Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => The Catholic Bunker => Topic started by: Vandaler on September 24, 2007, 10:54:14 PM
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OK here we go,
In this first step, I simply roughed out the video, and numbered the individual statements. No judgements or connection are drawn yet.
Next step is to identify the conclusion(s) and the premises that support those conclusions. I will then lay the argumentative network that connect all the statements. That may take a few days.
Panel 1. (Introduction)
(1) The following information is about Nibiru, (2) and is stated as fact using Astronomical and scientific facts as the ultimate proof.
(x)This is the final episode or the "Are you ready" series, and will have the most proof out of all the videos.
Panel 2. (Scientific community in the 80's)
(3) NASA recognized the possibility (in 1982) of an extra - solar planet. (4) One year later (1983), NASA launched the IRAS (Infrared Astronomical Satellite), (5) which located a very large object.
(6) The Washington Post Summarized an interview with the JPL IRAS scientist.
Panel 3. (Discovery)
(8) A Heavenly body as large as the giant planet Jupiter (9) and possibly so close to earth that it would be part of this solar system (10) has been found in the direction of the constellation Orion by an orbiting telescope
Exhibit A... Photo of a planet.
Panel 4. (Nibiru conspiracy)
(11) "All I can tell you is that we don't know what it is", said Chief IRAS scientist. (12) All Governments know about this, (13) and they're taking bold steps (14) to survive the coming Planet X (Nibiru) flyby, (13) with their powers intact
Panel 5. (Nibiru conspiracy II)
(15) They know they cannot save everyone, (16) just save those they deem worthy of saving. (17) They have a plan, (x) but do you ? Or will you go quietly into the night because you where left behind ?
Panel 6. (Possibility of survival)
(18) There are simple things that you can set aside today to get you through the difficult years ahead. (19) Regardless of what doom sayers and naysayers tell us, our ancestors have survived similar cataclysms, (20) and so will we !
Panel 7. (What is Nibiru ?)
(21) First Nibiru is one of many Planets (22) that orbit a dark star or (Brown Dwarf). (23) This Dark Star has five minor planets (24) the sixth an Earth-sized Home world, (25) and the seventh the planet or object we call Nibiru
Panel 8. (What is Nibiru ? II)
(24) The Home world is much like Earth (27) and is where the Annuki "Giants or Gods of old" live. (28) Nibiru is largely inhabitable and acts more as a battle station.
Exhibit B: Show an elongated skull.
Panel 9. (Nibiru orbit)
(29) When the dark star is at perihelion (closest approached to our sun) at 60 to 70 AU, Nibiru's orbit, which is at 60 AU from it's parent, has a wide enough orbit to cut through our solar system, usually in the vicinity of Jupiter's orbit, although this can vary.
Panel 10. (Nibiru Orbit II)
(30) Nibiru's orbital inclination is some 30 degrees to our solar plane or ecliptic. (31) As Nibiru cuts through our solar system, in retrograde motion to the other planets it sometimes displaces planets causing general havoc in the process.
Exhibit C: Diagram of the orbits
Panel 11. (Nearing Nibiru)
(32) It's passage is momentous but short, taking only a few weeks or months at most after which it disappears from view. (33) It's fiery red in colour (34) with a debris filled tail, (35) and circling it are a number of moons.
Exhibit D: two pictures, one from March 2002, the other from September 2002 (presumably of Nibiru)
Panel 12. (Past Nibiru damage)
(33) Nibiru or it's moons were responsible for such feats as the destruction of Maldek (34) which is now the asteroid belt. (35) It caused the craters or surfaces scars on the moon or planets of our solar system, (36) as well as their varying axial tilts and orbits.
Panel 13. (Past Nibiru damage II)
(34) It caused the sinking of Atlantis (35) and Noah's Flood. (36) It is the physical link or 'ferry" between our solar system and the dark star system of it's Brown Dwarf Star
Panel 14. (past Nibiru recognition)
(35) Nibiru has been known to be called the Winged (or Horned) Disc in Earths past by humans.
