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Traditional Catholic Faith => The Catholic Bunker => Topic started by: Frank on June 24, 2021, 02:39:21 PM

Title: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Frank on June 24, 2021, 02:39:21 PM
Discuss and provide evidence if you have any please.
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Matto on June 24, 2021, 02:57:26 PM
Maybe dragons were dinosaurs? What did St. George kill?
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Emile on June 24, 2021, 03:17:31 PM
St. John of Damascus on Dragons
Saturday, December 31, 2011 by Isaac (https://classicalchristianity.com/author/icrabtree/)
(https://classicalchristianity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/dragon_kholkikos-300x281.png) (https://classicalchristianity.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/dragon_kholkikos.png)

For we trust the teaching of Moses, and, more exactly, the Holy Spirit, having spoken through [the prophet]. This [teaching] reads: And God brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them; and whatsoever [Adam] called every living creature, that was the name thereof (cf. Gen. 2:19). Hence, a dragon was one of the animals. I am not telling you, after all, that there are no dragons; dragons exist but they are serpents borne of other serpents. Being just born and young, they are small; but when they grow up and get mature, they become big and fat so that exceed the other serpents in length and size. It is said they grow up more than thirty cubits; as for their thickness, they get as thick as a big log. Dio the Roman (A.D. 155 – 236) who wrote the history of Roman empire and republic, reports the following: one day, when Regulus, a Roman consul, was fighting against Carthage, a dragon suddenly crept up and settled behind the wall of the Roman army. The Romans killed it by order of Regulus, excoriated it and sent the hide to the Roman senate. When the dragon’s hide, as Dio says, was measured up by order of the senate, it happened to be, amazing, one hundred and twenty feet long, and the thickness was fitting to the length.”
“There is one more kind of dragon; those have wide head, goldish eyes and horny protuberances on the back of the head. They also have a beard [protruding] out of the throat; this kind of dragons is called “agaphodemons” and it is said they have no faces. This dragon is a sort of beasts, like the rest of the animals, for it has a beard, like a goat, and horn at the back of its head. Its eyes are big and goldish. These dragons can be both big and small. All serpent kinds are poisonous, except dragons, for they do not emit poison.”
– St. John of Damascus, On Dragons (unavailable in English, but excerpted in an English article here (http://creationism.org/crimea/engl/al1.htm))
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Ladislaus on June 24, 2021, 03:18:20 PM
Well, even today, Komodo dragons (and some other types of lizards) can spit acid about 20 feet.  Acid burns things, so maybe that's what they had in mind with regard to "breathing fire".  Then, before the flood, there were much larger lizards, some of which were likely called dragons.

bσɱbardier beetles actually squirt a couple different chemicals into a reaction chamber from which there's a reaction and they puff out this boiling acid.

So who knows?  God could of course easily design such a create.

So based on the Komodo dragon which can spit acid, I voted yet ... with the stipulation that what was meant by "breathing fire" is actually a reference to spitting acid (before the nature of acid was known from a chemical perspective).
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: DigitalLogos on June 24, 2021, 04:35:08 PM
Maybe. There's fossils of gigantic reptiles found all over from before the Deluge, so there's a sure precedent for Dragons of some form. As for breathing fire, I have no idea. Recall that in antiquity it was believed that Salamanders were born from fire, only later for it to be found that they inhabited some of the logs that were used to build fires.
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Miseremini on June 24, 2021, 05:07:26 PM
What about the dragons in the Lives of the Desert Fathers that terrorized villages?
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: songbird on June 24, 2021, 05:20:01 PM
Demons who can make themselves into any thing, animal.
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: trad123 on June 24, 2021, 08:53:15 PM
I rented this on YouTube back in 2017, but it's no longer offered for rental:


Dragons or Dinosaurs? Trailer



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRyBDqB9z-M





https://dove.org/review/11192-dragons-or-dinosaurs-creation-or-evolution/



Quote
Synopsis
Dragon images, legends and lore exist all over the world in many different cultures. But what if dragons were actually dinosaurs? These two films look at the possibilities.


Dove Review
“Dragons or Dinosaurs?” and “Creation or Evolution?” are inspiring and informative films. They explore the many proofs that dinosaurs actually lived during the time of man, and that creationism is more plausible than evolution.

