[Jaynek]

Jayne, you said those things?

Here is the comment I made about the Association of Hebrew Catholics in context:

There is a real problem in the Church around this topic.  Just this week I was at a NO Mass and one of the prayers of the faithful was "That God may strengthen the Jєωιѕн people to keep the Law that He has given them."  I was very upset and even moreso because I knew it was not an isolated incident. There are theologians and even bishops teaching that Jews are saved through the Old Covenant, so it is no wonder this heresy is being spread at the parish level. (Although I am still adding that parish to my "won't go there" list.)

The SSPX and trads in general have a much better grasp of what the Church really teaches about Jews than the average Catholic does.  Another group that gets it right is the Association of Hebrew Catholics, a group of Catholics of Jєωιѕн ethnicity.  Here is one of there position papers:
http://hebrewcatholic.org/FaithandTheology/Reflections-Covenant-Mission/catholicteaching.html
I think it must be common for Catholics who have converted from Judaism to realize just how important conversion is and to escape being fooled by this nonsense pervading the Church.

I cited a single specific article at this site which, like the SSPX, "gets it right" that Jews are in need of conversion and are not saved by being Jews.  It was not a general recommendation of the organization.  

Later, when I found out about some of their other positions I wrote:

I did not know that this group promotes celebrating Jєωιѕн holidays.  Thanks for letting me know.  I have been in a few debates on CAF explaining why Catholics should not participate in seders.

and, in another post:

They do "get it right" that Jews need to become Catholic, but I can see now that they get some other things wrong, like celebrating Jєωιѕн holidays.  Thank you for telling me about this.  I  also did not like the preponderance of Vatican II (and later) quotes that I noticed at their site.  It bugs me when people write as if the Church started 50 years ago.

I rejected the Jєωιѕн religion a long time ago when I first became a Christian.  I do not keep kosher, celebrate Jєωιѕн holidays, have my sons circuмcised, etc.  Judaism is a false religion that does not lead to salvation.

 

[Jaynek]

From Jaynek to everybody regarding Impy the tranny:
The point that you seem to be missing is that there is reason to think that this is not a "gentleman".  God did not make Clare a male in the way that He normally makes males.

It is your opinion.  You appear to be denying the existence of transsɛҳuąƖism, something which the Church recognizes.

In many cases, the reality of transsɛҳuąƖism is demonstrably a physiological abnormality.  There is a Vatican instruction that treats it as different from ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.  Your insistence on equating them is coming from you, not Church teaching.

TranssɛҳuąƖism is have a sense that one is other than the sex that one appears to be.  Often there is a physiological basis for this sense

I have a friend who went from Christopher to Christine (which is how I picked up more information on this than most people know) and she really got into these things after she changed.  I would ask her for make-up advice.

 It is information that is not suitable for the general public.  

The reason this docuмent was issued sub secretum is also the reason that people should not be judging Clare about this.  She consulted with a priest.  Nobody here is her spiritual director and a "trial by forum" is not appropriate.

All of Impy's posts show a practicing Catholic who accepts and obeys Church teaching, including that on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.  I have never seen any reason to question her honesty or Catholicism.


Just think how shocking it would have been, if she had not gone through the sweet potato stage.  At least this way we could get used to it gradually.



Leave. Just leave. It's posters like you that start the rot and decay of Catholicism. Got to your hebrewcatholic.org people. Just stay away from real Catholics.

You have taken a series of unrelated sentences from a variety of posts out of context and listed them.  I am not sure how anyone is supposed to figure out my position from this.  One thing that is missing from the list is a sentence that says "I approve of transsɛҳuąƖs."  The reason such a sentence is not there is that it is not my position.

Only one person has the authority to tell me to leave this forum.  That is Matthew.  I suggest you take up the matter with him.  If he wants to ban me for comments that I have made on another forum, I certainly respect his right to do that.

[Jaynek]

The Association for Hebrew Catholics. This is abhorrent Judaizing. The idea of keeping the demonic тαℓмυdic festivities sickens me. It's gross heresy. You are, then, a bloody marrano.

I do not keep Jєωιѕн holidays.  I did not realize that AHC promoted this when I wrote about them.

As for the perverts, well, you consort with perverts (Christopher...Christine) and defend them. You refer to another pervert ('Impy') by his chosen 'name' and his, God forgive me, chosen 'sex'. Truly abhorrent. No Catholic can possibly 'support' someone chopping himself up with a knife so he can be buggered by another man!

Christopher/Christine was not a pervert.  He/she had a chromosome abnormality and was neither XX nor XY.  Yes, I defend people with medical conditions from being called perverts.

[Jaynek]

Btw, the way both she and Vox justify backing Impy's sex change is by claiming he was actually a woman born in a male body, so it isn't a sex change, just the correction of a birth defect. Despite the fact that brain scans of post mortem transsɛҳuąƖs showed results between male and female, NOT female; and since they were post mortem, you get into the nature vs nurture argument, among so many other good points there's no need to rehash.

I was not "backing Impy's sex change".  I never claimed that "he was actually a woman born in a woman's body."  I said that science was not yet conclusive either way on this sort of question.

