Author Topic: Mosin-Nagant (Read 38678 times)

warrenton · « **Reply #30 on:** March 08, 2012, 09:55:37 AM »

Quote from: Diego

Bottom line: define the mission of the weapon and your budget. No weapon fills all missions well. There is always something out of your price range, e.g., http://www.nightvisionplanet.com/flir-thermosight-t60-640x480-thermal-weapon-sight.html

CQB? short barreled AR platform in 6.8mm SPC ($$$ and in very short supply) or 5.56 NATO ($) with a Trijicon RMR
sniping? scoped 7.62 NATO bolt or SR25
really long range or really hardened? .338 Lapua or BIGGER!

:drillsergeant: :applause:

Excellent observations, Diego. I can't improve on any of that. Maybe I just need to "bite the bullet" and learn how to use the AR. :tinfoil:

Mulling over your comments about ARs and CQB, it occurred to me that many trads are going to be women and teens without significant training in arms. Moms, sisters, and boys are going to be at home while the men are on a barricade somewhere. For that demographic, what do you think about a 12 gauge shotgun, like a Remington 870 auto? Loaded with 00 buck, that will keep the interior of the house relatively safe, no muzzle climb issues, easy to operate, point and shoot capability, semi auto action for follow up, and the shooter can reliably blast through a door or window but need not worry about drilling through the whole house, as with the mosin rifle. Affordable - used 870s go for about $500 in my area, and the ammo is used by the potential foe - both at state and local levels. For the real cost conscious, a slight downgrade could be made to an older pump model - old Mossbergs go for around $300. Ammos is easy to stock up on now, too. Easy to reload also, if the crisis lasted that long. Also can be sawed off for easier use indoors (not legal now, of course, but if society disintegrates barrell length violations are going to be the least of people's problems).

Just thinkin out loud. :idea:

Diego · « **Reply #31 on:** March 08, 2012, 11:13:18 AM »

I am opinionated on shotguns too. [laughing]

For me, the dispositive issue is this—Buck and slugs are neutralized by body armor (that said, even rifle rounds are neutralized by ballistic plates) and do not perform well against commonly used cover (e.g., car doors and windshields). 'nuff said.

Shotgun for a woman or teen? Maybe not. Recoil is ferocious. Shotguns make the Moisin Nagant feel like a rimfire. And, as any hunter, competitor, or operator will tell you, you can miss with a shotgun.

I think there are only two missions for the shotgun:
(1) many SOFT targets massed together and
(2) hunting.
For this reason I rather like the Benelli M1* (or M2) Super 90. In 1 minute you can simply unscrew the magazine cap and swap an 18" (or 14" if you have the SBS paperwork) buck/slug barrel for a 26" (or 28") ventilated rib bird hunting barrel with screw-in choke tubes. I have never had a malfunction with a Benelli. I have had malfunctions (operator error) with pump guns like the 870. There are also lightweight Surefire forearm LED weapon lights, tactical bolt handles, extended bolt release pads, and tactical slings that are a "must have" for any serious work. You can find a good used Benelli M1 for $800, but will double that by accessorizing it appropriately.

*The M1, the older (and now cheaper) model comes with an extended magazine holding two more rounds than the M2. The pistol grip stock on either the M1 or M2 considerably mitigates the perceived recoil.

All opinion, of course.

Diego · « **Reply #32 on:** March 09, 2012, 09:29:48 AM »

Counterpoint for Moisin Nagant—food for thought:

warrenton · « **Reply #33 on:** March 09, 2012, 10:54:05 AM »

That's some ordinance, Diego.

:roll-laugh2:

Diego · « **Reply #34 on:** March 09, 2012, 12:12:55 PM »

Quote from: warrenton

That's some ordinance, Diego.

:roll-laugh2:

Definitely not for bird hunting.

:dancing-banana:

Diego · « **Reply #35 on:** March 15, 2012, 05:10:24 PM »

So... have you been shopping?

s2srea · « **Reply #36 on:** March 15, 2012, 06:06:05 PM »

Not really for HD, but I recently picked up a Ruger 10/22 and a Mossberg 500. They were both in my price range, plus I plan on going quail hunting with the 500 this October in Arizona. I got the Ruger because I think they're fun, and I think I'll outfit the Mossberg with some tactical gear as I'm able to save $$.

