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Offline MyrnaM

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Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2021, 09:42:02 PM »
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    • Thank you so much for your concern.  One of my daughters moved in with me last Summer, she lives upstairs and I moved in my basement apartment, which works out well.
    I am still independent yet not alone.

    She knows (my daughter) that I post here, in fact, one of her married daughters, married into an SSPX family, in Post Falls.
    I could ask her to leave a message for Matthew.  

    I feel that "RomanCatholic1953" will be back soon, probably on vacation.  He will be happy he was missed so much, it is always nice to be appreciated.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #16 on: July 29, 2021, 04:33:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on July 28, 2021, 11:06:36 AM
    I too agree I appreciate the way this forum runs.  

    The sad part is, seeing people come and go sometimes, but that is the way it is on the internet.
    I also come and go!  You may or may not realize it, but I feel my time here on earth is almost over, not quite yet, I know I still have a few years left.

    God is not finished with me yet, sometimes my insights are growing very vivid and I don't know why!

    I love life and have had a very good life.  My non-Catholic husband back in the '80s would sit and listen to me complain as I was led into the Novus ordo.  I would go to church and he would sit and read the paper.  One day when I came home from a NO mass, he handed me a clipping he tore out of the paper. It was about a priest who was coming to our area to explain why the changes in the Catholic church.  
    Things like this don't happen to me, never, but I had this strange force come over me, pushing me strongly to go to the lecture.

    It was about the great apostasy and sedevacantism. I knew instantly it was true.  For one thing, in Catholic school back in the late '40s early 50's the old, elderly nuns teaching there in Chicago, were already warning us, that we are the generation that would see the Mass taken away from us.

    Sorry, I didn't know I would be writing a book about my story! However, I must end by telling you my husband died but before he died he was baptized and died united to the Church Christ founded.  He even had the apostolic blessing hours before his death and prayed the name of Jesus at the proper time during that blessing. I believe he was given this great grace because he brought me back to the church resulting in both my parents dying united to His Faith, plus my children are also Traditionalists.  "By their fruits, you will know them."


    Perhaps Matthew might start a thread where we could all go and write our journey to Tradition.  Did I say thank you, Matthew!   ♫    
    What a great story!
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #17 on: July 29, 2021, 09:37:36 AM »
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    • Thank you, but let's get this thread back on track.

    Mathew know that without this thread it would be difficult to realize that we are not alone.

    You have united us in more ways than you realize. The good, bad and ugly sometimes pop up, but isn't that the way of life?

    The only point of disunity is we can't all agree on is the solution, perhaps that is because only God has the solution and He is keeping it a secret from us.  He wants us to have FAITH IN ONLY HIM.  You nor anyone can know and we should not be so Pride as to believe we know.  We should pray for each other, when we face God, His question to us will NOT be, "Did you believe Francis and his predecessors were true popes?"  He will ask us instead;  "How did you Keep the Faith?" 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #18 on: July 29, 2021, 10:05:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on July 28, 2021, 02:17:39 AM
    Sean, I really hate to disagree with you, but your level of aversion to Sedevacantists puts you at odds with +Williamson and probably +Lefebvre as well. You seem to lack these prelates' charity, compassion, and mercy towards the lost sheep (Catholics) who are trying their best to survive in this time of unprecedented crisis and confusion (i.e., a level never before seen in the Church, from 34 AD to the present!)


    Bishop Williamson:

    That is my position.

    You, on the other hand, seem to get bent out of shape at their very existence. They really bother you on some deep level.

    I've been trying to tell Sean this for a long time but he won't listen.  [Someone from] Avrille said that, given what's going on, sedevacantism is an understandable and tenable position.  Bishop Williamson said that same thing, that he understands it, though doesn't agree.  Archbishop Lefebvre has a history of making statements where at times he even leaned sedevacantist himself.  Father Chazal agrees with a lot of the sedevacantist propositions ... and I had been hoping he could be a bridge of unity between Resistance and sedevacantists.

