Your ammo ran about 17 cents a round.  That's one fifth the price of .45 cal ACP ammo, and less than half the price of cheap m-16 ammo and even cheaper than cheap ak-47 ammo as advertised on Cheaper than Dirt.  That's a great price for ammo.

It's not bad, but it costs as much as the guns, that's my point.

BTW, .45 ACP doesn't cost $50 a box.  Try $15.  

Are you thinking of .45 colt?

But if its Soviet bloc surplus, you must clean the rifle promptly after use.  

Yes, and the way to do it is with boiling water, not ammonia.  

Quote from: warrenton

Your ammo ran about 17 cents a round.  That's one fifth the price of .45 cal ACP ammo, and less than half the price of cheap m-16 ammo and even cheaper than cheap ak-47 ammo as advertised on Cheaper than Dirt.  That's a great price for ammo.

It's not bad, but it costs as much as the guns, that's my point.

BTW, .45 ACP doesn't cost $50 a box.  Try $15.  

Are you thinking of .45 colt?

Quote

But if its Soviet bloc surplus, you must clean the rifle promptly after use.  

Yes, and the way to do it is with boiling water, not ammonia.  

YOu're right - I'm thinking of .45 Colt.  My bad.  I pay about $20 to $30 for .45 Colt at the local gun store.  So, between a buck and a buck and a half per round.  It's gone way up in the past year, higher than most other ammo, for some reason.  Wonder why?

I read that it is the primer residue that causes rust.  I just make a point of cleaning the mosin promptly after using it.   I use commercial cleaner, like Hoppe's.  

Cheers!  

...Since the Soviets designed the cartridge for combat in Stalin era concrete cities...

While it survived into and past the Soviet era, the 7.62x54R is actually a 19th century holdover from the Czarist Army.  It is the 7.62x39 that was designed during Stalin's reign.

Mandatory reading for anyone considering purchase of a Moisin Nagant: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

The Moisin Nagant has a wooden stock and does not have a free-floated barrel. How one performs the appropriate water cleansing after using corrosive ammo without changing the point of aim is beyond me.

It has an AWFUL trigger.

I got that book by Lapin about the mosin - and was astonished to learn that the trigger pull was actually designed to be terrible!  

The Russians had a theory about "natural shooting" back in the Czarist days, like you said.  Apparently, they wanted the troops to acquire the target and pull off the shot quickly and smoothly - they did not want the troops to lead the target, gradually take the slack out of the trigger pull, and touch the shot off when the target moved into the sight picture zone.  Weird.

I guess that in practice, anyone using a mosin in anger or for hunting will be at least semi rested.  The trigger pull in that case will not be too much of an obstacle, especially if the shooter has practiced and is prepared for the blast and kick of the rifle.  

But it's true, the first time I pulled the trigger of a mosin I was wondering, "When is this thing going to fire?" It seemed like I was pulling back forever!  

Quote from: Diego

The Moisin Nagant has a wooden stock and does not have a free-floated barrel. How one performs the appropriate water cleansing after using corrosive ammo without changing the point of aim is beyond me.

First of all, you don't wet the outside of the barrel.  Only the inside of the barrel.  With hot boiling water, maybe some soap.

The stock can be removed.

The correct way to clean up after corrosive ammo is with water.  Not hoppes.

I wasn't expecting to give it a bath, but, especially in view of its ungainly proportions, I just can't imagine doing a thorough barrel cleaning without getting the stock wet.  Do you have a vise or some special technique that keeps the stock perfectly dry?

I ask because I have never been a black powder or corrosive ammo shooter, so have no water cleaning of rifles experience.

Thank you. It does seem a technique that requires a vise or three hands.  It makes me even happier about non-corrosive ammo.  With non-corrosive ammo, one may be a bit of a reprobate and not clean one's rifles after every outing.

I would offer this for consideration—there is a certain utility in owning weapons of the same type and cartridge as the weapons of the occupying forces. Resupply is less an issue.

I mean no disrespect when I offer some alternative views. After all, shooters are as opinionated as Trads and Trad shooters even more so, eh?

It is difficult to fault the AK systems per se, but it is not the system or cartridge of the occupying power, so will be, in the event (a near certainty) of "trouble," resupply will be a problem. You will depend on what you have or can barter from others who probably would prefer to keep what they have.  The AK systems have been overly faulted for poor accuracy, but that is a reflection of poor ammo quality and iron sights. Quality ammo ($$) and quality optics ($$) find the AK approaching, but not exceeding, the accuracy of the AR/M16 platform.  That said, gas systems (most, but not all, AR/M16s)  will generally outperform piston (AK) systems. Of course, bolt systems will outperform any semi-/full system, but followup shots may mean survival. Semi-/full systems overtake bolt guns in that respect.

Another point, on SOFT targets out to 100-150 meters (depending on barrel length) the terminal ballistics of the 5.56 NATO ball equal the 7.62 NATO ball and exceeds 7.62x39 ball. As 5.56 NATO velocities drop to subsonic levels (dropping sooner, of course, in short barreled rifles; losing ~50fps per inch of barrel shortening), terminal projectile fragmentation is lost, yaw and tumble persist, and the 7.62 NATO then far exceeds in terminal performance against SOFT and HARD targets beyond 100-150 meters. One may purchase expensive soft points and TAP ammo and the like and quibble over those results, but most folks are stocking up on milspec ball.  On HARDENED targets (cover, armor, vehicles), 7.62 NATO outperforms 7.62x39 which,  in turn, outperforms 5.56 NATO.  You can always up the ante with .50BMG and 20mm Lahti and a GAU-8. :-)

Bottom line: define the mission of the weapon and your budget. No weapon fills all missions well. There is always something out of your price range, e.g., http://www.nightvisionplanet.com/flir-thermosight-t60-640x480-thermal-weapon-sight.html

CQB? short barreled AR platform in 6.8mm SPC ($$$ and in very short supply) or 5.56 NATO ($) with a Trijicon RMR
sniping? scoped 7.62 NATO bolt or SR25
really long range or really hardened? .338 Lapua or BIGGER!

Reloading?  Primers! Primers do not store as well as lacquered or other milspec rounds. I can't fault anyone who wants to reload, but I found the cost savings negligible compared to surplus milspec. I remember spending 2 weeks of evenings in the early 90's when I was a competitor to load a couple thousand rounds of 5.56 NATO—saved all of $30-$40 over http://www.ammoman.com. I gave away all my reloading equipment and have never regretted that. Personal choice.

A very well-qualified friend (at least he was a friend until his daughter converted and married into the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan at which point he suddenly decided I was a you-know-what) had occasion to examine the metallurgy of the Peshawar gunsmiths during the Soviet-Afghan mess. The image of homemade guns is romantic (and drives Schumer wild), but is a sad joke. You do not want to stake your life or the life of loved ones on that kind of scenario.  Better you should pray the Rosary... always!