[ServusSpiritusSancti]

Wow, SD doesn't allow people to use the term "neo-SSPX". Unbelievable!

That forum is so pathetic.

[Pheo]

I was not "backing Impy's sex change".  I never claimed that "he was actually a woman born in a woman's body."  I said that science was not yet conclusive either way on this sort of question.

You might be able to forgive people for having that impression though.  The science, as we currently understand it, seems conclusive.  As you know I've studied many of these issues in depth for my licensing exams.  And the fact that you and some other posters started referring to Impy as a "she" seems to imply that you accept his "transition" on some level.

From my point of view, referring to Impy as a woman or with feminine pronouns is nothing other than a bald-faced lie.  He's a man, even if he did have himself surgically and pharmacalogically mutilated.

[Exfish]

Jayne, you said those things?

Here is the comment I made about the Association of Hebrew Catholics in context:

There is a real problem in the Church around this topic.  Just this week I was at a NO Mass and one of the prayers of the faithful was "That God may strengthen the Jєωιѕн people to keep the Law that He has given them."  I was very upset and even moreso because I knew it was not an isolated incident. There are theologians and even bishops teaching that Jews are saved through the Old Covenant, so it is no wonder this heresy is being spread at the parish level. (Although I am still adding that parish to my "won't go there" list.)

The SSPX and trads in general have a much better grasp of what the Church really teaches about Jews than the average Catholic does.  Another group that gets it right is the Association of Hebrew Catholics, a group of Catholics of Jєωιѕн ethnicity.  Here is one of there position papers:
http://hebrewcatholic.org/FaithandTheology/Reflections-Covenant-Mission/catholicteaching.html
I think it must be common for Catholics who have converted from Judaism to realize just how important conversion is and to escape being fooled by this nonsense pervading the Church.

Later, when I found out about some of their other positions I wrote:

I did not know that this group promotes celebrating Jєωιѕн holidays.  Thanks for letting me know.  I have been in a few debates on CAF explaining why Catholics should not participate in seders.

and, in another post:

They do "get it right" that Jews need to become Catholic, but I can see now that they get some other things wrong, like celebrating Jєωιѕн holidays.  Thank you for telling me about this.  I  also did not like the preponderance of Vatican II (and later) quotes that I noticed at their site.  It bugs me when people write as if the Church started 50 years ago.

I rejected the Jєωιѕн religion a long time ago when I first became a Christian.  I do not keep kosher, celebrate Jєωιѕн holidays, have my sons circuмcised, etc.  Judaism is a false religion that does not lead to salvation.

 

Having said all that, greeted a new member on a different forum with this:

« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2013, 07:09:AM »
Hi Chestertonian. Welcome to FE.  As Impy said, I was raised Jєωιѕн too, so I can relate to some of what you have said about this.  If you have not already discovered it, I recommend that you check out the Association of Hebrew Catholics.  http://hebrewcatholic.org/  I am not posting much during Lent, but feel free to PM me any time.  I check my PMs every day.  


Then later in the day you come into our forum, read the posts, caught red handed.
Then you immediately go back, and at 2pm and write:

« Reply #10 on: Today at 02:06 PM »
I have discovered some things about the site I mentioned above such that I would no longer recommend it to anyone.  It still might be interesting, but take it with a grain of salt.

You are oily and sly. You have been caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
Now it's 3 lies regarding just this topic....
Please leave and stay on SD or FE. They gladly have you while they ban the good members that call out snakes like you.

I'll be praying for you. For a real conversion. Desist with your hebrewcatholic.org crap.

[wallflower]

I was not "backing Impy's sex change".  I never claimed that "he was actually a woman born in a woman's body."  I said that science was not yet conclusive either way on this sort of question.

You might be able to forgive people for having that impression though.  The science, as we currently understand it, seems conclusive.  As you know I've studied many of these issues in depth for my licensing exams.  And the fact that you and some other posters started referring to Impy as a "she" seems to imply that you accept his "transition" on some level.

From my point of view, referring to Impy as a woman or with feminine pronouns is nothing other than a bald-faced lie.  He's a man, even if he did have himself surgically and pharmacalogically mutilated.

Yes, for anyone paying attention, there is always a misstep between words and actions. Jayne you were a bit more conservative about the birth defect part than Vox was and when pressed, you stick to the claim that the evidence is "inconclusive". However, your actions are conclusive. You call him Clare and use feminine pronouns and during the discussion leaned heavily on those quotes exfish brought up, repeating that there are real physiological conditions out there, a fact that no one debated. The debate was does HE suffer from them and the facts as he revealed them were that he does not. Nor is there Church teaching that allows us to go along with it.

This chameleon effect from forum to forum and day to day is chronic and dishonest. It's largely why I am not active on SD. I think a few people have tried to warn KK and although there seems to be some sort of "arrangement" it's just not enough for me. It's distracting at best.

My favorite from not long ago was one day you said you think +Williamson is very disobedient and within 24-48 hours, maybe even the same dang day!you were "defending" him from someone calling him names, saying you consider him to be quite holy.  

:stare: Someone who is quite holy isn't also very disobedient. I almost had more respect for the person calling him names, at least they were consistent in their position!