Exhibit E: Rendition of a planet with gaseous wings
Panel 15. (Nibiru angle of approach)
Facts: (36) As Nibiru approaches the inner solar system, it will accelerate quickly below the ecliptic, passing behind and below the sun before it comes back up at a 33 degree angle.
Exhibit F: Animation showing an orbiting object
Panel 16. (Earth Observation)
(37) NASA is watching Nibiru now from their new S.P.T. South Pole Telescope Area in the South Pole!
Exhibit G: Map of south pole with emphasis to a spot named McMurdo
Panel 17. (Nibiru time line)
(38) Nibiru will first be seen by everyday people by May 15th 2009 as a faint reddish object. (39) It will be moving up from below Earths Orbit. (40) This means that until 2009, the only way to see it is from a South very Southern location of Earth
Panel 18. (Nibiru photographic evidence)
(41) The following is a photo taken from a normal person, (42) this shows how Nibiru looks now 2007 as seen in a most southern area of the planet. (43) Once again, this photo is real.
Exhibit H: a three staged tropical sunset with emphasis on a moving spot of light.
Panel 19. (Nibiru ominous approach)
(44) By May of 2011, naked eye viewing by all people. (45) Dec 21 2012, Nibiru will pass through the ecliptic plane, (46) seen as a bright red star & will look as a 2nd sun around the size of our moon. (47) Earth Quakes (48) & very bad weather will take place.
Exhibit I: Movies of a tornadoes
Panel 20. (Nibiru apocalypse)
(49) The worst however comes about by Feb. 14 2013, (50) Earth moves between Nibiru and the Sun. (51)Pole shifting/planetary tilts takes place! Great earth changes, Huge Mega Earth Quakes & Mega Tsunamis world wide !
Exhibit J: Movie showing giant waves destroying landmarks.
Panel 21. (Nibiru departure)
(51) Then by July 1, 2014, Nibiru no longer affects our world & moves on and away from our part of the galaxy. (52) NASA knows about Nibiru, (53) & as not to panic the people (54) withholds the truth of this !
Panel 22. (Nibiru cover up)
(55) Insiders from NASA, DoD, national military intelligence, S.E.T.I, and the CIA speculate 2/3 of the population of the planet could perish during the coming pole-shift caused by the passage of Nibiru !
Panel 23. (Nibiru survival)
(56) Another 2/3 of those that survive initially could pass away to starvation and exposure to the elements within 6 months.
Panel 24. (Nibiru cover up II)
(57) Most every secretive government agency in the USA is fully aware of what is expected and are readying themselves. (58) The Vatican is fully abreast of what is expected. (59) The public is not being warned and given their chance to prepare.
Panel 25. (Nibiru cover up III)
(60)The volume of leaks from insiders, (61)observatories, (62) and the Vatican is bursting the dam of this disclosure wide open. The most important story on earth in over 3000 years is fast breaking loose from being (63) held back by the controllers of the financial markets.
Panel 26. (Nibiru Cover up IV)
(64) The controllers put money in higher regard then human life. (66) The public can be given a chance to prepare by being informed. (67) Many areas of earth are now getting minor preview of these events to come.right now.
Panel 27. (Purpose for message)
(68) I hope my videos are a cry in the dark to some, and that they wake up to this truth and understanding. (69) To help my fellow human being to start looking with open minds, and see the beauty and wonders everywhere
Panel 28. (Empowerment and wishing well)
(69) Knowing is Power, Understanding is wisdom ! ARE YOU READY ? Peace be with you all always
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Very good, Vandaler. This will be helpful.
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Well this is kinda of a turn off but this exercise won't work as well as I hoped. The reason being that the presentation is more of an explanation then a reasoned argument. Both do not obey the same rules where logical reasoning is concerned.
All that can really be done, is evaluate the statements, suppressed statements - Those that are unwritten but implied - and exhibits.
Since the video involve both science and a set of beliefs, when science is invoked, hard science will be applied, and when beliefs are invoked, Traditional Catholic beliefs should be applied since the analysis resides on this forum.
