted in the Third Secret has happened as well, infiltration of the Church by Satan and "bishops against bishops, cardinals against cardinals" predicted in Akita is right in front of our eyes. Yes, the material chastisement (be that Three Days of Darkness, rain of fire from Akita or whatever else) has not happened yet, but it might occur anytime (I hope not). It could be 2017 (100th anniversary of Fatima), but it could well be another 20 years (although I don't see how could the Church survive that for another two decades) - God has not given us any timetable, and it is all conditional.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Ekim on February 10, 2017, 12:43:29 PM
Bishop in white stepping over dead bodies fleeing Rome.  
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Ekim on February 10, 2017, 12:46:52 PM
Russia spreading errors so great that only the intervention of the Mother of God could fix....interpreted by many as WWIII...
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Arvinger on February 10, 2017, 12:51:46 PM
Quote from: Ekim
Bishop in white stepping over dead bodies fleeing Rome.  

Which is certainly part of the material chastisement, it can happen anytime - maybe at the 100th anniversary of Fatima (parallel to French king being deposed at the 100th anniversary of Our Lord's request of consecration of France - we shall see, I hope we will be granted some more time). Other prophecies - WW2, great apostasy, diabolical disorientation in the Church etc. have been fulfilled.

Quote from: Ekim
Russia spreading errors so great that only the intervention of the Mother of God could fix....interpreted by many as WWIII...

Depends what the errors of Russia are - communism has certainly spread around the world, now infecting the West.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Ekim on February 10, 2017, 01:23:28 PM
If Fatima message is so great. / important why doesn't the Pope... and or Popes heed its warning and perform the requested Consecration?

Again, not meant to be a Fatima thread... I will stop here, but all reasonable questions why young people are no longer taking stock into the Fatima message.  After a hundred years it's difficult to put any credence to the warning.  Popes and Bishops don't even find it to be important, why would young Catholics (rhetorical).
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Arvinger on February 10, 2017, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: Ekim
If Fatima message is so great. / important

Do you doubt that? :facepalm:

Quote from: Ekim
why doesn't the Pope... and or Popes heed its warning and perform the requested Consecration?

Because they don't believe in Fatima (and probably don't even have the Catholic faith) and try to do everything to bury it, since the Third Secret, warning against Vatican II and apostasy in the Church, exposes them as enemies of Christ.

Quote from: Ekim
Again, not meant to be a Fatima thread... I will stop here, but all reasonable questions why young people are no longer taking stock into the Fatima message.  After a hundred years it's difficult to put any credence to the warning.  

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. Great apostasy starting at the top and "ѕυιcιdє of altering the faith" (which Pope Pius XII linked to Fatima Message and the Third Secret) happened exactly as Our Lady predicted it. Regarding the material chastisement, we should rather be grateful it has not occured yet and pray for being granted more time and for the Consecration to finally be performed.

Quote from: Ekim
Popes and Bishops don't even find it to be important, why would young Catholics (rhetorical).

Popes and Bishops don't find the Catholic dogmas and Catholic faith important either these days, many of them don't believe in anything.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Ekim on February 10, 2017, 03:49:31 PM
AGAIN....A..G...A...I...N...

This is NOT about the Fatima message(true or false), but rather, the PERCEPTION of young Catholics regarding prophetic messages and "Warnings" given by apparitions, and why they may NOT believe in "Warnings" such as those given at Garabandal, Bayside.... and even Fatima.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Nadir on February 11, 2017, 05:04:11 AM
Why do you lump Fatima with Garabandal and Bayside?
And why do you say Fatima (true or false) when Fatima has been approved by the Church?

Our Lord sent His Blessed Mother to us to give us a warning. Amend your lives or else... etc. A warning is not doom and gloom. A warning is a gift from God to give us a chance to amend our lives. Of course there have been false warnings but these do not negate the Mercy  thar God is offering us through His Blessed Mother.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Ekim on February 11, 2017, 05:25:19 AM
The point isn't wether any of these apparitions are true or false.  The point is, that they are ...and  they certainly are...perceived by many young Catholics as being irrelevant because they never SEEM to come true.

