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Offline DominvsSabaoth

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my heart races with joy!
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2013, 02:49:22 PM »
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  • People will listen if you are associated with the one true church.  The church is a lady, and right now she's wearing too much ugly make up.  We need to get her to a sink to wash up, but she won't unless we tell her how beautiful she used to be


    Offline TCat

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    my heart races with joy!
    « Reply #16 on: September 02, 2013, 03:03:51 PM »
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  • Well,
    I wont say that the people who go to the Vatican 2 church don't want to hear tradition, because many do.

    But
    I will say that you wont be allowed act in a traditional manner, now that Vatican 2 is elevated to the level of an absolute.
    You will be suppressed and probably kicked out of seminary for not being liberal enough.

    But let me know what happens to you, because I had this same idea myself not to long ago. I just finally made my mind up to not compromise and join in with the other people who also do not compromise.

    You will find that if you ever break away from the Vatican 2 church, that you face an abyss, but the apostles also faced an abyss, and they stayed true.
    The Vatican 2 church did not stay true, and it will continue to go anti-Catholic as time goes by. I don't think it is out of the question that they will start to use women as priests in the next 20 years or so. Chastity for religious also will be done away with.

    If the "church" does certain things, then they do not come from the true church.

    But let me know what happens to you. I will pray for you as well.

    Btw.
    This is a Benedictine exorcism prayer:
    "Vade retro Satana! Numquam suade mihi vana!
    Sunt mala quae libas!
    Ipse veneum bibas!!"

    ( Begone Satan! Don't tempt me with your vanities!
    What you offer me is evil!
    Drink the poison yourself!)

    Pax+++
    Crux Sacra Sit Mihi Lux! Ne Draco Sit Mihi Dux!


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #17 on: September 02, 2013, 03:17:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
    Quote from: TCat
    Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
    But I can go inside and say the ef, even make the no look more like the ef. I'll fire the EMs and tell the altar girls to beat it.


    I also applied for the novus ordo conciliar church priesthood with the same ideas as you, but when I learned more about how the church hierarchy hates tradition, as in, the way it allows only fake traditional masses, but still with the same Vatican 2 poison at every opportunity, I changed my mind and now research the CMRI.

    Don't make some big mistake you will regret, go join the SSPX or the CMRI, at least then you will be ordained properly by valid bishops.
    As a priest in the conciliar church, you will have to mention the pope at your mass and in your sermons. Are you going to sell all the faithful out by propaganda for everything he does? He is not the pope. Look into the matter. He is a formal heritic and hates the Catholic faith, he is probably a freemason.

    You cant change the church from the inside when its authorities will suppress any traditional catholic faith in you. Besides you will be placed amidst fαɢɢօts.
    All those who stayed as priests in the novus ordo despite all that has gone on cannot justify their position, they have sold us out just for the sake of a uniform.

    Go join CMRI.
    I wish there was cmri in my country. Look into the matter before you make a big mistake and incur grave sin for idolatry and heresy and membership of a non catholic cult.

    TCat.  Are you aware the CMRI is a sedevacantist group.  One of their members declared himself an antipope.  Just research it.  His name was Francis Schuckardt.  He was their founder.  The order is built on insanity and nonsense.  If your going that route you might as well become a feminist Episcopalian vicar who opposes traditional marriage.  The FSSP is an option, as is the ICKSP.  But not the CMRI ever, and probably not the SSPX until they are reconciled with Rome.
      Do not join the CMRI, they are sedevacantists.  The see of rome is occupied by Franciscus Primus.  The CMRI is the same as David Bawden and Palmar de troya.  Do not have anything to do with the CMRI
      The SSPX and the mainstream church are far better options



    Whoa whoa whoa!  

    1) They're a sedevacantist group, so what?  This isn't Catholic Answers or Fisheaters.  You're on a board with sedevacantists, sedevacantist sympathizers, and traditional Catholics who are more concerened with whether or not someone is Catholic than if they think there's a pope.  

    2) The sins of Schuckhardt are the sins of Schuckhardt, not the sins of the CMRI.  Funny that you, who claim loyalty to apostates as being representative of the One, True Church would malign a traditional group because it's founder was a lunatic.  

    3) Go ahead and prove 'their order' is built on nonesense.

    4) The idea that you would conflate a traditional society with feminist episcopalians shows that you are either ignorant, or of bad will, and judging by your plan to 'infiltrate' the Novus Ordo and make it more 'EF' I'm going to go with ignorant.  This is such a base and calumnious charge, and you ought to be ashamed.

    5) FSSP and ICKSP are compromisers with modernism.  Allegiance to 'Rome' is meaningless when Rome is filled with heretics and apostates.  

