Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Funny Stuff for Catholics => Topic started by: FirstAid on June 21, 2013, 03:13:41 AM
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:argue: :argue:Dear Cathinfo,
My New Novus Ordo priest has told me that now that I understand why the SSPX are wrong that I am legally obligated not to take the sacraments from them. I no longer attend Mass with my parents or brothers. I did sort of understand why at the time he was explaining it all to me but I know that I can't persuade my parents. It is really frustrating because he went up to my parents house and still did not convert them. He says that they must want the truth and that they are not ready for it yet. He has told my grandmother who is intelligent enough but she cannot articulate the arguments with them either despite trying for the past 4 years. I am worried that I can no longer obey the 4th commandment and that it will keep me in sin. I have told the priest that they are weird (girls are not allowed to wear trousers) and cruel (they do not allow people to talk to the younger students just because they are atheists) My new priest knows that they are regarded as ultra conservative crackpots.
Please pray for me and my family
FirstAid
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Hmmm. Thought I was on the wrong forum. I will pray for you that you don't return to the NO.
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Why did you say that the SSPX is weird? I thought you're a Trad.
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First Aid, did it ever occur to you that your novus ordo priest is the one that is wrong?
You need to get some older Catholic books, and compare them to the writings of today's Catholics just to see who is right and who is wrong.
Seek a few out on the Internet, or ask for advice of what books you should be looking for right here on this forum.
I would suggest you basic catechism book, something you might understand from the beginning and grow from there.
Of course your novus ordo priest, if you ask him, will tell you those books are outdated. Then ask how can truth be outdated?
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:argue: :argue:Dear Cathinfo,
My New Novus Ordo priest has told me that now that I understand why the SSPX are wrong that I am legally obligated not to take the sacraments from them. I no longer attend Mass with my parents or brothers. I did sort of understand why at the time he was explaining it all to me but I know that I can't persuade my parents. It is really frustrating because he went up to my parents house and still did not convert them. He says that they must want the truth and that they are not ready for it yet. He has told my grandmother who is intelligent enough but she cannot articulate the arguments with them either despite trying for the past 4 years. I am worried that I can no longer obey the 4th commandment and that it will keep me in sin. I have told the priest that they are weird (girls are not allowed to wear trousers) and cruel (they do not allow people to talk to the younger students just because they are atheists) My new priest knows that they are regarded as ultra conservative crackpots.
Please pray for me and my family
FirstAid
Women did not wear trousers for over 500 years in Western Civilization, and even for centuries after the founding of Jamestown. Why was that behavior weird? Was Saint Thomas Aquinas wrong, as the Church's principle theologian (even per the 1983 Code of Canon Law), when he wrote the following:
"As stated in the foregoing Article, outward apparel should be consistent with the estate of the person, according to the general custom. Hence it is in itself sinful for a woman to wear man's clothes, or vice versa; especially since this may be a cause of sensuous pleasure; and it is expressly forbidden in the Law (Deuteronomy 22) because the Gentiles used to practice this change of attire for the purpose of idolatrous superstition. Nevertheless this may be done sometimes without sin on account of some necessity, either in order to hide oneself from enemies, or through lack of other clothes, or for some similar motive." (ST, II II, 169, 2, ad 3)
If it is "weird" for girls not to wear trousers, why is it "weird" for boys not to wear dresses? And, where should we get our moral standards from, the culture or Catholic Tradition? And as for being "ultra conservative crackpots," whose judgment is that? Yours, the Catholic Church's, or the Triune God's?
I hope that you do not find yourself in eternal Hell someday; it'll be a "one-way" trip for you!
P.S. As for talking with atheists, what would be the point of doing that, especially, for a young person?
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P.P.S. FirstAid is a troll and everything which he (or she -- unlikely) wrote is likely made-up. I suspect that FirstAid is, in fact, an atheist. In particular, getting a NO priest to go to anyone's house in attempt to "convert" them is almost unheard of!!!! This is claim is almost certainly not true!
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My new priest knows that they are regarded as ultra conservative crackpots.
When the world is insane, the truth seems crazy to worldlings.
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FistAid is simply a troll who needs to be banned now rather than later.