I really want a Glock, but my friend is getting a Sig 229 that I also want to hold, and see how it feels.

Diego · « **Reply #37 on:** March 15, 2012, 07:24:23 PM »

It would be hard to go wrong with either Glock or SIG. There are pros and cons to each, but I prefer the Glock.

The rifles that SIG makes for their home market are works of art. Unfortunately the fit and finish of the recent rifles for the US market are not of the same quality. If you have a chance to compare a SIG 550 (the semi auto version of their Stg 90) with a SIG 556, you'll see what I mean.

When Bill Ruger provided technical assistance to the Clinton administration to develop the "Assault Weapon" Ban (the Ruger Mini-14 was conspicuously not banned), I promised that I would never give his company another penny.

s2srea · « **Reply #38 on:** March 15, 2012, 07:28:53 PM »

I think i read something about that on another gun forum. Then I read he died, and people wonder if they will buy them again...

Diego · « **Reply #39 on:** March 15, 2012, 07:43:09 PM »

Now that Bill Ruger passed away, the company makes an AR clone for the mass market. The NRA gave it rave reviews, but that probably has no relation to the large amount of advertising that Ruger buys from the NRA [laughing].

Diego · « **Reply #40 on:** April 11, 2012, 06:07:28 PM »

The fashion in weapon slings seems quite fickle. One day it is three-point slings, the next day it is two-point slings, and now it is one-point slings.

Who here has enough experience with all three types to offer an opinion regarding the pros and cons?

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #41 on:** April 12, 2012, 08:52:36 PM »

Quote from: Diego

The fashion in weapon slings seems quite fickle. One day it is three-point slings, the next day it is two-point slings, and now it is one-point slings.

Who here has enough experience with all three types to offer an opinion regarding the pros and cons?

.

I have all three.

Because I started with 2 and 3 point, I do not like the feel of the 1.

Does not feel secure enough or something.

Also, the only rifle I have a 1 point sling on is a PTR-91, which is very front heavy, so the old "Just push the butt down, and the muzzle will rise up" does not work for me.

Finally, I find the 1 point to be more tiring on the neck/back (i.e., because all the weight hangs down in front from these areas) than 2 or 3 point slings

Perhaps a better balanced rifle would remove the push butt/lift muzzle issue.

But I think the biggest thing is that I was used to 2 and 3 pointers, so that the 1 point just feels awkward to me.

Diego · « **Reply #42 on:** April 12, 2012, 10:13:47 PM »

Thank you. Are you simply hanging your 1-point sling around your neck or are you putting it over your dominant shoulder?

Like you, I am used to the 2- and 3-point slings. Largely because transitioning to weak side, muzzle up, muzzle down, etc. gets so complicated (some of the instructional videos are hilarious), I have been giving some thought to the Magpul MS3 for a couple of lighter long arms.

Marcelino · « **Reply #43 on:** April 13, 2012, 12:22:43 AM »

I didn't read the whole thread, but I wanted to. Anyway, I've shot the gun and my experience is it is a piece of Russian Crap! It kicks like a mule and it is easier to hit a targe with my 45 pistol, than it is with this rifle. If you know much about guns, that should tell you something. Of course, I think Ak 47s are crap too. If you want a cheap rifle, get a 30-06 or 308, with a plastic stock, from someplace cheap on the internet and find a dealer that will do the FFL for you for 20 bucks (usually the website will help). Then, you'll be able to hit stuff with your rifle, that you only dream about hitting with your pistol. Sure, you'll pay double for a new one, but you're getting a rifle that actually isn't a piece of crap :applause:

One other thing, if you reload ammo, buy used brass and cast your own bullets, you can make rounds for less than 10 cents a piece. It would be a lot easier to do that with a 308 or 30-06, than with a Mosin (the crappy Russian/Eastern European ammo is much harder to reload and as such, is basically not worth it). If you're trying to save money, in the long run, I think that's your best bet.

Marcelino · « **Reply #44 on:** April 13, 2012, 12:30:25 AM »

But hey, The Mosin is a piece of "history" Well, if you want a "piece of history," go to garage sales (they're code for my parent's died and I don't want to put all their stuff on the tree lawn). Once you've "saved" enough money buying second hand stuff, then maybe you'll be able to afford a rifle that wasn't built in the world's worst factories.