    6) Again with the ridiculous comparisons of CMRI to David Bawden and the Palmarians.  You simply don't know what you're talking about, you need to take a step back and spend some time reading about these issues.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    my heart races with joy!
    « Reply #18 on: September 02, 2013, 03:19:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: TCat
    Well,
    I wont say that the people who go to the Vatican 2 church don't want to hear tradition, because many do.

    But
    I will say that you wont be allowed act in a traditional manner, now that Vatican 2 is elevated to the level of an absolute.
    You will be suppressed and probably kicked out of seminary for not being liberal enough.

    But let me know what happens to you, because I had this same idea myself not to long ago. I just finally made my mind up to not compromise and join in with the other people who also do not compromise.

    You will find that if you ever break away from the Vatican 2 church, that you face an abyss, but the apostles also faced an abyss, and they stayed true.
    The Vatican 2 church did not stay true, and it will continue to go anti-Catholic as time goes by. I don't think it is out of the question that they will start to use women as priests in the next 20 years or so. Chastity for religious also will be done away with.

    If the "church" does certain things, then they do not come from the true church.

    But let me know what happens to you. I will pray for you as well.

    Btw.
    This is a Benedictine exorcism prayer:
    "Vade retro Satana! Numquam suade mihi vana!
    Sunt mala quae libas!
    Ipse veneum bibas!!"

    ( Begone Satan! Don't tempt me with your vanities!
    What you offer me is evil!
    Drink the poison yourself!)

    Pax+++

    Ok...I recognize that the church is in a time of trouble, but guess what? There are many diocesan priests who are excited about the tradition of the church, the new generation of seminarians are more conservative, more orthodox, and some are more traditional.
      Modernism is a fad.  Modern alludes to the present.  Tradition alludes to what is forever good, and forever right.
       Even if you are pessimistic, TCat, our church is improving, it may still be run by modernists, but we got good theology from BXVI.  He was a fan of the tlm.  Francis is a social justice fanatic. he wont undo it

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #19 on: September 02, 2013, 03:20:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
    People will listen if you are associated with the one true church.  The church is a lady, and right now she's wearing too much ugly make up.  We need to get her to a sink to wash up, but she won't unless we tell her how beautiful she used to be


    Laymen do not affect the Church.  She is what she is, and your comparison of her as wearing ugly make-up shows that you, like Michael Voris and many others, view the crisis as one of cosmetics; the result of a few dissident bishops here and there, but nothing that can't be fixed by a traditional airbrush.  The Novus Ordo is fine, VII is fine, the 1983 CIC is fine, they just all need a little bit of trad varnish.  Dear friend, you are sadly mistaken.  The rot is substantial, and the Novus Ordo along with all it's pomps is a violent break from the Catholic religion.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #20 on: September 02, 2013, 03:26:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Don't discern it at a Novus Ordo seminary.  The ones who aren't queers are ultimately modernists, and if you persevere in your studies to become ordained, the person performing the ceremony is a doubtful bishop and he will ordain with a suspect rite.  

    No, no. you guys don't quite understand. My vocations director regularly celebrates the tlm! I want to recieve formation at OLG Seminary and be ordained in the tlm to serve the church! Killing modernism from the inside...I'll bring new orthodoxy and breadth of teaching to my diocese! i'm so happy. i'm stil in high school, but one day...


    Your heart is in the right place, but the method that you are set on will destroy you, as it has destroyed everyone up to this point.

    Modernism?  Where do you think you'll find modernism?  It is the very foundation of the New Church.  It is not simply a heresy that a few dissident bishops and liberal clergyman adhere to privately.  It is the public policy of every single New Church official, and it permeates some worse than others.  VII and the Novus Ordo are the height of the Modernist revolution against the Church.  This program is the most evil and insidious weapon that Satan could turn against God's Church.  There can be no compromise with VII and the NO, and if you take the New Church seminary route, not only will you be forced to compromise with these terrible doctrines and liturgy, you will be forced to appreciate and acknowledge their legitimacy.  God forbid!  
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    « Reply #21 on: September 02, 2013, 03:49:49 PM »
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  • I recognize their legitimacy, I just protest the fact they are legitimate. The NO sacraments are valid, albeit a poor reflection of the teaching of the church.  The NO mass is both usually irreverent and usually involves lukewarm teaching.  The people of the church deserve more than that. I will not be involved in the fringe which wants to keep such good things out of the VII church

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #22 on: September 02, 2013, 04:05:31 PM »
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  • N.B., these are not rhetorical questions that follow.  Please answer them.

    Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
    I recognize their legitimacy, I just protest the fact they are legitimate.


    You recognize they are legitimate and you protest that they are legitimate?  Which is it?


    Quote
    The NO sacraments are valid, albeit a poor reflection of the teaching of the church.


    And has been said before, validity is not the issue.  Eastern Schismatics have valid sacraments.  Are they Catholic?  If not, explain what the Novus Ordo has that the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom doesn't.

    Quote
    The NO mass is both usually irreverent and usually involves lukewarm teaching.  The people of the church deserve more than that. I will not be involved in the fringe which wants to keep such good things out of the VII church


    Since you brought up the CMRI and the SSPX, why don't you show what doctrines they believe that contradict the Catholic faith.  What you (correctly) call the VII Church is not the Catholic Church, because it has substantially different teachings, including religious liberty and ecuмenism.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    « Reply #23 on: September 02, 2013, 04:10:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan

    N.B., these are not rhetorical questions that follow.  Please answer them.

    Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
    I recognize their legitimacy, I just protest the fact they are legitimate.


    You recognize they are legitimate and you protest that they are legitimate?  Which is it?


    Quote
    The NO sacraments are valid, albeit a poor reflection of the teaching of the church.


    And has been said before, validity is not the issue.  Eastern Schismatics have valid sacraments.  Are they Catholic?  If not, explain what the Novus Ordo has that the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom doesn't.

    Quote
    The NO mass is both usually irreverent and usually involves lukewarm teaching.  The people of the church deserve more than that. I will not be involved in the fringe which wants to keep such good things out of the VII church


    Since you brought up the CMRI and the SSPX, why don't you show what doctrines they believe that contradict the Catholic faith.  What you (correctly) call the VII Church is not the Catholic Church, because it has substantially different teachings, including religious liberty and ecuмenism.

    see here: http://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/docuмents/refutations/rjmi/rr20_trip_to_cmri_sspx.pdf
    refutation of sspx and cmri.  I don't agree with all their points

    The novus ordo in and of itself isn't bad if it is celebrated using the latin, ad orientem position, and taking all routes available to avoid lay participation

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #24 on: September 02, 2013, 04:13:38 PM »
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  • I'm guessing that you linked to Ibranyi?  Cathinfo breaks up links to his site.  Because he is a lunatic.  He is your authority for maligning traditional Catholics?  I think even you know that is laughable.

    You still need to answer the other questions regarding legitimacy, and also the Eastern Schismatics.  You would attend the liturgies of Schismatics, right?  I mean, they're valid.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Stubborn

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    « Reply #25 on: September 02, 2013, 04:15:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: DominvsSabaoth

    The novus ordo in and of itself isn't bad if it is celebrated using the latin, ad orientem position, and taking all routes available to avoid lay participation


    Overall, it's short and easy to read: The Great Sacrilege

    Well worth the half a day or so that it'll take you to read it - please, do read it.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    « Reply #26 on: September 02, 2013, 04:20:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    I'm guessing that you linked to Ibranyi?  Cathinfo breaks up links to his site.  Because he is a lunatic.  He is your authority for maligning traditional Catholics?  I think even you know that is laughable.

    You still need to answer the other questions regarding legitimacy, and also the Eastern Schismatics.  You would attend the liturgies of Schismatics, right?  I mean, they're valid.

    Yea, sure I would attend the liturgies of schismatics.  If it was my only choice.  I have a spiritual need for the tlm, so if the sspx or a reasonable independent chapel was my only choice, i'd go there.  I however, am a son of NO parents.  They are very patient with my traditional Catholicism, and even my lectures.  Also, the eastern schismatics have valid episcopal sucession.  They are schismatics, and that is to be admonished, but they are part of the church, as are all baptized people who are not heathens

    Those who pretend to be baptized, but are not valid Christians include:
    Jehovah's Witnesses
    Mormons
    Palmarians
    etc

    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    « Reply #27 on: September 02, 2013, 04:27:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    Quote from: DominvsSabaoth

    The novus ordo in and of itself isn't bad if it is celebrated using the latin, ad orientem position, and taking all routes available to avoid lay participation


    Overall, it's short and easy to read: The Great Sacrilege

    Well worth the half a day or so that it'll take you to read it - please, do read it.

    I looked at it.  But I saw the title "Chapter Four part one: The "New Mass" of Baal" and decided no

    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    « Reply #28 on: September 02, 2013, 04:36:06 PM »
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  • In all honesty,  I believe most sspv and cmri traditionalists are earnest and good willed.  I just believe that on occasions, hate for the magisterium of the visible church overshadows their virtues

    Offline DominvsSabaoth

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    « Reply #29 on: September 02, 2013, 04:39:48 PM »
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  • after looking further into ibranyi, he hates more people than the dimonds