In the parish I grew up in...a very large intercity parish...they were on fire with Fatima in the 70's and 80'.  They were loading up on Busses to go to Bayside NY, just waiting for the errors of Russia to start WWIII.  Then came a kinder gentler Gorbachev.  The Berlin Wall came down. No war occurred and even now Vladimir Putin sounds more Catholic than the Pope at times.

Young Catholics believe the Warnings are irrelevant.  They just do.  Niro fiddled while Rome burned.  
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: nctradcath on February 11, 2017, 06:53:20 AM
If these people believe patently false apparitions and other falsehoods, I can see why Thier faith is confused.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Ekim on February 11, 2017, 07:49:52 AM
The same is true with officially recognized apparitions.  Like it or not, they are regarded as irrelevant.  A warning given by Our Lady of La Salette, Good Success, St. Francis, Akita, Theresa Neumann, Emerick (sp?), some centuries ago, are regarded as fairy tales.  The just hand of God never comes.  Like the father who keeps saying "You better eat your brussel sprouts or else..." but never follows through.  Eventually the threats become irrelevant.  Kids become indifferent at best.

Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: nctradcath on February 11, 2017, 09:17:13 AM
If they lose the faith through their own fault, then they are damned if they do not return and repent before death. I am not sure what you are trying to say. To seriously study history is to know that the faith is true and must be embraced. That is our purpose in this life. If a person is shallow and superficial, that is their own fault. I feel great sorrow for them. The only thing that can be done is prayer and sacrifice.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Nadir on February 11, 2017, 02:39:05 PM
Ekim said:
Quote
The just hand of God never comes.


Are you Catholic? Please be careful of your words. My first reaction to this is: Blasphemy! Thou shalt not put the Lord your God to the test!
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Arvinger on February 11, 2017, 04:01:01 PM
The just hand of God is clearly visible - without doubt God permits Francis, Kasper et al. to do what they are doing as punishment, we are observing chastisement from decades now. The final, material chastisement has not arrived yet, but I don't see how could anyone conclude that the warnings from Fatima, La Salette and other apparitions are unfulfilled. The main part of them, that is apostasy in the Church, was fulfilled. If anyone concludes that the warnings were not fulfilled it means he did not study the apparitions seriously or he doesn't realize what happens around us.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Ekim on February 11, 2017, 06:02:59 PM
Just hand is NOT visible.  The wicked are never punished.  The Church continues to self destruct and those who took an oath to uphold Her truths are selling Her out for 30 pieces of silver.  The Traditional "life boat" is capsizing.  Children are leaving Traditional chapels far more than they are staying and populating them.  Where are the St. Padre Pio's?  Where are the donkeys kneeling in adoration and St. Anthony 's?  Where are levitating saint priests like St. Joseph of Cupertino?  Where are the valid sacraments...one...two...three hours drive away??? It seems as if God has left men to themselves to self destruct.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: nctradcath on February 11, 2017, 06:13:29 PM
What part of "great apostasy" is difficult to understand?
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: nctradcath on February 11, 2017, 06:15:40 PM
I don't mean to be harsh Ekim. Please pray your Rosary and ask Our Lady for guidance.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Matto on February 11, 2017, 06:18:40 PM
Quote from: Ekim
Where are the St. Padre Pio's?  Where are the donkeys kneeling in adoration and St. Anthony 's?  Where are levitating saint priests like St. Joseph of Cupertino?

I am sure there are some saints among the traditional Catholics. And I know there are miracles still happening because I witnessed one myself at my SSPX chapel. God is still with us, though he is probably angry with most of us as he was just before the flood. We are certainly being chastised with bad priests and bishops and popes (or antipopes if you are a sedevacantist) which is a far worse chastisement than the three days of darkness in my opinion.
Title: The Warning may be VERY soon
Post by: Ekim on February 11, 2017, 06:42:57 PM
You all are missing my point...I am playing Devils Advocate.  People no longer believe in any sort of impending "Warning " because....(read above)...

I'm out!