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:argue: :argue:Dear Cathinfo,
My New Novus Ordo priest has told me that now that I understand why the SSPX are wrong that I am legally obligated not to take the sacraments from them. I no longer attend Mass with my parents or brothers. I did sort of understand why at the time he was explaining it all to me but I know that I can't persuade my parents. It is really frustrating because he went up to my parents house and still did not convert them. He says that they must want the truth and that they are not ready for it yet. He has told my grandmother who is intelligent enough but she cannot articulate the arguments with them either despite trying for the past 4 years. I am worried that I can no longer obey the 4th commandment and that it will keep me in sin. I have told the priest that they are weird (girls are not allowed to wear trousers) and cruel (they do not allow people to talk to the younger students just because they are atheists) My new priest knows that they are regarded as ultra conservative crackpots.
Please pray for me and my family
FirstAid
What a BS hit-and-run post.
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"First Aid" needs some first aid. Like a gigantic bandage across his trolling mouth. Perhaps some soap could be inserted in there first?
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:argue: :argue:Dear Cathinfo,
My New Novus Ordo priest has told me that now that I understand why the SSPX are wrong that I am legally obligated not to take the sacraments from them. I no longer attend Mass with my parents or brothers. I did sort of understand why at the time he was explaining it all to me but I know that I can't persuade my parents. It is really frustrating because he went up to my parents house and still did not convert them. He says that they must want the truth and that they are not ready for it yet. He has told my grandmother who is intelligent enough but she cannot articulate the arguments with them either despite trying for the past 4 years. I am worried that I can no longer obey the 4th commandment and that it will keep me in sin. I have told the priest that they are weird (girls are not allowed to wear trousers) and cruel (they do not allow people to talk to the younger students just because they are atheists) My new priest knows that they are regarded as ultra conservative crackpots.
Please pray for me and my family
FirstAid
I'll assume it's genuine -
FirstAid. The very worst thing you can possibly do if you are having doubts about Tradition and tempted to return to the Novus Ordo (and holding the fort all on your own can be hard work) is to consult a Modernist. The doubts and the despair come from the Devil. He wants more than anything to drag faithful Catholics who cling to the True Mass into Hell. It's exactly like Cranmer and the English protestants - the Devil will tell us we are all alone, and how can we possibly be right. He will tell us that the collected weight of modern 'scholarship' and the whole movement of the world says that we are wrong. The mocking tirades of the Modernists (we are 'weird' etc) won't stop. The old Bishop of London, Goldwell, and Feckenham the Abbot of Westminster (in the Tower in Elizabeth's reign) had to listen to the daily harangue of a Puritan chaplain, who could, like the Devil, 'twist Scripture to his own purposes'. They remained faithful, these two frail old men, to a Faith mocked and ridiculed daily by broadsheet and pamphlet (I remember a cartoon in the 'Tablet' with the caption 'Tridentine Catholicism? Does sir want that in hardback or straitjacket?') Don't read 'em.
If we are wrong, then St. Peter was wrong, then St. Pius V was wrong, then St. Pius X was wrong. If we are wrong the Church taught error for 1900 years until Vatican II. That's exactly what the Protestants say - that the Church taught error until a low fornicating monk and a traitor to his vows (Luther) corrected it! We have 1962 years of Holy Tradition on our side, and every Saint. The Modernists cannot be right - they can have the upper hand for a day; and more than a day, but what was true at Trent and Vatican I is true today.
You were right, your parents and grandparents are right - in the SSPX you were right, you had the True Mass, the True Sacraments, True, unchanging Catholic doctrine. Think of St. Athanasius - almost every other Bishop taught that Our Blessed Lord was a man. A created, mortal man. He remained loyal to the Faith - that Our Lord is wholly God and wholly Man. Think of the English Catholic recusants, who kept the Faith by hiding chasubles underneath floorboards and smuggling in priests at night to say Mass amongst an alien and Protestant people. For God's sake, and I do not say this lightly, for God's sake keep to Tradition!