This should provide for a relatively unbiased frame of reference.
I'll start tomorrow and work my way down frame by frame.
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Panel 1. (Introduction)
(1) The following information is about Nibiru
True.
(2) and is stated as fact using Astronomical and scientific facts as the ultimate proof.
This exercise is aimed at measuring the accuracy of this statement. I notice the use of the word ultimate, which is an indication that the author feels strongly about the validity of his presentation.
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Panel 2. (Scientific community in the 80's)
(3) NASA recognized the possibility (in 1982) of an extra - solar planet.
True, some serious scientists where working on this subject. Chief among them, Bob Harrington (http://ad.usno.navy.mil/wds/history/harrington.html) from the US Royal Observatory.
(4) One year later (1983), NASA launched the IRAS (Infrared Astronomical Satellite),
True (http://irsa.ipac.caltech.edu/IRASdocs/iras.html)
(5) which located a very large object.
True in itself, IRAS discovered many new objects (http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/Outreach/Edu/iras_discoveries.html)
(6) The Washington Post Summarized an interview with the JPL IRAS scientist.
The Washington Post reported: "A heavenly body possibly as large as the giant planet Jupiter and possibly so close to Earth that it would be part of this solar system has been found in the direction of the constellation Orion by an orbiting telescope aboard the U.S. infrared astronomical satellite. So mysterious is the object that astronomers do not know if it is a planet, a giant comet, a nearby 'protostar' that never got hot enough to become a star, a distant galaxy so young that it is still in the process of forming its first stars or a galaxy so shrouded in dust that none of the light cast by its stars ever gets through."
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Panel 3. (Discovery)
(8) A Heavenly body as large as the giant planet Jupiter
True, as reported in the Washington Post above
(9) and possibly so close to earth that it would be part of this solar system
True, as reported in the Washington Post above
(10) has been found in the direction of the constellation Orion by an orbiting telescope
True, as reported in the Washington Post above
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Exhibit A... Photo of a planet.
One can only suppose that the picture represents the object reported in the Washington Post. The peculiar aspect is the copyright 2003 to Andy Lloyd (http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/andy.html), the author of Dark Star: The planet X Evidence. (http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/dst.html)
How does one get to copyright the picture of a planet that is supposedly secretly hidden from us is beyond me. I will leave that question be. Either way, it represents an acknowledged object. The picture is not necessary to ascertain that the object exist so this exhibit is not useful. It's validity need not assessed.
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Panel 4. (Nibiru conspiracy)
(11) "All I can tell you is that we don't know what it is", said Chief IRAS scientist.
Likely true, it's consistent with the Washington Post article.
(12-13-14) All Governments know about this, and they're taking bold steps to survive the coming Planet X (Nibiru) flyby, with their powers intact
Without any explanations, it's assumed that this body is Nibiru. An hypothetical planet based on the radical translation of Zecharia Sitchin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin) of Sumerian texts. According to these writings, Nibiru follows a path that brings it back every 3,600 years and it's next passage is very close in time.
There is no attempt to explain the linkage between the Washington Post article and Nibiru.
Furthermore, there is an important point to bear in mind. The belief system of Nibiru implies almost automatically a cover up, since such a large object coming toward us would be detected without any doubt. So, whether there is a cover up or not, the notion of conspiracy is hardwired in the belief system. By extension, the notion of leaks that permit to even discuss the matter is also implied in this belief system.
Because of this, one needs to be particularly keened eye on who is leaking this information, and the quality of the evidence presented. As it turns out, no effort is made to say who might have been leaking this. More on this later.
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I'm with you so far.
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Panel 5. (Nibiru conspiracy II)
(15-16-17) They know they cannot save everyone, just save those they deem worthy of saving. They have a plan, but do you ? Or will you go quietly into the night because you where left behind ?
This is likely reasonable given (12-13-14) and could be believed in good faith by someone accepting (12-13-14) but that former point was so poorly introduced and without the slightest attempt at explanation, it does not sit well.