Several experts are featured in the films, including Dr. John Morris, the president of the Institute for Creation Research. Dr. Morris says, “people want to know about dragons” and draws a parallel between depictions of dragons and certain species of dinosaurs. Darek Isaacs, author of “Extinction of Evolution, Dragons or Dinosaurs?” speaks of the many dinosaur legends.

The docuмentaries looks at drawings, paintings, and sculptures. The evidence shown includes many fossils, including the 30 foot wing span of a winged serpent. Also included in the films is an excerpt from the Jєωιѕн historian Josephus, where he describes dinosaur-like creatures.

We are pleased to award these docuмentaries our Dove “Faith-Friendly” Seal for ages 12+. Enjoy these educational and aesthetically pleasing DVDs.

Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Emile on June 24, 2021, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: trad123 on June 24, 2021, 08:53:15 PM
I rented this on YouTube back in 2017, but it's no longer offered for rental:


Dragons or Dinosaurs? Trailer
I think this is it:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/fp6vE54NMSvM/
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: SeanJohnson on June 24, 2021, 10:40:30 PM
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Matthew on June 25, 2021, 04:11:04 AM
I recommend reading over the search results for "Dragon" on DRBO.

http://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=dragon&b=drb&t=0

It's interesting that Daniel used pitch, fat, and hair to cause one dragon to "burst asunder".
Pitch is basically tar.

As for fire breathing, all it would require is for the creature to generate some kind of flammable liquid, and add a spark to set it off.
And the creature would probably want to make a "cloud" out of that vapor, rather than pure liquid -- which would mean less liquid would be necessary to get the effect. Think of what you can do with a mouthful of water, if you spray it out of your mouth. Take a picture of that -- it's quite a cloud.

IN FACT -- some men do this with flammable liquids and light it on fire! Ever seen fire-breathers?

It sounds crazy to talk about creatures spitting gasoline, etc. but we have creatures today that spit ACID. How do they make ACID and it doesn't hurt them?
Don't know, I didn't design or create them, but there they are!

Other than that, I don't know. All I know is that dragons are mentioned MANY times in Scripture, and ancient cultures (the most ancient, ƈhıną) mention them as a real creature. Remember the Chinese Zodiac (year of the dog, pig, monkey, DRAGON, etc.) None of the animals out of the 12 are mythical. But they include dragon among them. Interesting.

Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: FlosCarmeli13 on June 25, 2021, 02:15:03 PM
What about the ''Dragon Man''???

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-57432104
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Yeti on June 25, 2021, 07:05:10 PM
No, they have not ever existed.
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The word "dragon" is mentioned a good number of times in the Bible, but as far as I know they are never described in Scripture as breathing fire.
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The story of St. George is a myth. If you are curious about the background of that, the original Butler's Lives has a good history of where that strange idea came from. It's a little complicated and I forget the details. (No, I am not recommending the modernist version; the old, real version of Butler's Lives debunks the story of the dragon). Look up the entry for April 23.
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I suspect some of the ancient accounts of large reptiles are a faint memory of dinosaurs, but animals in general don't breathe fire (and acid is not fire, nor does it look like it), so I see no reason to think any reptiles would either.
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Matto on June 25, 2021, 07:12:55 PM
Quote from: Yeti on June 25, 2021, 07:05:10 PM
 The story of St. George is a myth. 
How tall was Saint Christopher?
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: songbird on June 25, 2021, 09:00:51 PM
Christopher.  Was it 11 cubics?   18" for every cubic.  That is tall,  and that is why he was a ferry  man.
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Yeti on June 25, 2021, 11:27:55 PM
Quote from: Matto on June 25, 2021, 07:12:55 PM
How tall was Saint Christopher?
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I don't know.
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I should clarify that St. George himself is certainly not a myth. He was real enough. It's just the story about him slaying a dragon that is a myth. But I refer you again to Butler's Lives, April 23.
Title: Re: Did fire breathing dragons ever exist?
Post by: Frank on June 27, 2021, 06:59:18 AM
St Columba had an encounter with Loch Ness:

https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/h214_Loch.htm (https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/h214_Loch.htm)