Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => The Catholic Bunker => Topic started by: Neil Obstat on November 08, 2018, 09:31:18 AM

Title: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 08, 2018, 09:31:18 AM
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Just about every radio station is all over this story.
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Interviews being broadcast
21 victims being treated right now for injuries, including cuts from leaping behind tables or out through broken windows for cover.
12 people dead, including a police officer who stopped writing a traffic ticket to go into the bar when a man alerted him.
     The officer was within a few years of retirement from the police force.
The shooter had a Glock 21, 0.45 calibur handgun with an extended magazine (illegal in California). It had been legally purchased, locally. 
He was a former Marine, who reportedly had "mental issues," but somehow not severe enough to be detained or confined ("5150"). 
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Hundreds of college students were at the bar before midnight when the shooting occurred.
They scattered immediately, leaving the bar by every possible means, back doors, fire escapes, out windows after breaking them.
The shooter was standing near the front door so probably nobody went out through that door while the shooter was active.
The shooter was neutralized quickly. He was a local resident, 28 years old.
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Local colleges have cancelled classes for the day:
     Moorpark College
     Cal Lutheran
     Pepperdine University
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One station reported that there had been some people present at this bar who had also been present in Las Vegas last year at that shooting.
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Some of the people present had in mind that a shooting could happen and had already been thinking about what to do in such an event.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 08, 2018, 10:38:59 AM
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Some people present were Cal State Channel Islands students.
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Shooter's name is released: Ian David Long, resident of nearby Newbury Park, 28 years old.
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Correction: an eyewitness claims that about 80 people were at the bar, which is a little less than usual (earlier reports said 100 or more).
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Borderline is a Country music theme bar, where they have line dancing and many attendees go there to learn how to line dance.
      Last night, Wednesday, was "college night" at the bar, when 18 is the minimum age, average attendees about 22 years old.
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A witness was asked if he would consider returning there in the future and he replied that it's too early to answer that question.
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From the 101 (Ventura) freeway, Borderline is visible along the side of the road, near Moorpark and traffic control cautions motorists to be careful passing that area today because some motorists might unexpectedly slow down as they come within view of the Bar & Grill.
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Just now they're saying the shooter initially walked up to the entrance and shot the security guards before shooting other people inside.
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One witness says he has been to this bar at least 100 times and he has never seen any shooting or weapons there before, nor had he thought that might be possible;  there have been fights in the past but they are put down quickly.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Ladislaus on November 08, 2018, 11:00:58 AM
Quote from: Neil Obstat on November 08, 2018, 09:31:18 AM
One station reported that there had been some people present at this bar who had also been present in Las Vegas last year at that shooting.

Well, I want to find out who those were and make sure I'm never too close to them.  :)

Las Vegas is one of those events where everyone and his uncle was there.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 08, 2018, 11:06:44 AM
Quote from: Ladislaus on November 08, 2018, 11:00:58 AM
Well, I want to find out who those were and make sure I'm never too close to them.  :)

Las Vegas is one of those events where everyone and his uncle was there.
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Didn't Forrest Gump say he was there?
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In the Old West lots of customers brought sidearms into bars or saloons. 
Sometimes they shot their guns inside the bar and business went on as usual.
They would shoot their guns just to express their approval of something.
No big deal.
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Now someone shoots a handgun in a bar and it's suddenly national bad news.
If everyone had been packing heat this wouldn't have taken place to begin with.

Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: JezusDeKoning on November 08, 2018, 04:45:13 PM
Lord, have mercy. Unfortunately, you can't fix crazy, and anyone who needs violence and killing to fulfill their goals is a damn lunatic.

May they rest in peace. Children are not supposed to die before their parents.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Maria Regina on November 08, 2018, 06:46:25 PM
See the map below of the planned crazy shootings that have occurred since the Jєωιѕн ѕуηαgσgυє killings
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Ask yourself:
How many of these shooters were MK ultras?
How many of these shooters were on drugs?
Actors involved?
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There are just too many shootings. There must be a connection. These cannot be merely coincidences!
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Oct. 30 - Vallejo, CA 2 dead/5 wounded
Oct. 30 - Los Angeles, CA 0/5
Oct. 29 - Riverside, CA 0/7
Nov. 2 -  Long Beach, CA 0/4
Nov. 7 - Thousand Oaks, CA 13/23
Nov. 1 - Minneapolis, MN 0/5
Nov. 3 - Watertown, NY 0/8
Oct. 31 - Detroit, MI 1/4
Nov. 1  - Springfield, MO 2/4
Oct. 27 - Memphis, TN 0/5
Nov. 2 - Tallahassee, FL 3/8
Oct. 28 - El Dorado, Ark. 2/4

Go to https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/shooting-reported-borderline-bar-grill-thousand-oaks-california-n933831
data was missing from the map, except the locations.

(https://dataviz.nbcnews.com/projects/20181108-shooting-since-pittsburgh-map/assets/ai2html-output-560-wide.png)
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Markus on November 08, 2018, 09:11:52 PM
As I've told several people, this is just the latest regularly-scheduled mass shooting. Maybe no one died at all.

"Yawn".
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 08, 2018, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: Markus on November 08, 2018, 09:11:52 PM
As I've told several people, this is just the latest regularly-scheduled mass shooting. Maybe no one died at all.