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Panel 6. (Possibility of survival)
(18-19-20) There are simple things that you can set aside today to get you through the difficult years ahead. Regardless of what doom sayers and naysayers tell us, our ancestors have survived similar cataclysms, and so will we !
This is likely reasonable given (12-13-14-15-16-17) and could be believed in good faith by someone accepting (12-13-14-15-16-17) but we badly need some supporting evidence now.
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Panel 7. (What is Nibiru ?)
(21-22-23-24-25) First Nibiru is one of many Planets that orbit a dark star or (Brown Dwarf). This Dark Star has five minor planets the sixth an Earth-sized Home world, and the seventh the planet or object we call Nibiru
We now enter the world of Zacharia Sitchin, It's becoming clear that the first 3 panels where unnecessary, since no attempts at linking the science at the beginning and Nibiru was made.
Edited: The above planetary system needs to be believed for what it is. No evidence is provided. It's an offshoot of Sitchin actually. The idea that Nibiru circles around a brown dwarf is actually an idea of Andy Lloyd. (link provided above)
What we need to do now, is align this belief system with that of Catholics and see if it's even remotely compatible to go forward.
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Panel 8. (What is Nibiru ? II)
(24) The Home world is much like Earth
Evidence ?
(27) and is where the Annuki "Giants or Gods of old" live.
Annukis according to Sitchin are technologically advanced human-like alien race which would have visited Earth in search of gold particles. Annukis are also the creators of men according to Sitchin. (Read Sitchin's link.)
Giants and Gods of old... what is that ?
(28) Nibiru is largely inhabitable and acts more as a battle station.
Ok. Thanks for that.
Clearly, one cannot be Catholic and give credence to the above.
Essentially, we jumped out of science into this clearly anti-Christian and blasphemous belief system.
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Exhibit B: Show an elongated skull.
We have already established the need for good evidence. What is that cranium being presented. An Annuki ? No explanation is provided.
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Thanks Vandaler. In light of your analysis, I feel like writing this guy and asking him to remove the references to St. Briggitt.
There's something just not right about using a Saint's writings to further the "proofs" for new age sci fi mumbo jumbo.
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It is a bad association I agree.
While I'm at it, I should atone on the fact that upon a much deeper look, the origin of this myth is not as innocuous as I once thought (Weekly World News article).
At least, that article had the merit of not taking itself seriously with some tongue in cheek humour. To quote that article, I believe that ...have been distorted by mangled information spewed from the hole. (http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/wwn/20050912/112653720013.html) applies far better to Andy Lloyd and Zacharia Sitchin then to their reported acid cloud.
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It's weak, Vandaler, just as the film was weak. A case of they said, you said. The real problem is you work without real authority, specifically the Bible. The Nephilim (giants and gods of old) are in the Bible. How the heck they got tothe "homeland" is beyond me. I suspect imagination.
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It's weak, Vandaler, just as the film was weak. A case of they said, you said. The real problem is you work without real authority, specifically the Bible. The Nephilim (giants and gods of old) are in the Bible. How the heck they got tothe "homeland" is beyond me. I suspect imagination.
Point well taken.
The exercise did not go as I had hoped. I had hoped to created what is called a truth table. The way the text is structured, it was not possible - or perhaps I was just not able because I don't master the technique -. I just followed through with something instead.
That being said, the amount of effort and care I put is only proportionate to that what I believe is necessary to show that the whole Nibiru package is incompatible with Catholic Doctrine.
I'm not sure, to what authority you would resort, to make it compatible. So what if the Nephilim are in the Bible... New Age types take some elements from the Bible all the time, that don't make their points valid.
I personally think you suckered yourself into a position to debate me, for the sake of it and conversation, all the while forgetting that this type of position would be something you would not defend under other circuмstances. I might be wrong.