Do not take the easy way! How does the Devil winkle trads out of Tradition'? Emotionalism. Wouldn't it be nice if I did not have to drive one/two/three hours to Mass? The fact one is very often holding the fort on your own - it would be easier to accept either the Indult or the Novus Ordo in a 'ritualised' form (the 'reform of the reform')* and quietly put the Crisis to one side.
Good grief, God forgive me, I have done it. If you don't act as you think, you start to think as you act.You will careen slowly into Modernism. You can see it in the FSSP and ICRSS. They've lain down the sword. I hear they've accepted the Novus Ordo and assist at a Novus Ordo Chrism Mass. It was inevitable. First, you're afraid of 'insulting the Pope' who, 'so graciously gave us the Indult'/received us into 'full communion' (you were never outside the Church) or thinking that 'the Pauline Mass [note the pseudo-traditional shift in terminology] isn't so bad - it's only abused. This is how it was meant to be offered'. Right-ho.
Hermeneutic of continuity alert! You've already accepted Vatican II as inherently good and it's a downward slide from there - every Conciliar error can be explained away. You've accepted Modernism. I've said it before, it's a hermeneutic of self-delusion. You've abandoned the terms of the battle - Tradition versus the Council - , so now you can convince yourself that every Modernist heresy can be explained away or simply ignored.
I'm not suggesting, God forbid, Holy Church has defected, but look at Cranmer. Michael Davies made the comparison. Now the Modernist heretics, unlike most heretics, have not declared a new 'church'. They're quite content ravaging and subverting the Church Militant on Earth (which is why they are so pernicious - it's heresy inside the Church). Cranmer's 'sonorous prose' Protestantized England by repetition and by acceptance for the sake of peace. Catholic-minded men who hated Protestantism contented themselves with the little rituals and solemnities of 'High Church' Anglicanism - dare I say the little rituals and solemnities remaining in the 'reform of the reform'? and so lost the Faith.
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How old are you?
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If you mean 'First Aid' I am sorry, but I don't know why you want to know my age. I don't think my comment was childish.
In answer to your question, not very - I'm quite a young man. I can't remember the Council. I don't see what my youth has to do with the point, though. If you think I sound a bit... hypocritical as a young man talking about 'holding the fort', I base those comments on my experience living about two hundred miles from the nearest Tridentine Mass. I've no intention of dragging the discussion to a personal level, but I hope my comment is not hot air.
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Patrick, I feel sure the age comment was directed at FirstAid not your comment. I suppose I feel that way because the OP here seems to be coming from someone very young, perhaps only 15 to 16 years of age.
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Well then. First Aid, as kindly as I can put it it is extremely hard to be a good young Catholic today. I advise you- no! I beg you - not to abandon Holy Tradition. I am sure nothing gives the Devil more happiness than to wrest a Catholic soul from Holy Faith. I am sure you know from your catechism as a little child that Tradition is true, that the SSPX is right. The Faith is wholly satisfactory to the mind. Any renunciation of the Faith, then, the true Faith, can only be down to emotionalism, or a desire for ease, or something of that sort.
You should never have spoken to a Modernist priest. That's rather like a hen visiting the fox's earth. However, there is no good crying over spilt milk and you should be glad your parents remained loyal to Tradition. The Novus Ordo is not a Catholic Mass. It is a sacrilege. It's as simple as that. It is offensive to God. To assist at the New Mass is an objectively mortal sin of sacrilege.
I don't know why or how you are tempted. I was tempted with ease - wouldn't it be nice and easy if you went along with the Novus Ordo and then we'd all be friends again. The Devil is very cunning and has many strings to his bow. If you don't listen to me, as I am a layman you've never met, listen to your priest - the traditional, SSPX priest - and to your parents.
Also, try to get a good book. A popular American one (I've never seen it on this side of the Atlantic, but I've read excerpts) is Father Lasance's Young Man's Guide/Young Girls Guide. All I can say after that is that I'll pray for you.
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If you mean 'First Aid' I am sorry, but I don't know why you want to know my age. I don't think my comment was childish.
In answer to your question, not very - I'm quite a young man. I can't remember the Council. I don't see what my youth has to do with the point, though. If you think I sound a bit... hypocritical as a young man talking about 'holding the fort', I base those comments on my experience living about two hundred miles from the nearest Tridentine Mass. I've no intention of dragging the discussion to a personal level, but I hope my comment is not hot air.