"Yawn".
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This is the kind of reaction I got when I tried to tell Catholics about the ritual assassination of Fr. Alfred J. Kunz: they didn't believe it happened.
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They didn't read about it in the Tidings or Circle Media so they thought it must not be real.
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The Moslems say Jesus Christ did not die on the cross. Maybe you didn't know about that.
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Perhaps the twin towers at the World Trade Center never existed, just urban legend, Photoshopped in to the NY skyline.
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Or the so-called Old Man in the Mountain in New Hampshire -- just a figment of wild imaginations! 
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2185%2F2182667350_82e29b8a43.jpg&sp=491d4d7dd2b775eefb9a47f4c2442825)
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: JezusDeKoning on November 08, 2018, 10:22:22 PM
Quote from: Maria Regina on November 08, 2018, 06:46:25 PM
See the map below of the planned crazy shootings that have occurred since the Jєωιѕн ѕуηαgσgυє killings
.
Ask yourself:
How many of these shooters were MK ultras?
How many of these shooters were on drugs?
Actors involved?
.
There are just too many shootings. There must be a connection. These cannot be merely coincidences!
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Oct. 30 - Vallejo, CA 2 dead/5 wounded
Oct. 30 - Los Angeles, CA 0/5
Oct. 29 - Riverside, CA 0/7
Nov. 2 -  Long Beach, CA 0/4
Nov. 7 - Thousand Oaks, CA 13/23
Nov. 1 - Minneapolis, MN 0/5
Nov. 3 - Watertown, NY 0/8
Oct. 31 - Detroit, MI 1/4
Nov. 1  - Springfield, MO 2/4
Oct. 27 - Memphis, TN 0/5
Nov. 2 - Tallahassee, FL 3/8
Oct. 28 - El Dorado, Ark. 2/4

Go to https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/shooting-reported-borderline-bar-grill-thousand-oaks-california-n933831
data was missing from the map, except the locations.

(https://dataviz.nbcnews.com/projects/20181108-shooting-since-pittsburgh-map/assets/ai2html-output-560-wide.png)
Remember also that America is the third-biggest country in land and population. There are 320 million people in a giant landmass with more guns than people. Inevitably a portion of those guns will go into the wrong hands.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 08, 2018, 10:38:50 PM
Quote from: JezusDeKoning on November 08, 2018, 10:22:22 PM
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Remember also that America is the third-biggest country in land and population. There are 320 million people in a giant landmass with more guns than people. Inevitably a portion of those guns will go into the wrong hands.
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If everyone in the Borderline Bar & Grill had been wearing a sidearm, this shooting would never have happened in the first place.
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So the more guns the better, but we should be permitted to wear them in public.
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They have open carry in Texas, where bank robberies are almost unheard of.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 09, 2018, 11:46:35 PM
Quote from: Markus on November 08, 2018, 09:11:52 PM
As I've told several people, this is just the latest regularly-scheduled mass shooting. Maybe no one died at all.

"Yawn".
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Whatever you do, do not contact Adam Housley and his wife, actress Tamera Mowry-Housley, and tell them that you as a Catholic don't think their niece, Alaina Housley, was killed Wednesday at Borderline Bar & Grill.
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(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/11/08/ap_18312766301045-deae2b3926e45e842e37eea51b31a3e92113d798-s800-c85.jpg)
This undated photo provided by former Fox News correspondent Adam Housley and his wife, 
actress Tamera Mowry-Housley, shows their niece, Alaina Housley, a Pepperdine University 
freshman who was among those killed in the Wednesday shooting at the 
Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, Calif.

Adam Housley/AP
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https://www.npr.org/2018/11/08/665909790/this-is-going-to-be-absolutely-heart-wrenching-the-thousand-oaks-shooting-victim
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Alaina Housley, 18, had recently started her freshman year at Pepperdine University in Malibu, Calif.
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For hours after the attack and into the early morning hours of Thursday, Housley's family was desperately seeking information about her.
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Housley is the niece of actress Tamera Mowry-Housley and her husband, Adam Housley, a former Fox News reporter.
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Shortly after the shooting, Adam Housley said the teen's "Apple Watch and iPhone still showed her location on the dance floor," the LA Times reported over Twitter (https://twitter.com/andreamcastillo/status/1060507712503443456).
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Hours later, the couple confirmed the young woman's death in a statement, writing, "Our hearts are broken."
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"Alaina was an incredible young woman with so much life ahead of her and we are devastated that her life was cut short in this manner," the couple added.
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Housley's Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/alaina.housley) says she is from Napa, Calif., and photos on the site include several pictures of her surrounded by a group of friends at what appears to be her graduation from Vintage High School.
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"We offer our deepest condolences to the Housley family and ask that our community join us in keeping Alaina's family, friends, and loved ones in their prayers during this incredibly difficult time," Pepperdine University added in a statement.
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And don't try to tell Jason Coffman that you, as a Catholic, don't think he had a son and they're just making all this up.
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/45665156_2032138590143026_3454836766228348928_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=10a0a578db28083b6366240b9f97db58&oe=5C6C7C81)
As I'm sure many of you know, we lost one of our employees last night in the mass shooting that occurred in Thousand Oaks. Cody Coffman was such an encouraging soul, always smiling and so happy all the time. Our hearts are aching today as we mourn him. Cody had such a bright future ahead of him. He was just weeks away from joining the Army. We know Cody's heart and he sacrificed his own life, to protect the ones around him. 
Cody Coffman, you are a hero.
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Cody Coffman, 22, was the oldest son of Jason Coffman, who confirmed his death amid sobs in an interview with reporters.
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"This is going to be absolutely heart-wrenching time for me and my family," Jason Coffman said, adding that Cody's younger brothers and soon-to-be born sister would miss him terribly.
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He recalled their last conversation as the younger man was leaving for Borderline: "I talked to him last night before he headed out the door. The first thing I said was, 'Please don't drink and drive.' The last thing I said was, 'Son, I love you.' "
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Jason Coffman said his son had recently moved in with him, and that Cody had been meeting with recruiters and planned to enlist in the Army, The Sun reported (https://www.sbsun.com/2018/11/08/cody-coffman-22-killed-in-shooting-borderline-bar-and-grill-in-thousand-oaks/).
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He worked at a Camarillo moving company called Attention to Detail.
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On Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/attentiontodetailmoving/photos/a.634268529930046/2032138583476360/?type=3&theater) on Thursday, someone from the company had posted a few lines about Cody Coffman. The tribute described him as an "encouraging soul, always smiling and so happy all the time."
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"Cody had such a bright future ahead of him," it reads. "He was just weeks away from joining the Army. We know Cody's heart and he sacrificed his own life, to protect the ones around him."
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Or any of the other 10 casualties of this, as you say, "fαℓѕє fℓαg" shooting. 
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Maria Regina on November 10, 2018, 01:46:31 AM
From what I have read, FAKE FLAG EVENTS or WAG the DOG events are real acts of terrorism.

