Author Topic: Psychics, Clairvoyant etc. (Read 2679 times)

Mama ChaCha · « **on:** March 27, 2014, 11:20:00 AM »

What is the church's teaching on people with special gifts? At least, what was it before Vatican 2?

Someone told me that the Church has always accepted that some people are made this way. But I had always been taught that clairvoyance is inherently evil and lead by demonic influences. I don't know what to make of it and it's hard to research because most catholic sites seem to either not know anything about it, think it's evil totally, or just ignore it.

Is there some pre-V2 ruling I can access on this topic?

soulguard · « **Reply #1 on:** March 27, 2014, 11:53:48 AM »

I believe it is real. Personal experience.

Mama ChaCha · « **Reply #2 on:** March 27, 2014, 12:12:17 PM »

The reason I ask is because every woman in my family has a certain sensitivity, and since I've been praying the rosary very often, it's gotten stronger. Besides one other woman in my family, they've all been lead into kooky hippie "talk to the universe" junk and it honestly scares the crap out of me.

But my husband is also sensitive and can look at a person and know what their vice is, whether or not they're a good person, and whether or not they should be avoided. And if he says they're to be avoided, they inevitably do something that shows that they should be avoided.

But I'm looking for a firm yes it's real or no it isn't real from the Church. The only authority I do not question is the Church.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #3 on:** March 27, 2014, 01:52:38 PM »

I bet the Church has always considered these fortune tellers and clairvoyants to be a form of witchcraft and fakery. It is my advice for people to steer clear of them.

If a Catholic thinks they are seeing signs, or receiving messages, they should turn the confessional and pray unceasingly.

Mama ChaCha · « **Reply #4 on:** March 27, 2014, 02:21:50 PM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

I bet the Church has always considered these fortune tellers and clairvoyants to be a form of witchcraft and fakery. It is my advice for people to steer clear of them.

If a Catholic thinks they are seeing signs, or receiving messages, they should turn the confessional and pray unceasingly.

We pray a lot. Regular confessions, everything. I just dont really know what to make of it and I've always ignored it because I think it has to be either b.s. or not of holy origin. But the fact that it's much stronger now and I can't ignore it. That's why im looking for pre Vatican 2 information. A friend of mine told me that lorraine warren is clairvoyant and under the care of a bishop so the Church must recognize it. So now im confused.

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #5 on:** March 27, 2014, 02:36:37 PM »

MamaChaCha, I'm like your husband - extremely good instincts, but it's from an enhanced awareness of body language, not a clairvoyance. Simplistically speaking, we just read people really well, really quickly. And, like your husband, and at the risk of sounding prideful (I'm only being factual), my instincta about another have never failed.

However, regarding other 'special gifts', there is a family member who has had very vivid religious visions for many years. She is very intelligent and well grounded, a baptized Catholic-then atheist-now "trad" via a novus ordo parish (thinks I'm in schism) ... she's now into all the allure of whoever the flavor of the day Mary visionary may be., no matter how we counsel her. So I've come to the conclusion that, even if her personal visions were legit, satan has used it to distract her, and he's been extremely successful. She has all the appearance of an n.o. trad, attending an fssp Mass - even professed vows in a 3rd order - but is captivated with Medjugorje and anyone who purports to speak for Mary and Jesus, and secular seers of end time prophesies.

To that end, this is extremely critical advice from Capt McQuigg:

Quote

If a Catholic thinks they are seeing signs, or receiving messages, they should turn the confessional and pray unceasingly.

andysloan · « **Reply #6 on:** March 27, 2014, 02:54:53 PM »

Deuteronomy 18:9-12

"When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God shall give thee, beware lest thou have a mind to imitate the abominations of those nations. Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard,

Nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead. For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming."

TrueCatholic · « **Reply #7 on:** March 27, 2014, 03:06:49 PM »

The True Story behind The Exorcism of Anneliese Michel / Emily Rose - Part 1 of 2 -

Michael takes the bad man away -

Nadir · « **Reply #8 on:** March 27, 2014, 04:33:47 PM »

Quote from: Mama ChaCha

What is the church's teaching on people with special gifts? At least, what was it before Vatican 2?

Someone told me that the Church has always accepted that some people are made this way. But I had always been taught that clairvoyance is inherently evil and lead by demonic influences. I don't know what to make of it and it's hard to research because most catholic sites seem to either not know anything about it, think it's evil totally, or just ignore it.

Is there some pre-V2 ruling I can access on this topic?