I didn't mean you. I meant the original poster.
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Hmmm, the OP still only has one post, no responses to his/her thread. Hit and run trollage?
Luke
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Yep.
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Okay I do not quite remember all of the responses. What is a troll? I am 19 but some specialist that my parents took me to says that some parts of my brain were measured at the age of 10.5 when I was 15. I don't know if that is true or not anymore. My family is traditional but the aunties uncles and anyone else are all novus ordo or just nothing.
I go by statistics 1.2 billion Catholics out there are more or less novus ordo. I do not even know if SSPX are even Catholic anymore. Sometimes I hate my parents other times I am confused. I want my brothers out out of the school because one priest there was so strict about me. I tell the Novus Ordo Priest everything. The novus ordo priest I go to thinks that the school is very bad and he scares me. The psychologist that I go to is worried that my home is the problem for them. My memory is bad and I am worried that I may have been overreacting too.
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Okay I do not quite remember all of the responses. What is a troll? I am 19 but some specialist that my parents took me to says that some parts of my brain were measured at the age of 10.5 when I was 15. I don't know if that is true or not anymore. My family is traditional but the aunties uncles and anyone else are all novus ordo or just nothing.
I go by statistics 1.2 billion Catholics out there are more or less novus ordo. I do not even know if SSPX are even Catholic anymore. Sometimes I hate my parents other times I am confused. I want my brothers out out of the school because one priest there was so strict about me. I tell the Novus Ordo Priest everything. The novus ordo priest I go to thinks that the school is very bad and he scares me. The psychologist that I go to is worried that my home is the problem for them. My memory is bad and I am worried that I may have been overreacting too.
If your psychologist is trying to turn you against your parents, then your psychologist is the problem.
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Okay I do not quite remember all of the responses. What is a troll? I am 19 but some specialist that my parents took me to says that some parts of my brain were measured at the age of 10.5 when I was 15. I don't know if that is true or not anymore. My family is traditional but the aunties uncles and anyone else are all novus ordo or just nothing.
I go by statistics 1.2 billion Catholics out there are more or less novus ordo. I do not even know if SSPX are even Catholic anymore. Sometimes I hate my parents other times I am confused. I want my brothers out out of the school because one priest there was so strict about me. I tell the Novus Ordo Priest everything. The novus ordo priest I go to thinks that the school is very bad and he scares me. The psychologist that I go to is worried that my home is the problem for them. My memory is bad and I am worried that I may have been overreacting too.
If your psychologist is trying to turn you against your parents, then your psychologist is the problem.
I want my brothers out out of the school because one priest there was so strict about me.
Is this an SSPX school? How do you know this NO priest?
It's good you want to protect your brother. Have you talked to your parents about what happened with this priest?
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Dear FirstAid,
For almost 2000 years the Catholic Church taught what Jesus taught, and never contradicted itself. When Vatican II happened, some bad men got control of the docuмent-writing, and changed much of what the Church always taught. BUT, the truth does not change! The SSPX still teaches what the Church always taught. The Novus Ordo "Newchurch" is the one that isn't even Catholic anymore! (Sorry if I sound like I'm "talking down" to you. I'm just trying to make the argument as clear and straightforward as possible.)
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I do not even know if SSPX are even Catholic anymore.
Find some theological reasons to support your assertions! If the SSPX are "not Catholic," then exactly, what, are they? And, if the SSPX priests cannot validly hear confessions, why is Rome giving SSPX priests the faculties to absolve certain excommunicable sins which are reserved to the Holy See?
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You will all have noticed that there have been quite a few interesting members join this forum recently. I guess that would explain firstaid and many others migrating from FE with there liberal bent.
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FirstAid is a DEFINITELY a teenager.
Teenagers generally go with the crowd.
The novus ordo does have approx. 1.2 billion allegedly enrolled members. But I can' t really vouch for worldwide numbers because accounting methods vary so wildly. And how could we really verify any numbers in a substantial way from Nigeria or even South America. Sometimes even American parishes have lousy bookkeeping.