Real people are killed, but crisis actors may be employed to create a powerful emotional scene. For example, a white girl is commonly seen at most of these mass shootings. She wears straight long dark brown hair and is usually seen hugging other people and crying with them.

A common feature of these mass shootings is that they are used by the Deep State-controlled Main-Stream Media especially CNN, MSMBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, LA Times, Politico, etc. to create a strong emotional appeal for GUN CONTROL.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 10, 2018, 01:56:08 AM
Quote from: Maria Regina on November 10, 2018, 01:46:31 AM
From what I have read, FAKE FLAG EVENTS or WAG the DOG events are real acts of terrorism.

Real people are killed, but crisis actors may be employed to create a powerful emotional scene. For example, a white girl is commonly seen at most of these mass shootings. She wears straight long dark brown hair and is usually seen hugging other people and crying with them.

A common feature of these mass shootings is that they are used by the Deep State-controlled Main-Stream Media especially CNN, MSMBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, LA Times, Politico, etc. to create a strong emotional appeal for GUN CONTROL.
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And if everyone in the bar had been carrying a gun this would never have happened.
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Sean Adler, one of the first to die, was a bouncer but he did not have a gun. If bouncers were armed they'd be able to do their jobs better.
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/44117027_10214620829289408_6591868556965576704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=d517e66da53b7eae93ab01fbb725604c&oe=5C80388F)            
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Sean Adler, 48, worked at the Borderline Bar & Grill as a bouncer. He also owned a coffee shop called Rivalry Roasters, which he opened over the summer.
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He was a soccer and taekwondo coach.
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The Los Angeles Times reported (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-thousand-oaks-victims-20181108-story.html) that before Adler changed his career path due to a heart attack, he had planned to join the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: JezusDeKoning on November 10, 2018, 08:24:51 AM
Quote from: Maria Regina on November 10, 2018, 01:46:31 AM
From what I have read, FAKE FLAG EVENTS or WAG the DOG events are real acts of terrorism.

Real people are killed, but crisis actors may be employed to create a powerful emotional scene. For example, a white girl is commonly seen at most of these mass shootings. She wears straight long dark brown hair and is usually seen hugging other people and crying with them.