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Oh, you are dead wrong. Of all the infinite ways in which God can choose to execute His decision, this is the way I hope He chooses, and it DOES fit what He said is going to happen to us as nothing else does to my knowledge. If anything "suckered me into it" it was hope---it is hope. As for the dates, I wish they could be pushed forward. No more torture, no more murder of souls, no more abortion or molested children, no more lies, no more enemies of God and mankind, ad infinitum.
I argued out of faith, hope and charity. You, as far as I can tell, argued out of misplaced faith in men and your own intelligence. Most of us here wouldn't give a nickel's worth of trust to your sources, yet for some reason I cannot fathom we let that stand. And one more thing. If you do find the truth these days you can be sure it is buried in lies, not standing up waving a flag at you.
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I argued out of faith, hope and charity. You, as far as I can tell, argued out of misplaced faith in men and your own intelligence.
You want to moral high ground ? You can have it. I'm looking to make sense out of information thrown at us from all kinds of direction. I'm not a politician. I don't care about that in the least.
Most of us here wouldn't give a nickel's worth of trust to your sources, yet for some reason I cannot fathom we let that stand.
Perhaps,
That's anyway the way Hollingworths seemed to hope things are; that this forum is but a bandwagon of folks with the same mind that would defacto reject what I write. I don't care about that either. Facts don't comply to majority rule.
I don't know that I have much else to say on this whole Niribu subject.
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What moral high ground? Even when I tell you the truth about me and where I'm coming from you reject it as some sort of manipulation or trick, not just a fact about me. Yet you lend credence to and call facts whatever falls from the mouths of people who proven themselves dishonest. Think about this, Vandaler. They don't give a hoot about you. They can lead you anywhere, even the pits of hell, and not bat an eye. To them a lie is as good as the truth and often better. What you call facts and rely on, we consider suspicious at best. The people of the world are satan's git.
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What moral high ground? Even when I tell you the truth about me and where I'm coming from you reject it as some sort of manipulation or trick, not just a fact about me.
If you want to tell about yourself, please do, but in so doing, don't try and compare your motives to mine in an advantageous way and I won't be on your back. Your now setting the facts aside and appealing to popularity to make your points. It's obvious but perhaps your not doing it on purpose.
Think about this, Vandaler. They don't give a hoot about you.
Again more of the same. I know they don't give a hoot, and I don't do anything to be liked either. In fact I'm rather despicable in my own way. So what is your point. Does that improve the conversation in your favour ?
I don't see anyone here waiting on Niribu with glee in their eyes, or putting me in my place as you seem to hope. Why is that ?
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My guess: Nobody cares.
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:laugh1:
I like that, well put.
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Quoted from the OP:
Panel 19. (Nibiru ominous approach)
(44) By May of 2011, naked eye viewing by all people. (45) Dec 21 2012, Nibiru will pass through the ecliptic plane, (46) seen as a bright red star & will look as a 2nd sun around the size of our moon. (47) Earth Quakes (48) & very bad weather will take place.
Exhibit I: Movies of a tornadoes
Panel 20. (Nibiru apocalypse)
(49) The worst however comes about by Feb. 14 2013, (50) Earth moves between Nibiru and the Sun. (51)Pole shifting/planetary tilts takes place! Great earth changes, Huge Mega Earth Quakes & Mega Tsunamis world wide !
Exhibit J: Movie showing giant waves destroying landmarks.
Panel 21. (Nibiru departure)
(51) Then by July 1, 2014, Nibiru no longer affects our world & moves on and away from our part of the galaxy. (52) NASA knows about Nibiru, (53) & as not to panic the people (54) withholds the truth of this !
2014 was 2 years ago, and I don't recall hearing anything of Nibiru passing by our part of the galaxy.
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Wait, why did you revive an almost 9 year old thread?
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Wait, why did you revive an almost 9 year old thread?
Probably because its a good exercise in showing how many people who contribute to posts here make apocalyptic prophecies that are "just around the corner" which never come to light.