    Whenever I brought these quotes up, Sean gratuitously dismissed them and then cited something from the early 1980s where Archbishop Lefebvre was somewhat hostile toward sedevacantism due to 1) the Nine and 2) hopes regarding the papacy of Wojtyla.  But he was disillusioned by Wojtyla at Assisi and nearly came out sedevacantist as a result.  In fact, the neo-SSPX cite quotes from that same era, when the Archbishop was seeking an agreement with Rome, refusing to acknowledge that he changed his mind and then remained firm in his rejection of any attempts to reconcile with Modernist Rome.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #19 on: July 29, 2021, 10:09:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: RomanTheo on July 29, 2021, 09:59:54 AM
    Incorrect.  Catholics are bound to profess their faith in the Church with four marks - "I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church."   The Church is an object of divine and Catholic faith.  If the sedevacantists were right, and they aren't, the Church with four marks that was founded by Christ would no longer exist.  That is one of the many reasons sedevacantism is a heresy.

    Unfortunately for you, Salza, the Conciliar Church lacks the marks of the Catholic Church.  So right back at you with that comment.  I started a thread with dozens of quotes from Archbishop Lefebvre where he clearly stated that the Conciliar Church lacks the marks of the Catholic Church.  That's obvious to anyone who has the Catholic faith.

    If the Church kept the marks even during the Great Western schism, and the Church keeps the marks during any given interregnum, then the Church can keep the marks now too.

    So, for instance, the mark of unity was materially absent during the Great Western schism but still formally present due to the common profession regarding the normal structure of the Church.
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    Offline Matto

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #20 on: July 29, 2021, 10:20:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: RomanTheo on July 29, 2021, 10:15:08 AM
     So tell us, Ladislaus, where is the infallible, indefectible Church with four marks? 
     
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #21 on: July 29, 2021, 10:21:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: RomanTheo on July 29, 2021, 10:15:08 AM
    So tell us, Ladislaus, where is the infallible, indefectible Church with four marks?
    Start another thread, RT.  To say such a discussion would derail the designs of the OP is a colossal understatement.
    Thank you.
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #22 on: July 29, 2021, 10:43:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: RomanTheo on July 29, 2021, 09:59:54 AM
    Incorrect.  Catholics are bound to profess their faith in the Church with four marks - "I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church."   The Church is an object of divine and Catholic faith.  If the sedevacantists were right, and they aren't, the Church with four marks that was founded by Christ would no longer exist.  That is one of the many reasons sedevacantism is a heresy.
    If you think of the crisis this way, perhaps you might understand better about sedevacantism.

      Imagine the Church as a clean piece of 3 x 7 sturdy card.

      The Great East-West schism creates a tiny bit of the card torn off and left.

     Martin Luther publishes the 95 Theses taking our Bible and left.

     Another tear in what was a perfect sturdy card without any tears.

    As time goes on, 1534, King Henry VIII of England declares himself to be the supreme head of the Church of England. Anglican Church is founded.
     
    More tears! MORE TEARS FROM above!  Imagine now in 1967 or so, Vatican II leaves the Church taking with it all the properties, possessions creating an illusion; (Is the Church only buildings, the illusion)  BUT leaving the Deposit of Faith behind, leaving all the instructions of the past pope's writings. Creating now a NEW ORDER, the Novus Ordo.

    Now imagine this a perfect 3 x 7 card that was and STILL IS PERFECT AND STURDY but smaller and tiny. Luke 18:8
    " But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall He find, think you, faith on earth?"

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    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #23 on: July 29, 2021, 11:08:04 AM »
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    • While there is a lot of unnecessary fighting (entirely unproductive, especially between Resistance and Sedevacantists) and I would love there to be more charity and unity in the traditional Church... This is a pretty great site to get uncompromising views, and looking at some threads like the recent anonymous thread where the man is losing everything we CAN pull together.

    Quote from: MyrnaM on July 29, 2021, 09:37:36 AM
     His question to us will NOT be, "Did you believe Francis and his predecessors were true popes?"  He will ask us instead;  "How did you Keep the Faith?"

    Yes!
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #24 on: July 29, 2021, 11:14:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: RomanTheo on July 29, 2021, 09:59:54 AM
    Quote from: MyrnaM on July 29, 2021, 09:37:36 AM
    The only point of disunity is we can't all agree on is the solution, perhaps that is because only God has the solution and He is keeping it a secret from us.  He wants us to have FAITH IN ONLY HIM.