A common feature of these mass shootings is that they are used by the Deep State-controlled Main-Stream Media especially CNN, MSMBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, LA Times, Politico, etc. to create a strong emotional appeal for GUN CONTROL.
That means nothing, though. A white girl with brown hair... is most white girls.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: josefamenendez on November 10, 2018, 09:15:41 AM
i don't know about anyone else but I suspect it's generally true of many people. There are so many shootings that are questionable re: whether it was staged, fαℓѕє fℓαg,crisis actors, people died, people didn't- that emotionally I am kind of distanced from the "tragedies", if there actually are some.. I'm afraid to buy into any of it.  It's hard to intellectually invest in a macabre masquerade designed to confiscate guns, but most important, to confiscate US personally, if we do not have guns. If people died at any of these shootings, I am truly sorry, but the obviously contrived nature of most of these events cast doubts on the potential "real" ones.
I suspect , like others have said, that there are some composite "events", where it's planned but people actually died, and there is much infiltration of crisis actors and complicit government authorities and police.
I don't have TV,( so I may miss a lot of this) but I never see family, except one or two token spokespeople; never see a funeral or even a procession of funeral cars. All pictures of victims seem to be recent ( no history?) and even the pictures at the shooting site seem to all look  alike- staged. I wonder where all the ambulances and helicopters are- there should be scores of them at a major shooting- there is usually one or two placed perfectly and a bunch of people at the event carrying a "victim" or two. Many pictures show the people hugging and crying- no tears. Same every time. Where are all of the lawsuits? I'm sure many family of victims would lawyer-up and sue everything and everyone they can, but we don't hear about this. At 9/11 there were thousands of lawsuits, and the families were offered a blanket payment of over a million dollars that was attached to a gag order- most took it. I guess that was an expensive mistake for the globalist  perps.
Why didn't the Sandy Hook victim families sue the school, the police dept or the township? No, they only sued the federal government over gun laws, and proceeded to tour the country for gun regulation.
I know I sound jaded, but none of this sits right -psychologically it's all off-kilter and maybe it's part of the globalist plan to desensitize us to horror as well, I don't know. All I do know is these mass shooting are here today and gone tomorrow- look at Las Vegas (where I do believe there were mass casualties)
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 13, 2018, 11:45:59 PM
Quote from: josefamenendez on November 10, 2018, 09:15:41 AM
I don't know about anyone else but I suspect it's generally true of many people. There are so many shootings that are questionable re: whether it was staged, fαℓѕє fℓαg,crisis actors, people died, people didn't- that emotionally I am kind of distanced from the "tragedies", if there actually are some.. I'm afraid to buy into any of it.
...
 Many pictures show the people hugging and crying- no tears. Same every time. Where are all of the lawsuits? I'm sure many family of victims would lawyer-up and sue everything and everyone they can, but we don't hear about this.
...
I know I sound jaded, but none of this sits right -psychologically it's all off-kilter and maybe it's part of the globalist plan to desensitize us to horror as well, I don't know. All I do know is these mass shooting are here today and gone tomorrow-
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So then if your next door neighbor was one of several people shot and killed at a local restaurant then suddenly you would say THAT was real?
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Or if a close family relative was one of several random victims in a drive-by machine gun slaughter you'd say, "Okay, this time it was real?"
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But so long as it's people dying whom you've never known or heard of, then there's no way it can be real TO YOU, since it's not in your "experience?"
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I knew a man, quite intelligent, who told me that none of the "Internet rumours" that were going around about Bishop Fellay were real.
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This was about 10 years ago.
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He said that the reports you read about, saying that the SSPX is sliding into phase with Vat.II and too-traditional priests are being kicked out, are all fake.
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He thought that +Fellay was squeaky clean, GREC was a hoax, and there never was any AFD (April Fifteenth Declaration) in 2012.
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Eventually I found out:  because these things were not part of his personal experience, he decided to deny their reality.
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Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: roscoe on November 14, 2018, 10:50:35 AM
Borderline ===== Another Obvious Hoax :sleep:
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: josefamenendez on November 14, 2018, 06:27:34 PM
Quote from: Neil Obstat on November 13, 2018, 11:45:59 PM
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So then if your next door neighbor was one of several people shot and killed at a local restaurant then suddenly you would say THAT was real?
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Or if a close family relative was one of several random victims in a drive-by machine gun slaughter you'd say, "Okay, this time it was real?"
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But so long as it's people dying whom you've never known or heard of, then there's no way it can be real TO YOU, since it's not in your "experience?"
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I knew a man, quite intelligent, who told me that none of the "Internet rumours" that were going around about Bishop Fellay were real.
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This was about 10 years ago.
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He said that the reports you read about, saying that the SSPX is sliding into phase with Vat.II and too-traditional priests are being kicked out, are all fake.
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He thought that +Fellay was squeaky clean, GREC was a hoax, and there never was any AFD (April Fifteenth Declaration) in 2012.
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Eventually I found out:  because these things were not part of his personal experience, he decided to deny their reality.
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Oh, please. Quite the straw man argument. You are implying if I don't literally see it I don't believe it- how silly. I believe JFK was αssαssιnαtҽd, that soldiers were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and... I actually believe Australia exists even though I've never been there :)
These mass shootings have so many other twisted, irregular oddities attached to them that doubting them  has NOTHING to do with the possibility of a shooting taking place, it's the entire scenario that belies the said event.
Using your example, if my neighbor was a 'victim" of a shooting, but I never saw grieving relatives, never saw a notice for a funeral, the victim's house was bulldozed a week later, and no one spoke about it after a few days , I might have some questions, no?
I admit, I believe this luciferian culture is capable of deceiving and plotting the most horrible events ( even to the point of making the average person feel guilty for doubting it) to enslave our minds and advance their evil agenda.
Like I said, if (and I am sure there are many) people have died in these staged shootings, they are victims of not just the "lone" shooter, who himself may be a victim as well, but of the demonic plotters who will do ANYTHING to get what they want.
PS- The Borderline shooting appears to be old news already... what has it been, 4 days? We are experiencing mass PTSD- deliberately. Friday is coming, so there will probably be another mass shooting for the weekend news cycle.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 15, 2018, 03:47:02 PM
Quote from: josefamenendez on November 14, 2018, 06:27:34 PM
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Quote
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So then if your next door neighbor was one of several people shot and killed at a local restaurant then suddenly you would say THAT was real?
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Or if a close family relative was one of several random victims in a drive-by machine gun slaughter you'd say, "Okay, this time it was real?"
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But so long as it's people dying whom you've never known or heard of, then there's no way it can be real TO YOU, since it's not in your "experience?"
.
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Oh, please. Quite the straw man argument. You are implying if I don't literally see it I don't believe it - how silly. I believe JFK was αssαssιnαtҽd, that soldiers were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and... I actually believe Australia exists even though I've never been there. :)

These mass shootings have so many other twisted, irregular oddities attached to them that doubting them has NOTHING to do with the possibility of a shooting taking place, it's the entire scenario that belies the said event.

