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Author Topic: Perpetual Subsistence Farming and Gardening  (Read 2910 times)

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Re: Perpetual Subsistence Farming and Gardening
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2022, 02:07:37 PM »
we have done it all.

These are my recommendations:
- forget cattle.  You need a lot of land (5 acres per cattle,  unless you want to buy hay all the time), a big truck, a cattle trailer, and it is REALLY hard to butcher them yourself and you need a BIG freezer to store all the meat (God forbid you lose power). To breed them you have to feed a bull all the time when you only need him once a year.  They provide 5 gallons of milk a DAY+-.  Way too much for most families. and they require vet assistance for castration, shots, etc  If you really want cattle for meat, go cheap.  I guarantee, unless you are really into beef, you will not taste the difference.  We have had angus, longhorn, beef master, jersey, Holstein and all kinds of crosses.  they all taste like beef...  butcher before age 3 unless you want all ground beef then butcher at any age.  Make sure you get the horns off or they will tear up your fences.  If you get a jumper, he has to go right away or he will teach the others to jump.  that's a nightmare... we never had a bull, just borrowed a neighbors.

- goats are great!  dual purpose, meat and milk.  whatever breed is best for your area.  Learn how to disbud (you do not want horns), castrate, give shots, etc on your own.  have 1 to 4 babies at a time.  can get 1 quart to 1 gallon of milk a day, depending upon the breed, which is perfect for a family.  uncut males taste terrible, so don't even try.  easy to butcher yourself, so no butcher costs. Any age is o.k. to butcher if you stew most of the meat. meat is great for stews, especially.

- forget ducks.  they are smelly and messy because they need a pond, whether a kiddie pool or a real pond.  they also have a low egg to feed ratio because they eat more and waste more feed than chickens do.  The meat is fatty and they don't provide nearly the amount of meat as a dual purpose chicken.

- chickens are great! If you get dual purpose birds (like orpington or barred rock), nipple drinkers and low-waste feeders.  Rhode Island reds were mean.  you will have to set up a light during winter months.  avoid wood chicken houses as they breed lice.  get a cheap foam incubator and hatch your replacements at least every 3 years, butchering the 4 year olds, as they start to lay less often at that age.  roosters get mean when testosterone kicks in, about age 1.5.  we butchered them by then.

- Tamworth pigs, for sure!! docile, easy keepers.  can have 5 to 15 babies at a time.  can castrate yourself (uncut males taste terrible unless you turn all the meat into heavily seasoned smoked sausage).  they eat nearly anything, even better than chickens, and don't need much room.  Ours got much bigger than average size.  Grandma got to 700 lbs, while mamma was 600 lbs.  can butcher at any age and size (smaller is easier), and the meat is always good.  Better yet, hunting pigs is legal in most states year round, usually without a license.  A neighbor of mine quite literally jumps on them and hog ties them.  however, wild males taste horrible and its hard to tell male or female when hunting them.

- we did not raise sheep, but our neighbor did.  He said the best tasting ones are blacks which don't need shearing.  He sure was right!  Bought 2 from him and they were the best lamb we have ever eaten. I don't know the breed name.  best when eaten before age 1.5.

- forget turkeys.  the stupidest animals we ever raised, got sick a lot, and ate like horses.  the eggs were good, but only got them 6 months of 12.

- forget meat rabbits unless you have no room for anything else.  We had californians and new zealands. I calculated it cost $15 in feed alone to raise a rabbit big enough to feed a family (in a stew), at about 1 year old.  And you have to keep all the breeders apart or they fight, eat each others babies, and get sick.  Hard to supplement with table scraps because you have to be careful what you feed them.  babies have to be brought inside during the cold months, taken out for feedings every 2 hours.  water lines/bottles freeze easily.  Lot of work.

- garden for sure, using all the manure from your animals.  Goat, rabbit and sheep manure can go directly on the garden.  cow and chicken must cook for 3 to 6 months or it will burn the garden.  

- orchard for sure.  learn to can.

- learn to sew and mend.

These are our experiences.  Good luck


Re: Perpetual Subsistence Farming and Gardening
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2022, 02:19:07 PM »
What a great and informative post!  Thanks Epiphaney!


Offline SolHero

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Re: Perpetual Subsistence Farming and Gardening
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2022, 02:37:38 PM »
Maybe you already keep this in mind but just as important as learning which animals to keep and what to grow in your garden, you also need to learn how protect your animals and your garden. My chickens were often attacked by cayotes and racoons and my garden is often raided by wild bunnies and squirrels. Also be mindful of the weather and find(or develop) a calendar for your area to know what to sow at various times throughout the year.