In the U.S., there are approx. 70 million novus ordites. But those include all the baptized. When it comes to weekly Mass attendance (I know, the novus ordo has a worship service, not a Mass) the percentage is right around 20 percent.
The true count for novus ordites in the U.S. is around 14 million.
So, yes, 14 million novus ordites is still larger than the approx. 1 million Traditional Catholics so to a crowd following teen, these numbers determine truth.
Traditional Catholics, and the SSPX is in this group, follow the Catholic Faith as it was handed down all the way from the apostles.
Novus ordites are followers of a church invented by Guissepe Montini in the mid-1960's.
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Even if you accept the novus ordo. I doubt of that 14 million, even 1 million make regular use of the sacraments and truly believe in the real presence. So, the numbers are a little more even than what appears.
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Napoli,
My post was merely about numbers. The difference is clear to see.
The novus ordites who attend "mass" are all at a man-centered worship "experience" to either be seen or to hang out with other "friendly" people. Visit a novus ordo church on a Sunday morning, not to participate, but just to see all the vacant looks in people's eyes. They are so disconnected from Catholicism they wouldn't have a clue.
Notice after the service how everyone leaves at exactly the same time. It doesn't occur to any of them that there should be post-mass prayers.
The novus ordo is a spiritual wasteland.
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My parents did speak to the priest and the headmaster of the SSPX school I attended. The headmaster told them that he did not send anyone into have conversations to try and trick me into saying I was no longer Catholic or to try and record the conversations on a phone. The other priest said that the reason they did a room search was because the questions that I was asking were too "out of my depth" but they seemed quite happy after they spoke to him too. I did hide a Richard Dawkins book in my room whilst I was at the school. I felt I had the right to read the other side of the story in order to have a balanced point of view.
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I felt I had the right to read the other side of the story in order to have a balanced point of view.
I have read Dawkins' The God Delusion several times and have wrote about it on my blog:
http://unamsanctamecclesiamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2011/04/adam-eve-were-absolutely-real-as-was.html
There's nothing wrong with reading atheistic writings, if one realizes that there are "opposing sides" to their arguments. Some young people only read atheistic writings (which they, no doubt, get from their parents), and as a consequence, most of them are atheist! This is the problem with some unbelievers and heretics -- they are often excellent "sweet talkers" and can mislead many away from the One True Faith, at least until their fallacious arguments and reasoning is exposed. As many young people are not fully mature in their Catholic faith, I would not recommend reading atheistic authors, at least without the guidance of a spiritual advisor.
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I agree captain.
What I was trying to say is that the novus ordo church is not large. A billion is a ridiculous number. I believe there are adherents to that sect that want to find the truth and are attempting to live a holy life. We need to pray for that few million that they come into the traditional church before its too late.
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He seems truly concerned about his brother, let's do our best to help him here.
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My parents did speak to the priest and the headmaster of the SSPX school I attended. The headmaster told them that he did not send anyone into have conversations to try and trick me into saying I was no longer Catholic or to try and record the conversations on a phone. The other priest said that the reason they did a room search was because the questions that I was asking were too "out of my depth" but they seemed quite happy after they spoke to him too. I did hide a Richard Dawkins book in my room whilst I was at the school. I felt I had the right to read the other side of the story in order to have a balanced point of view.
So your parents spoke to the school when you told them your felt mistreated by the teacher, and the headmaster played it down?
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I think that the headmaster is excellent he is logical and relaxed but the housemaster can be uptight and if you get on the wrong side of him he is really awful to be around.
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...he gets flustered if he cannot answer questions. He can be quite intimidating. I am worried that if my brothers get onto the wrong side of him or if they ask questions that offend him in some way, they will not be treated fairly.
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You are 19? Where do you live? Have you finished high school?
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I was two years behind in my general education. So yes 19 and a bit behind
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How much do you have left to get your high school diploma? What kind of grades are you making? Where are you going to school? What are your current living arrangements?
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As Catholics, we should never read books by athesist authors. Read books about the saints and the Catholic Church. Read your bible. But stAy away from bad liberal literature that offends God
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As Catholics, we should never read books by athesist authors. Read books about the saints and the Catholic Church. Read your bible. But stAy away from bad liberal literature that offends God
I second that. Reading Atheist authors is a way to lose your faith. I can't believe Popes Pius the X, XI, or XII would have agreed with that.