Using your example, if my neighbor was a "victim" of a shooting, but I never saw grieving relatives, never saw a notice for a funeral, the victim's house was bulldozed a week later, and no one spoke about it after a few days, I might have some questions, no?

I admit, I believe this luciferian culture is capable of deceiving and plotting the most horrible events (even to the point of making the average person feel guilty for doubting it) to enslave our minds and advance their evil agenda.

Like I said, if (and I am sure there are many) people have died in these staged shootings, they are victims of not just the "lone" shooter, who himself may be a victim as well, but of the demonic plotters who will do ANYTHING to get what they want.

P.S. - The Borderline shooting appears to be old news already... what has it been, 4 days? We are experiencing mass PTSD- deliberately. Friday is coming, so there will probably be another mass shooting for the weekend news cycle.
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If you don't mind, I'm going to copy your reply, here, and show it to people I know who were personally involved in the Borderline shooting.
Is that okay with you? I mean, if you're willing to post this on a publicly accessible forum then you shouldn't mind if I show the copy around.
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And then, if you are genuine in this opinion, then you won't mind if I come back here and post responses I get, face to face with people.
They're going to want to know what the website was where I saw this, but I'd rather not drag CI into it.
Nor would I want to implicate all Traditional Catholics by saying it is found on a trad forum.
So what if Friday comes and goes without any "mass shooting for the weekend news cycle?" Will you be disappointed?
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It will take me about a week to do this. So you can beg for mercy and plead temporary insanity for the next few days.
But after that, your words are cast in stone, and you get to live with the consequences.
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If you really want to "dig in" with this, as written, it would be a big help for you to post a list of the "other twisted, irregular oddities attached" to the Borderline Bar & Grill shooting which you have noticed. Is that what you think of the "lone shooter" who turned up dead himself, a twisted, irregular odditiy? Of course, if you can't think of any, perhaps you'd like to withdraw that sentence.
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In your first sentence, you accuse me of implying that if you don't literally see it you don't believe it, and therefore it's a "straw man argument." Actually, I was asking a question hoping to get clarification. If you hadn't been so vague to begin with, that wouldn't have been necessary. But you're still being vague! (While you pretend to answer!) Why would you believe in the JFK assassination? Don't you think that could have been "staged" too? I mean, if it's the STAGED part that gets to you "in these staged shootings," and the "lone shooter" what, in the school depository building, not the grassy knoll, correct? Your words, remember?
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I have to ask, because I've known people who could see a thing happen with their own eyes, then immediately afterward they would say they saw something else happen, or even nothing at all. This happens in the courtroom, where three or more eyewitnesses all have a very different story to tell.
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It might help if you could remind me if you also think the moon landings were "staged" or that the earth is "flat." It's hard to keep track of who, what.
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You might not be aware that in Communist Red China, they would shoot a prisoner in the head, and he would get no funeral, but they would send his family a bill for the price of the bullet. The family was forbidden from grieving for their lost son in public, lest they would be fined or imprisoned, and they couldn't hold any funeral for him nor bury his body. And they were forbidden from speaking about it to anyone lest their house would be bulldozed kind of like Tiananmen Square, but there they used tanks with bulldozer-like tracks. So then, using your example, is that a case of when you might have some questions? Or would you conclude that the son never existed and there was no shooting in the back of his head, and the bill for the bullet is fake?
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If you would like to see grieving relatives or a notice for a funeral, perhaps you'd be interested in the public ceremony being held in Thousand Oaks this week. Or perhaps you're getting ready to say all those people were just Photoshopped into the pictures.
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BTW in an attempt to make you look less ignorant, I took the liberty of correcting a few of your typos.
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Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 15, 2018, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: Markus on November 08, 2018, 09:11:52 PM
As I've told several people, this is just the latest regularly-scheduled mass shooting. Maybe no one died at all.

"Yawn".
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I would highly recommend you make yourself scarce around law enforcement officers for the next few weeks, Markus.
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https://www.vcstar.com/story/news/2018/11/11/memorial-service-set-ron-helus-officer-killed-shooting/1966006002/
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(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2018/11/08/PVCS/0d7450cb-eedf-4333-a73d-a65d2368fffc-AP18312580057951.jpg?width=534&height=401&fit=bounds&auto=webp)

Memorial service scheduled Thursday for Ron Helus, sheriff's sergeant killed in Borderline shooting
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A memorial service will be held Thursday for the Ventura County Sheriff's Office sergeant who was killed when he responded to a mass shooting Wednesday night at the Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks.
Services for Sgt. Ron Helus will begin at noon Thursday at Calvary Community Church, 5495 Via Rocas in Westlake Village.
Thousand Oaks shooting coverage:


Immediately after the memorial service, there will be a short procession and graveside service at Pierce Brothers Valley Oaks Mortuary and Cemetery, 5600 Lindero Canyon Road in Westlake Village. Parking will be limited and carpooling is suggested.

Helus was one of the first officers to arrive on the scene about 11:20 p.m. Wednesday after a hooded man entered the bar and began shooting. Helus was shot several times and died later at a hospital.