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The threads are strange because we will all have our own apocalypse at the instant that we die. God knows the exact moment that I will come to him for judgment. I no longer worry about the above stuff. I try to stay in the state of grace, say my rosary, go to a true mass and confession as often as possible, and perform my daily duties. The priests at Nagasaki that survived the nuclear blast at ground zero did the above and did not concern themselves with and worry about imminent disaster and neither will I.
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Yes but we have an obligation to those who are not engaging in the above holy activities, even people that are unknown to us but known to God. John 13; 34 "A new commandment I give you, that you love one another: that as I have loved you, you also love one another." A new COMMANDMENT Jesus called it!
Our Lady said, "many souls go to Hell because they have no one to pray for them."
It's not just about us.
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The reason why I'm suspicious about this whole Nibiru thing (apart from science - I don't have much knowledge of astronomy) is the origin of this theory - as far as I know the first people to claim that Nibiru/Planet X exists were Nancy Leider, a woman who claimed she was in contact with aliens, and Zecharia Sitchin who argued from Summerian texts that Nibiru is inhabitated by the alien race of Anunnaki. Not very reliable sources, to put it mildly. It seems like a hoax which later somehow made its way into some Traditional Catholic circles through people like Eric GaJєωski.
If the origins of Nibiru/Planet X claims are substantially different than what I outlined above, please correct me.
Of course, I do not reject the possibility that God might chastise the world through some cosmic disaster (Book of Revelation mentions Wormwood), but I'm yet to see any reliable source about Nibiru/Planet X.
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The reason why I'm suspicious about this whole Nibiru thing (apart from science - I don't have much knowledge of astronomy) is the origin of this theory - as far as I know the first people to claim that Nibiru/Planet X exists were Nancy Leider, a woman who claimed she was in contact with aliens, and Zecharia Sitchin who argued from Summerian texts that Nibiru is inhabitated by the alien race of Anunnaki. Not very reliable sources, to put it mildly. It seems like a hoax which later somehow made its way into some Traditional Catholic circles through people like Eric GaJєωski.
If the origins of Nibiru/Planet X claims are substantially different than what I outlined above, please correct me.
Of course, I do not reject the possibility that God might chastise the world through some cosmic disaster (Book of Revelation mentions Wormwood), but I'm yet to see any reliable source about Nibiru/Planet X.
I agree with you that the names Planet X, Nibiru add nonsense to the tale, and yes, that entire aliens fairy tale about cone heads and the weirdness of it all do not add any creditability to the story. Like you I do believe that God is about to chastise the world and all the silliness that folks like to sensationalize about are just that.
Ask yourself why wouldn't God purify the world, it seems the time is ripe. Exactly how He does it, time will tell.
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Just think, a thread started 9 years ago and 9 years latter.
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Of course, I do not reject the possibility that God might chastise the world through some cosmic disaster (Book of Revelation mentions Wormwood), but I'm yet to see any reliable source about Nibiru/Planet X.
I just consider the various names to be referring to the same thing, the object itself that He will use to destroy the earth by fire.
"And the second angel sounded the trumpet: and as it were a great mountain, burning with fire, was cast into the sea, and the third part of the sea became blood: And the third part of those creatures died, which had life in the sea, and the third part of the ships was destroyed. And the third angel sounded the trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, burning as it were a torch, and it fell on the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters: And the name of the star is called Wormwood." Apoc. 8:8-11/DRV
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Of course, I do not reject the possibility that God might chastise the world through some cosmic disaster (Book of Revelation mentions Wormwood), but I'm yet to see any reliable source about Nibiru/Planet X.
I just consider the various names to be referring to the same thing, the object itself that He will use to destroy the earth by fire.
"And the second angel sounded the trumpet: and as it were a great mountain, burning with fire, was cast into the sea, and the third part of the sea became blood: And the third part of those creatures died, which had life in the sea, and the third part of the ships was destroyed. And the third angel sounded the trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, burning as it were a torch, and it fell on the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters: And the name of the star is called Wormwood." Apoc. 8:8-11/DRV
I have to agree, and sooner or later it will be history and the world will be purified and the Church will be restored.