Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Extreme Short Range Shooting  (Read 521 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mark 79

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 9540
  • Reputation: +6255/-940
  • Gender: Male
Extreme Short Range Shooting
« on: December 06, 2019, 01:04:57 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Logged

    Offline Bonaventure

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1238
    • Reputation: +789/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #1 on: December 06, 2019, 03:07:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I have no experience with any of these calibers. I've been told, though, that they're all "too small."  I happen to disagree.  I've been looking for a handgun my wife can use; one she could potentially carry in a purse (I just don't see her carrying concealed on her person).  For that reason, striker-fired pistols such as Glocks aren't all that attractive if carrying Condition 1, unless of course the pistol is placed inside a proper holster where the trigger is properly protected.  Would these pistols carry the same concerns?  I noticed that they are Double-Action, but not sure where the safety (if any) is located.
    Logged

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 9540
    • Reputation: +6255/-940
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #2 on: December 06, 2019, 03:32:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • The Seecamps have a magazine safety, hence unloading requires (1) racking each round out of the pistol or (2) releasing the magazine, thumbing out all the rounds from the mag, reinserting the empty mag, then racking out the chambered round. The NAA Guardians are almost clones of the Seecamp design, but do not have a magazine safety. The NAA Guardians are bit larger, especially the .380ACP/9mm Kurz, so I live with the Seecamp mag safety.

    They have a long ~12 pound trigger pull. Like you I would never carry any Glock in a pocket (or waistband) without a suitable (too bulky for my tastes) pocket (or waistband) holster, but I have no qualms—zero, nada, enginn, なし, เปล่า—about carrying a Seecamp bare in a pocket. They are so small that they just don't "print."

    I never thought I'd carry anything less than a .40S&W, but in the summer even a Glock 43 9mm single-stack requires dressing for the gun. That is never the case with the Seecamps.

    My concern for your wife would be the hand strength necessary for the trigger pull. Also, much of our grip strength is in the 4th and 5th fingers and the Seecamp is small enough that the 4th and 5th fingers have no grip on the pistol, hence she may also have problems controlling the .380 version. You might consider the .32ACP version. All the Seecamps are designed for hollow-point ammunition reliability. FMJs and +P are not recommended

    These are hard to find in your LGS, but there are plenty available on gunbroker.com.
    Logged

    Offline Bonaventure

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1238
    • Reputation: +789/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #3 on: December 06, 2019, 04:18:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • On the subject of "too small" calibers, buddy of mine picked up a new Ruger Mark IV in .22LR.  He's also had a suppressor sitting in jail the last six months, but that too is now free as he was finally given his tax stamp.  He brought it over last week, and while I've never felt much desire to jump through all the hoops necessary to obtain a suppressor, after shooting it, my mind may have changed. 

    :cowboy:
    Logged

    Offline Kazimierz

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7387
    • Reputation: +3487/-87
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #4 on: December 06, 2019, 07:19:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Never an option, suppressors here. I am waiting to try the CB caps I filed the noses flat. Should make a satisfying quiet thump out of Henry lever action.
    Logged
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15064
    • Reputation: +9980/-3161
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #5 on: December 06, 2019, 09:58:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Tune in at 50 seconds (but also watch the whole clip):

    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 9540
    • Reputation: +6255/-940
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #6 on: December 06, 2019, 10:17:30 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • I'll see your Rambo and raise you a White and Nerdy.

    Logged

    Offline Kazimierz

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7387
    • Reputation: +3487/-87
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #7 on: December 07, 2019, 12:16:16 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Confiteor me also fan of Weird Al
    Doubleplusgood!!!!

    As I am in hospital, Like a Surgeon comes to mind.
    Logged
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4382
    • Reputation: +1628/-194
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #8 on: December 07, 2019, 04:28:06 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Bonaventure on December 06, 2019, 04:18:01 PM
    On the subject of "too small" calibers, buddy of mine picked up a new Ruger Mark IV in .22LR.  He's also had a suppressor sitting in jail the last six months, but that too is now free as he was finally given his tax stamp.  He brought it over last week, and while I've never felt much desire to jump through all the hoops necessary to obtain a suppressor, after shooting it, my mind may have changed.  

    :cowboy:
    How loud is it with a suppressor?  I've never shot a Mark IV but wouldn't mind giving it a try.  My range might have one for rent --- I will rent one occasionally when I'm out on the town and feel like a little range fun "on the spur of the moment" when I am not carrying.


