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Offline Neil Obstat

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Thailand Cave Rescue of 12 Boys & Coach Soccer Team
« on: July 11, 2018, 03:04:56 AM »
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  • .
    Now that it's over, so to speak, maybe one thread on CI to refer to later would be nice?
    .
    For the past 2 weeks hundreds of rescue workers from all over the world have been helping to save the 13 trapped in a cave.
    .
    What they were doing in there is a story to itself. Let's say it was some kind of mistake.
    .
    The volunteers who originally found the lost team were cave diver experts from England.
    England is a few thousand miles away from Thailand. These guys came a long way to risk their lives.
    .

    British cave diver Robert Charles Harper explores an opening on June 29.
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    The locals were having quite a lot of difficulty finding the boys, and hope was beginning to wear thin when the British expert cave divers arrived and found their way into newly remote passages the others had not yet tried. The diving conditions were extremely hazardous, with total darkness and water currents with debris in murky waters with zero visibility. How these guys were able to get anywhere is going to be the subject of some amount in the future.
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    One of the plan options for getting the boys out was to teach them how to use SCUBA to swim underwater, but some of the boys couldn't swim. So a plan for how to teach them scuba in such extremely challenging conditions involved taking 4 months to train the boys. Needless to say, that wasn't a good idea. Monsoon rains were coming in which case the cave would be even more flooded with water. The degree of danger is made known by the fact that one volunteer, a retired Navy Seal from Thailand, died while returning from making air tank delivery when he ran out of air while underwater. Saman Kunan gave his life to deliver life-saving air to those he was trying to save, and lost his own life when he ran out of air. 
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    This is in a part of the world where Budhism is the principal religion.
    .
    Source

    Family members pray in front of a Buddhist statue near the cave on July 8
    .
    Here is a photo from CNN showing 4 women "praying" at a Buddhist shrine. 
    Perhaps someone can explain the dark-skinned figure holding a gold 3-pronged stick in one hand and a skull on a stick in the other.
    The 4 women are doing something, but I'm not quite sure "praying" is an accurate description.
    There are bowls on a level surface in front of the women -- with what, incense or something else?
    What posture is that, a squat? They're sitting on their heels as if during elimination. 
    They're not kneeling. Or am I misunderstanding something here?
    Recall that in Buddhism they do not recognize any God, but some other sort of mysterious power.
    It is a religion that seems closer to atheism than to any kind of theism.
    No details, to explain what many of the photos have in them, are provided.
    Just photos with a sound bite caption.
    .

    This undated photo, released via the Thailand Navy Seal Facebook page, shows rescuers with their 
    hands locked. The caption said, "We Thai and the international teams join forces to bring the young
    Wild Boars home." The Wild Boars is the name of the soccer team the young boys play on.
    .
    What isn't explained is the meaning of the circular wood beads strung around two of the wrists, which are right hands, while the third wrist is a left hand, which has no bead bracelet. You can see also that there is a red cord tied next to the wooden beads which has smaller round beads strung on it. I've been told these are Buddhist items as well, but I'm not sure what they're for.  Perhaps the left arm belongs to a foreigner who is not Buddhist? 
    .

    The body of Saman Kunan, a former Thai Navy Seal, is carried during a repatriation and religious
    rites ceremony on Friday, July 6. Kunan died Friday as he returned from an operation to deliver oxygen 
    tanks to the cave. He ran out of air while underwater, an official said.
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    I'm not sure why a Buddhist monk would be holding a roll of toilet paper at a time like this. Perhaps someone with more experience can explain that. The death of Mr. Kunan is the only casualty in the entire operation, which is tragic, but remarkable as well.
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    Monks attend a Buddhist prayer for the team on July 1.
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    Scuba tanks are delivered to the search site on July 1.
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    I haven't seen anywhere how many scuba tanks were involved, but in this one photo alone you can see about 170 (13 x 13 = 169).
    It would seem smart to have a re-filling apparatus brought in, instead of so many tanks. Maybe they had both. 
    .
    In a news broadcast, I heard about the one really large capacity water pump they brought in to the site, which they were relying on to keep water out of the cave while crews went back inside the cave to retrieve the equipment that had been left inside (which would include empty air tanks), that one water pump failed, and water started going back into the cave, so the crews had to leave. They may have abandoned some amount of equipment because it was too risky to go in to get that stuff out.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Thailand Cave Rescue of 12 Boys & Coach Soccer Team
    « Reply #1 on: July 11, 2018, 03:16:09 AM »
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  • .
    I heard on several occasions, early in this scene, reporters saying that "oxygen tanks" were being carried into the cave.
    .
    But as the days went by, the term SCUBA tanks became more used. 
    There is a big difference between oxygen tanks and SCUBA tanks. 
    If anyone tries to use oxygen only while scuba diving they won't have long to live. 
    So for the sake of safety, even though oxygen content is what gives air breathe-ability, the tanks contain air, not just oxygen.
    Air is about 20% oxygen, 79% nitrogen and 1% other gasses.
    The nitrogen doesn't help in itself to sustain life, but it is necessary for health reasons.
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Thailand Cave Rescue of 12 Boys & Coach Soccer Team
    « Reply #2 on: July 11, 2018, 03:42:37 AM »
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  •  ;)Many Christians were praying for the boys too.