The 29-year veteran of the Ventura County Sheriff's Office was among 12 people killed by Ian David Long, 28, of Newbury Park. Long later died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
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Tim Conway Jr. (son of actor Tim Conway, from Steve Allen Show, McHale's Navy and Carol Burnett Show), who is a broadcaster on KFI AM 640, said yesterday that he expects about 100,000 people to show up for this funeral, today (now in progress).
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(http://www.timconway.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/TimConwayJoeFlynn.jpg)
Tim Conway as Ensign Parker, McHale is on left.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: josefamenendez on November 15, 2018, 05:35:45 PM
Thank you for correcting my glaring ignorance with an ad hominem attack...nice.
If you read what I wrote , spelling and all, I did NOT say people did not die. I DID say there were certain shootings that were doubtful in my eyes-Sandy Hook for example. I DID say that these shootings were more than likely NOT spontaneous single shooter events and that they were planned by "Deep State" (for lack of a better term) for a specific outcome- I don't pretend to know what their final goal is, but I can only imagine. I did say that the doubtful ones also cast doubt ( for me) on some that are actual, which does lead to some confusion, intended or not. The "twisted, irregular oddities"was a general statement about all of the shootings in question- Parkland, Sandy Hook,etc..Remember Gene Rosen and Robbie Parker- was that normal?
Borderline reminds me of Las Vegas- that was a bloodbath..but are we sure of the shooter in Las Vegas? The 4 Seasons and Saudi presence, other shooters, armed helicopters?

This brave officer who died unfortunately may have been killed in a staged event- it does not mean he did not die or that he was not a hero. I do NOT often (if ever) see funerals or families and the like, and I would be glad to see your research later on.
I believe in the moon landing ( although I have questions about getting through the Van Allen radiation (sp!) belts.
There are no denials here, only doubts and questions. And yes- there are so many shootings on a regular basis that Borderline IS already out of the news. Very sad.
Sure, you can show them my post, and give them my condolences.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Markus on November 16, 2018, 11:07:58 PM
Quote from: Neil Obstat on November 08, 2018, 09:56:26 PM
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This is the kind of reaction I got when I tried to tell Catholics about the ritual assassination of Fr. Alfred J. Kunz: they didn't believe it happened.
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They didn't read about it in the Tidings or Circle Media so they thought it must not be real.
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The Moslems say Jesus Christ did not die on the cross. Maybe you didn't know about that.
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Perhaps the twin towers at the World Trade Center never existed, just urban legend, Photoshopped in to the NY skyline.
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Or the so-called Old Man in the Mountain in New Hampshire -- just a figment of wild imaginations!
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2185%2F2182667350_82e29b8a43.jpg&sp=491d4d7dd2b775eefb9a47f4c2442825)
I'm sorry to cause any offence or scandal, friend.
I just have many doubts about the mass shootings, because many of them are most certainly doubtful -- like the Sandy Hook shooting or the shooting at that high school back in February, where you have credible evidence of crisis actors and many conflicting and unresolved stories.
Because they happen rather like clockwork (this is the impression I have, because I assume many of these are CIA operations), I tend to believe many of the casualties in many of these shootings are not actual casualties.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: roscoe on November 17, 2018, 12:54:10 AM
Las Vegas is Hoax.. :sleep:
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 17, 2018, 02:17:21 AM
Quote from: Markus on November 16, 2018, 11:07:58 PM
I'm sorry to cause any offence or scandal, friend.
I just have many doubts about the mass shootings, because many of them are most certainly doubtful -- like the Sandy Hook shooting or the shooting at that high school back in February, where you have credible evidence of crisis actors and many conflicting and unresolved stories.
Because they happen rather like clockwork (this is the impression I have, because I assume many of these are CIA operations), I tend to believe many of the casualties in many of these shootings are not actual casualties.

What do you think?
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I think you ought to be more conscious of the tremendous damage you can do for the reputation of Catholics when you are indiscreet like this.
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They'd be justified in thinking that traditional Catholics are a bunch of kooks --- not worth the time of day.
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Stop and think how a Sheriff deputy or police officer or one of their family  members would feel if you were to tell them you think this was a hoax.
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Thousands of law enforcement, firemen and military in uniform showed up for the memorial service yesterday.
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There wasn't room for them indoors or outdoors. The streets were jammed with cars.
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(https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fs7d2.scene7.com%2Fis%2Fimage%2FTWCNews%2Fron_helus_funeralpng&sp=541b1efe93b95b44512ea256eb792c8e)
Even freeway overpasses were crowded as the motorcade went under bridges.
(https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.i-scmp.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2F980x551%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fmethode%2F2018%2F11%2F09%2Ff73977f6-e3ab-11e8-9876-950c8650801f_1280x720_075535.jpg%3Fitok%3D6tgFYl5w&sp=1a60264c65a08f77e931ed15db7fec25)
(https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcTjz0B_asYoEBX_ObTGWa-YnjMW5u6NoHzny67CU97sfuELVEcR&sp=327e66f3db54387ddf1939a668268ea1&anticache=623011)  (https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgdb.voanews.com%2F26A39821-FBF3-4DFD-8FAE-D643B6FEFAE9_cx0_cy5_cw0_w1023_r1_s.jpg&sp=a1658cd19fbba021c2f23723772dc922)  
(https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi2.wp.com%2Fthesunbest.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F11%2Fap-18319819453623.jpg%3Fresize%3D735%252C400%26amp%3Bssl%3D1&sp=aaf6cef5f1e80ec40a6d28f81b452c8e)
(https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gannett-cdn.com%2Fpresto%2F2018%2F11%2F15%2FUSAT%2F426710a2-00ae-46d1-9050-b8a9a4e6c3f3-VPC_RON_HELUS_AND_SEA_OF_OFFICERS_DESK_THUMB.jpg%3Fquality%3D10&sp=58a8c370f007ba23687c04d01ff0db85)
(https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Farc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2FRFNCXN3XXVCTRKT6KXPRYDVEOM.jpg&sp=c7f3cf2f455c239dbab7d45a9fce00d8)
(https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FDsKJhv6U0AASmUG.jpg&sp=14c68d6c2984d904ba4367a42079bd7c)
(https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcTkea9uDeDdBWxBu2KrFKj7S81siIrGENGfcQ9ZgSoWqz_nG2A-Sw&sp=82c2bfe8ba64139f01893c883ab5dfe7&anticache=75259)
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I just hope you wouldn't dare tell any one of them to their face that you think Ron Helus wasn't real
Or that he didn't die in the Borderline shooting.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Last Tradhican on November 17, 2018, 03:09:32 AM
About 80,000 babies were killed that day by the infanticide the world now calls abortion, or even worse a woman's choice. Where is the news report on that? Not a one person went to their funeral, in fact they had no funeral, they were thrown in a dumpster or turned into vitamins.