I do not know the Church teaching on this, but I do know that True Church teaching is the same pre-Vat2 as post-Vat2. It does not change.

It would depend on
1. what is meant by claivoyance and
2. how and for what purpose it is used.

I do believe that some people have this ability to "See Cleary" for that is what the word "Claivoyance" means literally. Some saints have known and predicted the day and even the hour of their own deaths, so it is not always used for evil purposes.

I myself once had a very vivid dream that I was saying goodbye forever to a youing priest friend of ours. About two days later he was killed in a car crash. After his death I recalled the dream which I had already related to the family.

I would not be frightened by it, Mama, as long as you and your husband keep up a strong prayer life, praying the Holy Rosary every day.

poche · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2014, 12:12:11 AM »

St John of the Cross and St Theresa of Avila warn that the Devil is very astute in making an appearance as an angel of light in order to decieve the unwary. In cases of these kinds of charisms I recommend a very good spiritual director.

Nadir · « **Reply #10 on:** March 28, 2014, 03:45:38 AM »

Quote from: Mama ChaCha

We pray a lot. Regular confessions, everything. I just dont really know what to make of it and I've always ignored it because I think it has to be either b.s. or not of holy origin. But the fact that it's much stronger now and I can't ignore it. That's why im looking for pre Vatican 2 information. A friend of mine told me that lorraine warren is clairvoyant and under the care of a bishop so the Church must recognize it. So now im confused.

I had not heard of this woman, so I did a websearch. I found an article http://www.catholicregister.org/arts/arts-news/item/16603-importance-of-faith-key-to-ridding-evil-says-conjuring-source which gives some picture of what she is up to.

It seems she is involved with actual cases of possession, which not what you started asking about at the beginning of the thread. The article says,

Quote

Under canon law -- Canon 1172 specifically -- only those priests who get permission from their bishops can perform an exorcism after proper training.

I wonder why you refer to this woman. What she is involved in doing is a far cry from what you mentioned at the start. She is seeking out these opportunities for which she is seeminly unqualified, being a lay person.

It's more than intuiting whether or not a person is good or bad. Even animals have this sense, so it must be a natural phenomenon and not necessarily evil, though of course like anything else could be used for evil purpose. Apparently it was Bishop McKenna that was involved in an exorcism which she helped introduce him to.

Anyway you should check with your priest.

BTNYC · « **Reply #11 on:** March 28, 2014, 07:38:29 AM »

Go not aside after wizards, neither ask any thing of soothsayers, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.

Leviticus xix:xxxi

My child, be not an observer of omens, since it leads the way to idolatry; neither an enchanter, nor an astrologer, nor a purifier, nor be willing to took at these things; for out of all these idolatry is engendered.

Didache, Chapter III

songbird · « **Reply #12 on:** March 28, 2014, 03:07:02 PM »

If a person takes credit for what they call "theirs" it is not of God. A magician claims he has the powers. No he does not. And those that had what they thought to be a message from God to the world, take it to a priest to come to a decision if they are truly messages from God, for at the point we are now, we have had all that we need to know how to be saved.

there is a book that speaks of how people can be hyptotized, programmed to hear voices and such. All it takes is a lure of drug or alcohol and time to do it and one does not know that it has been done to them. Stay away from people who brag or such that "they" have a gift that no one else has.

Next, the church is against all that you bring up, it is against the 1st commandment and you can see the pride that one carries when they think they can do things, read minds. What good is it?! Do these people think that they are telling us something that we do not already know for our "salvation'?

Stay away! All we need it the Powers of the Precious Blood to save our souls.

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2014, 01:33:12 AM »

good investigation Nadir!

Mama ChaCha · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2014, 10:53:11 AM »

This is getting to be bigger than it is.
I don't hear or see anything, ever. I get a "stay away and pray" feeling about people sometimes.
Recently, I get it a lot more often. Not always to stay away, but to pray for someone. Ive been waiting on a call back from my priest for some time but haven't heard back.
Because of that, I asked some more learned people and one said that it is a grace of the holy spirit to keep my soul safe from bad influences. Then someone else said it was demonic. Then I was really confused because I dont know why the enemy would want me to pray for someone, but they were adamant.
Then the first person mentioned lorraine warren as evidence that it is recognized in the Church, but that wasn't what I was talking about at all.
Whenever I can't get my priest on the line, I always ask here because everyone here has references and councils and not just what they think.

However, it seems this one is a sticky thing so I'm going to go back to how I handled it before. If I feel that I should pray for someone I will. We could all use a rosary prayed for us.