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Napoli,
My post was merely about numbers. The difference is clear to see.
The novus ordites who attend "mass" are all at a man-centered worship "experience" to either be seen or to hang out with other "friendly" people. Visit a novus ordo church on a Sunday morning, not to participate, but just to see all the vacant looks in people's eyes. They are so disconnected from Catholicism they wouldn't have a clue.
Notice after the service how everyone leaves at exactly the same time. It doesn't occur to any of them that there should be post-mass prayers.
The novus ordo is a spiritual wasteland.
Sometimes there are one or two people who will stay and pray after a novus ordo Mass, sometimes even a woman who covers her head. Occasionally there is someone in a novus ordo parish who goes to Confession before receiving Communion, and who prays the Rosary. But such people are very rare, a small percentage of the parish. Certainly the large majority are boiled frogs.
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As Catholics, we should never read books by athesist authors. Read books about the saints and the Catholic Church. Read your bible. But stAy away from bad liberal literature that offends God
Atheists have nothing of substance to say, and if one is properly instructed, reading atheist authors will only serve to strengthen one's faith. Ask them sometime, "Why is there something as opposed to nothing?", or, "Did your neurons make you 'do that'?" If they are "still standing," start peppering them with the many miracles of the Catholic Faith from the Gospels onward, and if they remain unconvinced, at least you won't be.
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My parents did speak to the priest and the headmaster of the SSPX school I attended. The headmaster told them that he did not send anyone into have conversations to try and trick me into saying I was no longer Catholic or to try and record the conversations on a phone. The other priest said that the reason they did a room search was because the questions that I was asking were too "out of my depth" but they seemed quite happy after they spoke to him too. I did hide a Richard Dawkins book in my room whilst I was at the school. I felt I had the right to read the other side of the story in order to have a balanced point of view.
You want to balance Our Lord and His Precious Blood on one side with the atheist fad of the moment on the other?
Is this so that YOU can make up your mind? Using your very own reason?
FirstAid, you can't find God without God. Our Lord will only show Himself to you if you are worthy or if you have had some real super saints in your family tree who are praying for your soul right now.
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My parents did speak to the priest and the headmaster of the SSPX school I attended. The headmaster told them that he did not send anyone into have conversations to try and trick me into saying I was no longer Catholic or to try and record the conversations on a phone. The other priest said that the reason they did a room search was because the questions that I was asking were too "out of my depth" but they seemed quite happy after they spoke to him too. I did hide a Richard Dawkins book in my room whilst I was at the school. I felt I had the right to read the other side of the story in order to have a balanced point of view.
Well, when I was in school, I had the Satanic Bible in my locker just to get a "balanced point of view."
(http://files.sharenator.com/derp_derp-s500x375-134539.jpg)
:furtive: :stare: :fryingpan:
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LISTEN TO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING! You're a teenager, and you really have no idea what you're doing. How old are you, 15? I don't know man. The Church put out a forbidden book list back when Rome was Catholic, to stop people from losing their Faith over BAD BOOKS. Not because they wanted to stop you from getting a "balanced point of view," but because they cared about your ETERNAL SOUL, which could be lost by absorbing and God forbid, accepting, such tripe!
BURN that scuмbag Richard Dawkins book, and never pick up another one.
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My grades are C in every subject. I am 19 and have another 2 years of school to go. My last school pulled me down 2 years. My parents would like me to do a trade apprenticeship. I would like to try for a university degree.
I live with my grandmother. I ran away from home in the summer. She agrees with me about leaving home.
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If your grades are all C I would take your parent's advice and go into the trades. Unless you get a decent degree you are likely to simply make yourself overqualified and underemployed like many people with toilet roll "university" degrees.
If indeed you pass at all. Which, with C average grades, you are far from certain to do.
Go to North Dakota and get yourself a job in the oil and gas field, start at the bottom and work your butt off. By 23 you will have some useful skills and experience which mean a lot more than any higher education. Play your cards right and at 30 your could have a desk job "consulting" or inspecting for safety.