     Catholics are bound to profess their faith in the Church with four marks - "I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church."   The Church is an object of divine and Catholic faith.  If the sedevacantists were right, and they aren't, the Church with four marks that was founded by Christ would no longer exist.  That is one of the many reasons sedevacantism is a heresy.
    Actually RT, you're both right....No one can believe in Christ and at the same time not believe in His Church. As Pope Pius XII said referencing St. Paul, Christ and the Church are one: "The doctrine of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, was first taught us by the Redeemer Himself" and this has been repeated throughout many papal teachings, St. Augustine also taught that you can never separate Christ from the Church because the two are one.

    oh yeah, Thanks Matthew!
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #25 on: July 29, 2021, 11:32:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: RomanTheo on July 29, 2021, 09:59:54 AM
    Incorrect.  Catholics are bound to profess their faith in the Church with four marks - "I believe in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church."   The Church is an object of divine and Catholic faith.  If the sedevacantists were right, and they aren't, the Church with four marks that was founded by Christ would no longer exist.  That is one of the many reasons sedevacantism is a heresy.
    This is a Cathinfo Appreciation thread. Why don't you send some money to Matthew instead of acting like a stuck record repeating the same lines over and over?
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    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #26 on: July 29, 2021, 12:00:59 PM »
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    • Quote from: RomanTheo on July 29, 2021, 11:11:15 AM
    Vatican II was a council.  How does a council leave the Church?  If you are saying all the bishops who signed the docuмents left the Church, that would mean the entire hierarchy left the Church, which would constitute a defection of the Church.  

    Just as Christ's mission was to redeem mankind and establish the Church, so too the mission of the Holy Ghost is to preserve the Church from defecting. To claim that the hierarchy defected at Vatican II is to affirm that the Holy Ghost failed in his divine mission - and it doesn't help to claim Paul VI wasn't really the Pope, because the Holy Ghost preserves the Church from defecting even when there is no Pope.

    But the main problem with your reasoning is that is presumes Vatican II taught heresy. It didn't.  Having studied the problematic statement carefully, I maintain that it didn't even teach an error.  If a Catholic reads the docuмents "in light of tradition" - the same way they do with the docuмents of every other Council - everything is easily reconciled with what the Church has always taught.  
    :facepalm: You can start a new thread for this buddy.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #27 on: July 29, 2021, 12:07:01 PM »
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    • Yes, please do. Take the sede vs. non-sede debate to another thread, in the Crisis subforum.

    I actually have to remind myself that RomanTheo is "on my side" as it were, at least in a broad sense (non-Sede) -- but he's actually annoying ME, even though I'm recognize and resist/Resistance/non-sede.

    Apparently being "on my team" is not the be-all and end-all for how I consider members of the forum...
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    Online Minnesota

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #28 on: July 29, 2021, 12:25:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on July 29, 2021, 12:07:01 PM
    Yes, please do. Take the sede vs. non-sede debate to another thread, in the Crisis subforum.

    I actually have to remind myself that RomanTheo is "on my side" as it were -- he's actually annoying ME, even though I'm recognize and resist/Resistance/non-sede.

    Apparently being "on my team" is not the be-all and end-all for how I consider members of the forum...
    If you had a dollar for every time a thread that wasn't originally a sede debate devolved into a sede/non-sede debate, you would be able to make this forum your full-time job. Very good lawyer/doctor/CIO money too.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Cathinfo Appreciation
    « Reply #29 on: July 29, 2021, 12:28:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Minnesota on July 29, 2021, 12:25:38 PM
    If you had a dollar for every time a thread that wasn't originally a sede debate devolved into a sede/non-sede debate, you would be able to make this forum your full-time job. Very good lawyer/doctor/CIO money too.

    Talk about judging by the fruits -- the fruits of the INCESSANT DEBATE (sede vs. non-sede) are putrid and completely lacking.

    Regardless of which of those positions themselves bear better fruit (let's not get into a debate here!), the ARGUING about those positions is certainly counter-productive AT BEST, a waste of time, and sinful at worst.

    Advice un-asked-for is often spurned.

    If someone comes up to you questioning his own position on the Pope and asking you for advice -- then go for it. Otherwise, you're wasting your breath. No one converts their whole life and position from a post someone made on an anonymous forum.
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