Remember that the next time someone calls you a crazy trad for believing these shootings are arranged before hand and the emotional displays staged afterwards. Example: Lee Harvey Oswald really did shoot at the president and he really was shot by Jack Ruby, however, Oswald did not even hit the president once. Oswald was just  a dupe set up  to be "the killer". That is how it works.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: JezusDeKoning on November 17, 2018, 09:01:45 AM
Quote from: Markus on November 16, 2018, 11:07:58 PM
I'm sorry to cause any offence or scandal, friend.
I just have many doubts about the mass shootings, because many of them are most certainly doubtful -- like the Sandy Hook shooting or the shooting at that high school back in February, where you have credible evidence of crisis actors and many conflicting and unresolved stories.
Because they happen rather like clockwork (this is the impression I have, because I assume many of these are CIA operations), I tend to believe many of the casualties in many of these shootings are not actual casualties.

What do you think?
It is very plausible that these are real shootings. Very, very plausible.

You have to realize something, Markus: This country, the United States of America, is massive. The third biggest country in the world in both population and landmass, with very lax gun laws. It's very reasonable that a giant country like this would have fairly regular shootings.

If one of those Nordic nations with 4-5 million each experienced this kind of violence, then it would be cause for alarm.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 17, 2018, 06:40:39 PM
Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 17, 2018, 03:09:32 AM
About 80,000 babies were killed that day by the infanticide the world now calls abortion, or even worse a woman's choice. Where is the news report on that? Not a one person went to their funeral, in fact they had no funeral, they were thrown in a dumpster or turned into vitamins.

Remember that the next time someone calls you a crazy trad for believing these shootings are arranged before hand and the emotional displays staged afterwards. Example: Lee Harvey Oswald really did shoot at the president and he really was shot by Jack Ruby, however, Oswald did not even hit the president once. Oswald was just  a dupe set up  to be "the killer". That is how it works.
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Did you go see the movie GOSNELL when it was in theaters? It could still be in a few, somewhere. 
There's another thread on that.
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The infanticide-genocide going on nationwide and worldwide is abominable, certainly. 
It is a sin crying to heaven for vengeance, willful murder of the innocent.
And the cold-blooded murder of Ron Helus and 11 other innocent victims is in the same category.
The principle difference is the murderer at Borderline is dead, too. 
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 17, 2018, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: JezusDeKoning on November 17, 2018, 09:01:45 AM
It is very plausible that these are real shootings. Very, very plausible.

You have to realize something, Markus: This country, the United States of America, is massive. The third biggest country in the world in both population and landmass, with very lax gun laws. It's very reasonable that a giant country like this would have fairly regular shootings.

If one of those Nordic nations with 4-5 million each experienced this kind of violence, then it would be cause for alarm.
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I can assure you the family and friends of Ron Helus have absolutely no doubt this was a real shooting, and innocent people died.
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If everyone at Borderline Bar & Grill that night had been wearing a sidearm, there wouldn't have been this shooting...
Regardless of how massive the USA is.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on November 17, 2018, 07:09:14 PM
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I asked a Sheriff deputy at a local station what he thinks I should say to someone who thinks the Borderline shooting was a hoax.
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He told me I shouldn't waste my energy on such people. 
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Student of Qi on November 17, 2018, 11:30:48 PM
For those of you who take these incidents lightely, let me tell you that I lost a relative in the high school shooting in SantaFe, Texas. These shootings are very real, and the desire for gun control amongst the common people is strong due to their fear. Our current culture is a mess and leads to these consequences.

We almost had another shooting at a college in Richmond this past Monday, I even have a screenshot of the text warning the campus sent out. It was in the evening and the SWAT was deployed, thankfully nothing happened.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: JezusDeKoning on November 17, 2018, 11:44:31 PM
Quote from: Student of Qi on November 17, 2018, 11:30:48 PM
For those of you who take these incidents lightely, let me tell you that I lost a relative in the high school shooting in SantaFe, Texas. These shootings are very real, and the desire for gun control amongst the common people is strong due to their fear. Our current culture is a mess and leads to these consequences.