If you need heirloom and open pollinated seeds this is a good catholic company: St. Clare Heirloom seeds https://www.stclareseeds.com/garden-help/
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Re: Perpetual Subsistence Farming and Gardening
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2022, 02:49:59 PM »
From my experience off-grid for 2 years:

Heritage breeds like Barred Rocks, Rhode Islands etc for cold climates. They will be fine, the biggest thing with chickens is tending to foot injuries as this is a serious disease vector. Expect to get Neosporin (WITHOUT THE PAINKILLER THIS KILLS BIRDS) and stockpile it for birds. Get extra bandages too. Ensure you have some trees or a cool, shaded area during the summer. Do not get Cornish X, go with Freedom Rangers if you need a meat-oriented breed. I honestly think dual purpose is the way to go. Make sure you keep at least one hen that goes and stays broody (we have a mom that is broody basically half year and we eat the loss because ALL of her chicks live) and is a good mom. Having to warm water bottles for baby chicks and wrapping said water bottles so they don't kill themselves during the winter isn't fun (off grid). Just have a great mama hen.

Rabbits are tricky, I agree with Epiphany. Especially during summer your losses will escalate unless you have a cool area that is out of sunlight. They are finicky animals and are best if you have a neighbor or someone you can barter with for feed. Free ranging/tractoring them isn't as good as broilers, especially due to heat sensitivity. Rabbits require a lot of work in general, even if you have an efficient cage system. Rabbits are the most retarded mothers and breeders as well. You will have mothers eat entire batches or not feed babies properly, especially with first time moms.

If you can stomach it boil guts of almost anything you kill and feed it to chickens. Rockchuck and other invasive species are easy to trap/kill and will cut down on feed costs lol. If you're plinking then feed your birds.

As for meat... I think you have to go the canning route. I agree with Epiphany yet again that freezers going out is just too costly and risky. As far as I see it locking into canning now and getting cans and Tattler lids AND extra seals is an inflation proof investment. Canning with Tattlers is cheaper than with metal lids and is probably going to save you money over freezers long term unless you have a very large electrical system and you are rich. I really wouldn't gamble.

As for manure... This is one area where rabbits are king. Manure doesn't burn. I think with rabbits you have to have a complete system that integrates them or else they aren't worth it.

As for orchard/garden... Pick something super easy and nutritious. Kale is a staple at my house, it basically requires no assistance and using arugula as a bait crop for insects keeps the bug pressure down (I will intentionally let some arugula bolt after harvesting as these will bait bugs well) and arugula is great in sandwiches to boot. Use kale stems in potato skillets and rice dishes where a rough texture is good for contrast and the leaves for canning soups. Arugula you can just fly through, it's insane. Grow lots of it because you'll never have enough. Go for Red Russian kale in extreme hot/cold climates, it's very tolerant and the strain I've been going with is good till around 0 degrees F. Braindead easy to raise. I think with a garden you want easy to raise things that have complementary plantings that are tasty or bug pressure becomes a SERIOUS issue. If you're going to do tomatoes you need a real plan. Don't waste your time otherwise.

EDIT: It's worth noting if you are into 3d printing you can cut down on chicken food waste significantly by designing your own feeders or printing mods for existing ones. I find store bought things in general always need mods. If you're off-grid in general 3d printing is king because you can print solutions to problems without having to make expensive town trips. Selling solutions to neighbors also works, especially when paired with electronics skills as you can make gate systems, game cams, water monitoring systems, feed machines etc. Something I have stockpiled for a long-term SHTF situation is extra printing filament of different types.

Re: Perpetual Subsistence Farming and Gardening
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2022, 03:01:00 PM »
Maybe you already keep this in mind but just as important as learning which animals to keep and what to grow in your garden, you also need to learn how protect your animals and your garden. My chickens were often attacked by cayotes and racoons and my garden is often raided by wild bunnies and squirrels. Also be mindful of the weather and find(or develop) a calendar for your area to know what to sow at various times throughout the year.
absolutely true.

- Get two large guard dogs, like great Pyrenees or anatolian.  they are on the same level of the food chain as coyotes and coyotes know it due to the smell of the urine. Pyrenees are more docile and family friendly than anatolian, but Pyrenees are also fiercely protective of both their food and their family (YOU).  Get them young and raise them with your family.  never get them older than 5 or 6 months old.  Both will keep rats, mice, raccoons, skunks, and even mountain lions, away.  They never have to come in the house.  It is really important to get a country vet who understands "they're dogs".

- we dug a trench around the chicken coop and installed 1/4" x 10" steel sheet metal.  never had a coon, rat, or other predator get in our coop.

- agree on the garden...  we hated tending it.  the best way we found to garden was square-foot gardening with a removable, 2ft tall framed hardware netting "roof".  Kept all the animals out and protected the plants from hail, but couldn't grow anything taller than 2 ft and had to remove the roof each time for weeding or harvesting.  we also installed an automatic misting watering system (cheaper in the summer when the misting systems are readily available).

- keep a BB gun handy to shoot the wild rabbits.  they are delicious.  but, don't eat them during summer and fall months.  they have worms which can make you sick.  won't make the pigs sick, though.  remember, pigs will eat almost anything.