Author Topic: Lets do something then (Read 8031 times)

Raoul76 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 24, 2011, 03:03:37 PM »

Yeah, Samurai, I have heard this Texan boast before. The problem is there are millions upon millions that think the same way, that they're all masters of survival. They'll probably be thinking that while they're killing and eating each other. It's God that will get you through, no matter what skill sets you have. And He chooses who He wants to protect, we have no say in the matter, though it doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can to prepare.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 24, 2011, 03:08:17 PM »

I think the Amish appeal to an inchoate Protestant attitude in many American Catholics, with the overdone dress code, too much attention paid to externals.

The Catholic Church tells us to be in the world and not of it. I think Pius XII said something about how Catholics shouldn't adopt the worst fashions of their time, but they shouldn't dress in a way that makes them look ridiculous and antiquated either.

St. Augustine said something similar about the increase of knowledge. He rebuked Catholics who resisted all scientific progress and knowledge. The danger there, of course, just as with people dressing as if they're living in the 18th century, is that the Church ends up looking reactionary and antique and dead, which is not what God wants. That is not an incentive to the conversion of others, to see Catholics with some overdone, absurd dress code that makes them look like circus freaks. St. Philip Neri in his time, the 17th century, was said to dress quite well, not necessarily as a fop, but not in sackcloth and ashes either, because he knew that in order to get people to listen to him, he had to blend in a bit.

Kailyn · « **Reply #42 on:** February 24, 2011, 04:18:46 PM »

Catholic Samurai - it is what you think it is. =) And they're ready to breed by 9 months, gestate for a month, and have huge litters.

One more try...

On the question of the Amish, I'm inclined to agree with Raoul.

Jehanne · « **Reply #43 on:** February 25, 2011, 05:54:56 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

I think the Amish appeal to an inchoate Protestant attitude in many American Catholics, with the overdone dress code, too much attention paid to externals.

The Catholic Church tells us to be in the world and not of it. I think Pius XII said something about how Catholics shouldn't adopt the worst fashions of their time, but they shouldn't dress in a way that makes them look ridiculous and antiquated either.

St. Augustine said something similar about the increase of knowledge. He rebuked Catholics who resisted all scientific progress and knowledge. The danger there, of course, just as with people dressing as if they're living in the 18th century, is that the Church ends up looking reactionary and antique and dead, which is not what God wants. That is not an incentive to the conversion of others, to see Catholics with some overdone, absurd dress code that makes them look like circus freaks. St. Philip Neri in his time, the 17th century, was said to dress quite well, not necessarily as a fop, but not in sackcloth and ashes either, because he knew that in order to get people to listen to him, he had to blend in a bit.

If we're back to the "Should women wear pants," you'll need to start a new thread about that! "Blending in" can mean all sorts of things to all sorts of people. It's something that I would expect to hear from Father Richard McBrien.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 25, 2011, 09:35:54 PM »

One of the most devout Catholics I know wears pants sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. I confess, it fails to shock my delicate sensibilities.

There is utopianism and then there is Catholicism. The two are not always as similar as they appear to us. For instance, I'm against the idea of women being doctors and lawyers, in general, of women in the workplace doing jobs that should be done by men. Not only is it inappropriate, but it has flooded the marketplace and is in part responsible for this employment crisis, since you have people of both sexes searching for work and not just the male bread-winners.

Does this mean I won't use a female doctor or lawyer, or that I'll look down my nose at her as some lesser being? Of course not. That's just the way things are right now.

If you remember me during that whole NFP phase, you know that I'm not just some loose, casual guy. I went through my own utopian phase. But the real Catholic faith does have a certain degree of leeway. I think it's about accepting imperfections, accepting we're in a fallen world.

When it comes to Fifties-ism, the American SSPX really suffers from this excessive concern with dress code. I can think of other things they should be more concerned about.

This is not an SSPX problem, however -- it's an American problem. The French SSPX and French sedes are different. I've seen French SSPX Masses where the people are dressed like slobs. The whole dress-code thing taken to these extremes is, in my opinion, a Puritanical holdover that has crept into the Church. To me there is an element of pride here, and dressing in a way to show off your modesty in an exaggerated way is pride. It seems we Americans always have to set ourselves apart somehow, we have to do something different to feel like we're better than others ( I'm generalizing, of course ). But I believe this is also the source of home-aloneism, Feeneyism, anti-Thuc-ism, etc.

If you are reading this with a jaundiced eye, and want to misrepresent my point, you can retort by saying "Why not wear a bikini to Mass?" But I think it's clear what I'm talking about -- dress is a matter of common sense, it's clear to anyone that wants to know what is appropriate and what is not. If a woman comes into CMRI wearing pants, you can feel people thinking "Hm, this isn't ideal, but it won't kill anyone." When someone walks in wearing some sexy outfit, you can feel everyone bristle. It's obvious when a woman is taking steps to draw attention to her bod, there's no hiding it in that world.