We almost had another shooting at a college in Richmond this past Monday, I even have a screenshot of the text warning the campus sent out. It was in the evening and the SWAT was deployed, thankfully nothing happened.
I'm so sorry. You are certainly not alone in your thoughts.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Last Tradhican on November 18, 2018, 03:06:15 AM
Quote from: Student of Qi on November 17, 2018, 11:30:48 PM
For those of you who take these incidents lightely, let me tell you that I lost a relative in the high school shooting in SantaFe, Texas. These shootings are very real, and the desire for gun control amongst the common people is strong due to their fear. Our current culture is a mess and leads to these consequences.

We almost had another shooting at a college in Richmond this past Monday, I even have a screenshot of the text warning the campus sent out. It was in the evening and the SWAT was deployed, thankfully nothing happened.
I believe what everyone is saying is that the incidents did occur, however, it is a setup and is done by more persons than the one lone crazed killer with a gun by hidden, they are embellished by fake additional injured, and demonstrations. These incidents are well planned. This is not just one crazy guy with a gun. Nothing in politics happens by chance.

Like I said : Example: Lee Harvey Oswald really did shoot at the president and he really was shot by Jack Ruby, however, Oswald did not even hit the president once. Oswald was just  a dupe set up  to be "the killer". That is how it works.
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: roscoe on November 18, 2018, 07:52:19 PM
A skeptical account of Borderline incident

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKzeSHa8_SU

:chef:
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 01, 2018, 12:01:25 PM
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Quote
There are so many shootings that are questionable re: whether it was staged, fαℓѕє fℓαg,crisis actors, people died, people didn't- that emotionally I am kind of distanced from the "tragedies", if there actually are some.. I'm afraid to buy into any of it. 
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You could say that about World War II, so maybe WWII was a hoax, then. 
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Maybe all wars are hoaxes. 
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Perhaps there have never been any wars, and they're all revisionist history nonsense. 
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: josefamenendez on December 01, 2018, 06:29:34 PM
Are you the thread clean-up crew?
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 01, 2018, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: josefamenendez on November 10, 2018, 09:15:41 AM
i don't know about anyone else but I suspect it's generally true of many people. There are so many shootings that are questionable re: whether it was staged, fαℓѕє fℓαg,crisis actors, people died, people didn't- that emotionally I am kind of distanced from the "tragedies", if there actually are some.. I'm afraid to buy into any of it.  It's hard to intellectually invest in a macabre masquerade designed to confiscate guns, but most important, to confiscate US personally, if we do not have guns. If people died at any of these shootings, I am truly sorry, but the obviously contrived nature of most of these events cast doubts on the potential "real" ones.
I suspect , like others have said, that there are some composite "events", where it's planned but people actually died, and there is much infiltration of crisis actors and complicit government authorities and police.
I don't have TV,( so I may miss a lot of this) but I never see family, except one or two token spokespeople; never see a funeral or even a procession of funeral cars. All pictures of victims seem to be recent ( no history?) and even the pictures at the shooting site seem to all look  alike- staged. I wonder where all the ambulances and helicopters are- there should be scores of them at a major shooting- there is usually one or two placed perfectly and a bunch of people at the event carrying a "victim" or two. Many pictures show the people hugging and crying- no tears. Same every time. Where are all of the lawsuits? I'm sure many family of victims would lawyer-up and sue everything and everyone they can, but we don't hear about this. At 9/11 there were thousands of lawsuits, and the families were offered a blanket payment of over a million dollars that was attached to a gag order- most took it. I guess that was an expensive mistake for the globalist  perps.
Why didn't the Sandy Hook victim families sue the school, the police dept or the township? No, they only sued the federal government over gun laws, and proceeded to tour the country for gun regulation.
I know I sound jaded, but none of this sits right -psychologically it's all off-kilter and maybe it's part of the globalist plan to desensitize us to horror as well, I don't know. All I do know is these mass shooting are here today and gone tomorrow- look at Las Vegas (where I do believe there were mass casualties)
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Are you afraid to say you still stand by what you wrote here?
Too many shootings, so you're jaded; the macabre masquerade (like war) wears you out, so you're detached now?
Maybe people died, maybe they didn't, if so, you're sorry, but the obviously contrived nature (like Pearl Harbor) casts doubts?
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How many "crisis actors" were there in WWII? Here today and gone tomorrow?
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Or are you attempting to compete with the inanity of "roscoe" who's a hoax prolly
I mean, how can anyone be THAT dense?!
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: josefamenendez on December 01, 2018, 09:19:58 PM
Yes, I am fine with what I said. Not perfect ( as you have stated) but still stand by it. By the way, there was another mass shooting, not that Friday ( I was wrong) but the following Monday. Out of the news in two days. Did you hear of it?
PS- My father was at Hickam Field during the attack on Pearl Harbor ....Roosevelt knew about that one way in advance.( One way to get us into the war....)
So be it- Have a great day!
Title: Re: Shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, CA
Post by: roscoe on December 11, 2018, 01:23:35 AM
It is coming out now that Sgt Ron Helus was killed by so called 'friendly fire'-- another CHP officer=== not the alleged shooter.. :cheers: