[ServusSpiritusSancti]

Prayers for the return of Alex117 to the Catholic Faith.  

[Sede Catholic]

Prayers for the return of Alex117 to the Catholic Faith.  

 :applause:

Dear Servus,
That is a very good post indeed.
Let's all say a prayer for poor Alex117. He seemed like a nice person. It is very sad that Alex117 lost the Faith.  

[Exfish]

On SD, I'm pretty sure GottmitunsAlex and tmw pass. I wasn't surprised to learn today that tmw is stepping down as moderator over on SD. He's undoubtedly bothered by Kaesekopf's feminism, among other things.

Maybe Hawaii Five-O as well. He's definitely anti-Jєωιѕн, and seems to be anti-feminist. I don't think being married to a nonwhite should necessary dispose one towards embracing today's PC race politics. I'd like to think that were I married to a nonwhite I would still have politically incorrect views on race.

He said recently that he only just became aware of this forum.

Heinrich might be an exception as well.

Would JoeVoxxPop from FE fit the bill?

[Exfish]

:roll-laugh1:

This thread is wonderful. Rather than anyone actually citing why Orthodoxy is not the truth, my original post is deleted and I am accused of never having any faith at all!

Thank God for people like Servus, Jen, and Sede who, rather than acting like smug bastards, actually reached out to me via PM and have offered prayers on my behalf. Jen, who must drive three hours to Mass one way and cannot go often, has even offered a Mass on behalf. As for the rest of you, do you think I'm going to come back to traditional Catholicism by being belittled and accused of being mentally a child who never had any faith? You should be ashamed of yourselves for acting in such an un-Christ-like manner.

Going Orthodox was not a decision that I made lightly. This is my eternal soul that is on the line here - I did not sit down and say, "You know what, I really prefer it if all of my priests have beards, so I'm go Orthodox!!!" I personally made my decision after studying the docuмents of Vatican I in relation to papal authority and infallibility (because I was on the edge of going sede), and then reading books on why the Orthodox do not recognize papal authority at all. Eventually, I found myself agreeing with the Orthodox view on the Papacy, rather than the sedevacantist or SSPX view, and after much prayer and research, I decided that Orthodoxy was ultimately the truth. In my original post (before it was deleted lol), I told you all that I would explain my reasoning if Matthew gave me permission to do so, but seeing as how Matthew saw it fit to instead delete my post, I'm guessing that for me to speak would be too scandalous and might - gasp! - plant seeds of doubt in others. If Catholicism is the one true faith, why the fear? Let me speak my piece. I would actually like to hear you all rebuke Orthodoxy.

Since I'm sure this post is going to be deleted, I will be more than happy to PM any of you my reasoning for leaving Catholicism. Likewise, if you really want to be asked hard questions about your faith in the Papacy, read the first three chapters of The Papacy by Fr. Vladimir Guettée. If anyone here can rebuke Fr. Vladimir's reasoning that he makes in the first three, short chapters, that would do much in bringing me back to Catholicism.

The Papacy: http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/guettee_thepapacy.pdf

Converting are we?  I do hope this forum stays Catholic. I am a newbie here from an ugly forum thinking this forum is a Catholic one. It looks like an Ecuмenical one. Cool. Thanks for the links. I'll read into it.

[Graham]

Having read the first and second chapters, Alex, it is unimpressive, relying on what amounts to obfuscation and sleight of hand to quibble with the crystal-clear words of Christ himself in Matthew 16:17-19.

As an example, take your author's claim that in Greek and Latin the name given to Peter (petro, petrus) is masculine gender, while the Rock referred to by Christ is feminine (petra). This minor disjunct is somehow taken to demonstrate that there is no distinct connection between Christ calling Peter petro and immediately after referring to the petra on which he founds his Church. On the face of it, that's an extremely outlandish conclusion. But the clincher is that in Aramaic, the language Christ spoke, the words are identical (cepha). To discover this all you would have to consult is the online Catholic Encyclopedia page on the Pope. As a result, one has to wonder how much homework you did on this man's claims.

The greater number of tile Fathers of the Church have not admitted the play upon words that our Ultramontanes attribute to Jesus Christ in applying to St. Peter these words, "And upon this rock I will build my Church." [...] As for the few old writers who admitted this play upon words, it must be remembered that none of them interpreted the text in a manner favorable to the Papal sovereignty, nor drew from it the exaggerated consequences of this system.

As for what the Church Fathers thought of that passage, pay attention to the words of Basil the Great, John Chrysostom, and Gregory of nαzιanzen - who are not some 'old writers' but the 'Three Holy Hierarchs' of the East.

He saith to him, "Feed my sheep". Why does He pass over the others and speak of the sheep to Peter? He was the chosen one of the Apostles, the mouth of the disciples, the head of the choir. For this reason Paul went up to see him rather than the others. And also to show him that he must have confidence now that his denial had been purged away. He entrusts him with the rule [prostasia] over the brethren. . . . If anyone should say "Why then was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?", I should reply that He made Peter the teacher not of that see but of the whole world.

Seest thou that of the disciples of Christ, all of whom were great and deserving of choice, one is called a rock, and is entrusted with the foundations of the Church.

And when he, the instrument of such and so great a judgment; he the minister of the so great wrath of God upon a sinner; that blessed Peter, who was preferred before all the other disciples; who alone received a greater testimony and blessing than the rest; he to whom were entrusted the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Hope this little bit helps sway you, though undoubtedly prayers will be more efficacious.

[Jaynek]

Would JoeVoxxPop from FE fit the bill?

He was banned from FE a while ago and posts on SD now.

[Graham]

Alex, if you wouldn't mind, which of Guettee's objections do you find most convincing? There's an entire bookful of them and I'd like to cut to the chase. Looking forward to it.

[Exfish]

Would JoeVoxxPop from FE fit the bill?

He was banned from FE a while ago and posts on SD now.

He's probably in the will-ban list. They banned three or four members today.

[Jaynek]

Would JoeVoxxPop from FE fit the bill?

He was banned from FE a while ago and posts on SD now.

He's probably in the will-ban list. They banned three or four members today.

Two of the three posters banned at SD were more liberal types.  The third was only banned for 3 days for  being uncharitable.  He was taking the position that Muslims are a greater threat than Jews, although I doubt that had anything to do being banned - just the way he was talking.

[Telesphorus]

I would just like to point out the danger of claiming "the religion is false if sedevacantism is true" - what happened to Alex is a good example of how the dogmatic anti-sede position threatens the Faith of Catholics.

Archbishop Lefebvre said it was possible sedevacantism was true.  If he believed that then he believed it was not incompatible with the Catholic Faith.

The dogmatic anti-sedes often make arguments that would make sedevacantism an impossible position, no matter what a claimant to the Papacy said or did.

If a man was not really Pope but was believed to be, this would contribute to wrecking the Faith of many people: including those who buy into the neotraditional line (it's neo-traditional, it's not what the Archbishop taught!) that sedevacantism is necessarily schismatic and even heretical.

[Matto]

Archbishop Lefebvre said it was possible sedevacantism was true.  If he believed that then he believed it was not incompatible with the Catholic Faith.

I agree with the Archbishop. Though I do not say the Pope is not the Pope, I understand that he might not be and that sedevacantism might be true, so I am not one of those SSPX supporters who are anti-sedevacantist.

[Exfish]

Would JoeVoxxPop from FE fit the bill?

He was banned from FE a while ago and posts on SD now.

He's probably in the will-ban list. They banned three or four members today.

Two of the three posters banned at SD were more liberal types.  The third was only banned for 3 days for  being uncharitable.  He was taking the position that Muslims are a greater threat than Jews, although I doubt that had anything to do being banned - just the way he was talking.

Now add Patrick to that list. That's 30% of their membership right there.
 

[Jaynek]

Would JoeVoxxPop from FE fit the bill?

He was banned from FE a while ago and posts on SD now.

He's probably in the will-ban list. They banned three or four members today.

Two of the three posters banned at SD were more liberal types.  The third was only banned for 3 days for  being uncharitable.  He was taking the position that Muslims are a greater threat than Jews, although I doubt that had anything to do being banned - just the way he was talking.

Now add Patrick to that list. That's 30% of their membership right there.
 

Patrick was not banned.  He says that he is not posting there anymore, but his hero Mithrandylan did not follow through with this, so I will wait to see what Patrick really does.

There are well over 200 members at SD and they have been steadily growing.  Why are you making untrue claims?

[Charlemagne]

I would just like to point out the danger of claiming "the religion is false if sedevacantism is true" - what happened to Alex is a good example of how the dogmatic anti-sede position threatens the Faith of Catholics.

Archbishop Lefebvre said it was possible sedevacantism was true.  If he believed that then he believed it was not incompatible with the Catholic Faith.

The dogmatic anti-sedes often make arguments that would make sedevacantism an impossible position, no matter what a claimant to the Papacy said or did.

If a man was not really Pope but was believed to be, this would contribute to wrecking the Faith of many people: including those who buy into the neotraditional line (it's neo-traditional, it's not what the Archbishop taught!) that sedevacantism is necessarily schismatic and even heretical.

:applause:

[Exfish]

Would JoeVoxxPop from FE fit the bill?

He was banned from FE a while ago and posts on SD now.

He's probably in the will-ban list. They banned three or four members today.

Two of the three posters banned at SD were more liberal types.  The third was only banned for 3 days for  being uncharitable.  He was taking the position that Muslims are a greater threat than Jews, although I doubt that had anything to do being banned - just the way he was talking.

Now add Patrick to that list. That's 30% of their membership right there.
 

Patrick was not banned.  He says that he is not posting there anymore, but his hero Mithrandylan did not follow through with this, so I will wait to see what Patrick really does.

There are well over 200 members at SD and they have been steadily growing.  Why are you making untrue claims?

I never said he was banned.
And as for the percentage figure, it was figurative.