    These little Seebold guns look very nice but are WAY out my price range.  Right now I have a Phoenix Arms 25 ACP that is calling my name, I could get it for just a little over $100, might be a Christmas stocking stuffer "from me to me", I know Phoenix Arms is the low-rent district, I just wouldn't mind having a little "fun gun" for next to nothing.  And yes, I've heard the admonition about owning a 25 ACP, "don't ever buy one, but if you do, don't ever buy ammo for it, because if you do, you might actually load it, and if you load it, you might shoot it..." ... no pretensions to it being anything more than what it is.  Sometimes you want Ruth's Chris, and sometimes you just want McDonald's.
    Logged

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4382
    • Reputation: +1628/-194
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #9 on: December 07, 2019, 04:28:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • deleted (computer is superior to user)
    Logged

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4382
    • Reputation: +1628/-194
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #10 on: December 07, 2019, 04:29:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • deleted
    Logged

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4382
    • Reputation: +1628/-194
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #11 on: December 07, 2019, 04:31:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I'm an idiot.  I will NEVER figure out how to use this interface.  I was trying to insert a paragraph break where, for some reason, it will never allow me to, it just runs everything into one big paragraph.  Sorry for the triplication.
    Logged

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4187
    • Reputation: +2431/-557
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #12 on: December 07, 2019, 04:42:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SimpleMan on December 07, 2019, 04:31:05 PM
    I'm an idiot.  I will NEVER figure out how to use this interface.  I was trying to insert a paragraph break where, for some reason, it will never allow me to, it just runs everything into one big paragraph.  Sorry for the triplication.
    Don’t feel bad, I get frustrated too. I really wish we could go back to the days when we didn’t use cell phones or computers.
    Logged
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 9540
    • Reputation: +6255/-940
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #13 on: December 07, 2019, 05:48:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SimpleMan on December 07, 2019, 04:28:06 PM
    How loud is it with a suppressor?…
    Like the answer to so many things, "It depends."

    There are military standards for testing that test the sound pressure 1 meter lateral to the muzzle. This is not a great measure to evaluate the potential for hearing damage to the shooter, so some companies report "at the shooter's ear."

    Then, of course, the sound pressure is going to vary with atmospheric pressure that, in turn, depends on altitude, humidity, temperature, and local barometric station pressure.

    Finally, what ammo is tested? Supersonic? Subsonic? Manufacturer (different powder burn rates), barrel length, brand/model of suppressor, etc.?

    Think about "hearing safe": https://www.noisehelp.com/noise-dose.html

    A typical .22LR rimfire pistol shooting "subsonic" (the speed of sound varies with atmospheric pressure) ammunition with just about any decent brand of suppressor will be <124db. A rimfire rifle, suppressed, using "subsonic" ammo, typically <120dB.
    Subjectively, to my ears, about the same as an air rifle unsuppressed. My caveat: I wear hearing protection (muffs and plugs) unless I am confident I am receiving <124dB at my ears.

    Here's one manufacturer's test data (they manufacture the Sparrow): https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/22-suppressor-test-results It is typical (and annoying) that they didn't describe their testing methodology and atmospherics at the time of testing.

    I have attached one of the original .300BLK papers that, though the testing procedures are not described, but presumed to be the military standard, includes some sound centerfire pressure comparisons on page 25.
    Logged

    Offline Bonaventure

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1238
    • Reputation: +789/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Extreme Short Range Shooting
    « Reply #14 on: December 08, 2019, 08:29:16 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SimpleMan on December 07, 2019, 04:28:06 PM
    How loud is it with a suppressor? 

    This was the first time I shot a suppressed handgun, and only the second time I've been around one during live fire (the instructor allowed my wife to shoot a suppressed 9mm during qualification for her conceal/carry).  As for its 'loudness', it's not the sound you always hear in the movies.  There is a noticeable 'snap', which I believe comes mostly from the quick cycling of the action.  But it definitely is not loud enough that one would need EarPro. 

    BTW, it's my understanding that regardless the ammo, all .22LR fired from a handgun is sub-sonic as there isn't enough barrel length to achieve supersonic velocity.  We even tried some CCI Mini-Mags with no appreciable increase in volume.    
    Logged
    Pages: [1] 2
    « previous next »