    Good to hear they are rescued. 
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Thailand Cave Rescue of 12 Boys & Coach Soccer Team
    « Reply #3 on: July 11, 2018, 03:56:43 AM »
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  •  ;) Many Christians were praying for the boys too.

    Good to hear they are rescued.
    .
    It was getting rather iffy there for a while, quite a dramatic story in progress.
    They got experts together from all over the world and everyone had a different outlook.
    Too many unknowns involved.
    In the end, the presence of too much water in the system was the main problem.
    So then they brought in one very large capacity extraction pump and that worked to get everyone out.
    But while the volunteers were trying to go back in and extricate the equipment left behind, the big pump failed.
    That was almost like starting over again with people in the cave and the water level rising.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Thailand Cave Rescue of 12 Boys & Coach Soccer Team
    « Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 02:30:04 AM »
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  • In early July, Thailand was at the center of the world’s attention during a multinational effort to rescue 12 boys from a flooded cave. The boys were members of the Wild Boars soccer club and had been trapped, along with their coach, in Tham Luang Cave in Chiang Rai Province since June 23. People around the world, including Thailand’s tiny but thriving Catholic community, prayed for the safe return of the boys.
    Cardinal Francis Xavier Kriengsak Kovithavanij, archbishop of Bangkok and the leader of the Catholic Bishops Conference of Thailand, sent a pastoral letter to the Catholic faithful in that country urging them to pray for the boys’ safety. The search-and-rescue operation which involved many countries and peoples from all backgrounds and faiths took 18 days and brought all the boys and their coach to safety.
    It sadly claimed the life of Saman Gunan, a former member of the Thai Navy Seals, who had volunteered to help.
    But the Tham Luang Cave drama’s mostly happy conclusion demonstrated how unwavering faith and creative efforts could solve an “impossible” mission.


    https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/07/17/thailand-cave-rescue-draws-attention-its-thriving-catholic-population


    Offline poche

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    Re: Thailand Cave Rescue of 12 Boys & Coach Soccer Team
    « Reply #5 on: July 21, 2018, 04:30:15 AM »
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  • During the crisis, at the Cathedral of Saint Michael in Thare, a small village located along Nonghan Lake in northeastern Thailand’s Isaan region, Catholics offered Mass and asked for the intervention of St. Michael the Archangel to protect the young men.
    Isaan is the largest region in Thailand. It is composed of 20 provinces and bordered by the Mekong River, sharing the waterway with Laos to the north and east and Cambodia to the southeast. Thailand is known for its majestic wats, or temples, but Isaan’s landscape also has huge Catholic churches. It is difficult to imagine that in its earliest days the Catholic community here was small enough to gather in small cottages or in rented rooms to celebrate Masses and conduct catechism classes. Now the community produces Catholic priests and religious.
    Unlike in Bangkok, where parishioners at Catholic churches are mostly from other countries, the Catholics in Isaan are descendants of Thai people who converted in the last century or are Thais with Vietnamese ancestry. The Archdiocese of Thare-Nongsaeng, covering the province of Sakon Nakhon in the Isaan region, is home to more than 3 million people, with just around 54,000 Catholics, or 1.7 percent of the population.


    https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/07/17/thailand-cave-rescue-draws-attention-its-thriving-catholic-population

    Offline poche

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    Re: Thailand Cave Rescue of 12 Boys & Coach Soccer Team
    « Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 05:25:42 AM »
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  • Catholicism in Isaan did not arise as part of the mission of the Dominican Friars in 1660 that established the Vicariate Apostolic of Siam in 1660. Many Catholics here came from Vietnam, escaping persecution under the reign of King Tu Duc in 1848 to 1883. (More would follow in later years after Vietnam’s colonization by the French, when Catholics were involved in the local resistance against colonial authority.)
    Despite persecution in the 19th century, the Portuguese Jesuits, the Spanish Order of the Preachers and a group of secular priests and laypersons known as the Society of Foreign Missions of Paris (abbreviated in French as M.E.P) were able to continue mission work in Vietnam. When the persecution in Vietnam began, some M.E.P. priests, along with a few families, escaped to Laos, then a part of French Indochina. They settled and built a church.
    After some time, to further spread the faith and to find a livelihood, Catholics crossed the Mekong River and reached the city of Ubon Ratchathani in 1881.
    But they did not stop there. One of the priests, Father Xavier Greco (“Keko” to the locals), decided that the Catholic faith must be known far and wide. In 1884, a group composed of 20 families, or around 150 people—Vietnamese and baptized Thais, many of whom were former slaves, and catechumens—crossed Nonghan Lake in a small boat and bamboo rafts. Invoking the intervention of St. Michael Archangel, they reached the Sakon Nakhon Province unharmed.
    In remembrance of their ancestors, a boat-shaped Cathedral of Saint Michael was built in the Tha Rae subdistrict in 1968. At the main road, opposite the church, are homes inspired by French architecture that include Thare-Nongsaeng missionary office. That 100-year-old building used to be the office of Father Keko; it is now converted into a private residence and a restaurant.
    “The Buddhist monks and the Thai people are hospitable. Sakon Nakhon has the largest concentration of Catholics in Thailand, especially in the Thare district,” Father Prayoon Phongpit, counselor of St. Joseph Sakonnakhon School, said.


    https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/07/17/thailand-cave-rescue-draws-attention-its-thriving-catholic-population

    Offline poche

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    Re: Thailand Cave Rescue of 12 Boys & Coach Soccer Team
    « Reply #7 on: July 26, 2018, 05:17:55 AM »
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  • Father Prayoon’s grandparents were among the first Catholics who traveled from Vietnam to Thare. Thai government policy toward migrants was not always favorable, however, to Catholics.
    “Despite the assimilation, the movement of the immigrants were controlled and restricted. Our people needed permission before they could travel outside of Sakon Nakhon,” Father Prayoon recalled.
    And since Catholic children could not attend schools in town centers, the first parish priest of Thare, Father Joseph Combouriue, established a parochial school a few years after he arrived in 1885.
    During the Franco-Thai War in 1940, Thai authorities found excuses to target the new religion as a means to resist the French occupation. The presence of the French missionaries led to the rounding up of members of the Catholic communities, accused of spying on behalf of the French.
    Many Catholics and clergy were tortured to renounce their faith. On Dec. 16, 1940, seven people, including two nuns, a catechist, an elderly woman and three young people, were executed in Songkhon, in Mukdahan Province. They were declared Martyrs of the Church and were beatified by Pope John Paul II in October 1989.

    https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/07/17/thailand-cave-rescue-draws-attention-its-thriving-catholic-population


    Offline Merry

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    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline poche

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    Re: Thailand Cave Rescue of 12 Boys & Coach Soccer Team
    « Reply #9 on: July 26, 2018, 10:51:23 PM »
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  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_string_(Kabbalah)
    What does any of that have to do with the Catholic Church in Thailand?

    Offline poche

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    Re: Thailand Cave Rescue of 12 Boys & Coach Soccer Team
    « Reply #10 on: August 05, 2018, 02:12:53 AM »
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  • Today, the priests, the religious sisters and laypeople of the region continue to be witnesses of Christ. Though they are seeds scattered on rocky grounds, considering the difficulties missionaries have in obtaining visas, they somehow thrive and continue to bloom. The ecclesiastical province has 72 priests serving 75 parishes. The archdiocese has established eight schools providing excellent education for everyone. Students are required to study the Catechism, but they are not forced to become Catholics.
    There is also now an ongoing interreligious dialogue with Buddhist monks.
    “We discuss common ground on how we will promote peace and justice as well as in reaching out to each other in times of needs. Every Sunday, together with the Filipino teachers, we teach English to the novices in the Buddhist monastery,” Father Prayoon said.

    https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/07/17/thailand-cave-rescue-draws-attention-its-thriving-catholic-population

    I recommend working the truth of the catechism into those English classes.


     

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