 

[Jaynek]

I was not "backing Impy's sex change".  I never claimed that "he was actually a woman born in a woman's body."  I said that science was not yet conclusive either way on this sort of question.

You might be able to forgive people for having that impression though.  The science, as we currently understand it, seems conclusive.  As you know I've studied many of these issues in depth for my licensing exams.  And the fact that you and some other posters started referring to Impy as a "she" seems to imply that you accept his "transition" on some level.

From my point of view, referring to Impy as a woman or with feminine pronouns is nothing other than a bald-faced lie.  He's a man, even if he did have himself surgically and pharmacalogically mutilated.

I understand that people disagree with me and have a low opinion of me and I do not hold this against them.

There is no Church teaching that says what pronouns we ought to use with people who have had sex changes.  In the absence of such teaching, we have to figure it out for ourselves.  I did my best.  I also asked my spiritual director and he said it was OK to use feminine pronouns in this case.

[Jaynek]

Having said all that, greeted a new member on a different forum with this:
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2013, 07:09:AM »
Hi Chestertonian. Welcome to FE.  As Impy said, I was raised Jєωιѕн too, so I can relate to some of what you have said about this.  If you have not already discovered it, I recommend that you check out the Association of Hebrew Catholics.  http://hebrewcatholic.org/  I am not posting much during Lent, but feel free to PM me any time.  I check my PMs every day.  


Then later in the day you come into our forum, read the posts, caught red handed.
Then you immediately go back, and at 2pm and write:

« Reply #10 on: Today at 02:06 PM »
I have discovered some things about the site I mentioned above such that I would no longer recommend it to anyone.  It still might be interesting, but take it with a grain of salt.

You are oily and sly. You have been caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
Now it's 3 lies regarding just this topic....
Please leave and stay on SD or FE. They gladly have you while they ban the good members that call out snakes like you.

I'll be praying for you. For a real conversion. Desist with your hebrewcatholic.org crap.

I had forgotten that I had recommended that site to anyone.  Once I was reminded, I tried to repair my mistake.  I'm not sure why you have a problem with this.

Thank you for your prayers.  

[Pheo]

There is no Church teaching that says what pronouns we ought to use with people who have had sex changes.

But there is Church teaching which tells us to be truthful in our words and deeds - Our Lord was very clear on this too.  Impy is a man and it's untruthful to claim otherwise.

This is exactly why I left FE.  I refuse to lie and/or submit to the lie that Vox and Impy have foisted on that sad forum.

I did my best.  I also asked my spiritual director and he said it was OK to use feminine pronouns in this case.

I don't think you have any malicious intent, but obviously I think you're wrong.  I also believe that this priest was wrong and misguided to have given you the advice that he did.  I assure you that I could find many priests who would disagree with him on this matter...and both sides can't be right.

[Jaynek]

This chameleon effect from forum to forum and day to day is chronic and dishonest. It's largely why I am not active on SD. I think a few people have tried to warn KK and although there seems to be some sort of "arrangement" it's just not enough for me. It's distracting at best.
 

KK does not allow me to discuss the transsɛҳuąƖism topic on SD and I obey him.  I know that I will be banned if I break any rules or say anything against Catholic teaching.  I dare say he allows me to post because he knows that he has me under control.

Similarly, Matthew allows me to post here.  I am not sure what difference people are seeing in these situations.

[Jaynek]

There is no Church teaching that says what pronouns we ought to use with people who have had sex changes.

But there is Church teaching which tells us to be truthful in our words and deeds - Our Lord was very clear on this too.  Impy is a man and it's untruthful to claim otherwise.

This is exactly why I left FE.  I refuse to lie and/or submit to the lie that Vox and Impy have foisted on that sad forum.

I did my best.  I also asked my spiritual director and he said it was OK to use feminine pronouns in this case.

I don't think you have any malicious intent, but obviously I think you're wrong.  I also believe that this priest was wrong and misguided to have given you the advice that he did.  I assure you that I could find many priests who would disagree with him on this matter...and both sides can't be right.

It is possible that I am wrong so I cannot hold it against you for thinking so.  Thank you for acknowledging that I do not have any malicious intent.

Unfortunately, it is usually possible to find a priest who will say anything.  However, this is not a priest that I sought out because I thought he would support me on this.  It is my usual spiritual director whom I respect and trust (partly because he says the TLM and partly because he has given me good advice in the past).  I do not want to second guess him.

[wallflower]

Having said all that, greeted a new member on a different forum with this:
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2013, 07:09:AM »
Hi Chestertonian. Welcome to FE.  As Impy said, I was raised Jєωιѕн too, so I can relate to some of what you have said about this.  If you have not already discovered it, I recommend that you check out the Association of Hebrew Catholics.  http://hebrewcatholic.org/  I am not posting much during Lent, but feel free to PM me any time.  I check my PMs every day.  


Then later in the day you come into our forum, read the posts, caught red handed.
Then you immediately go back, and at 2pm and write:

« Reply #10 on: Today at 02:06 PM »
I have discovered some things about the site I mentioned above such that I would no longer recommend it to anyone.  It still might be interesting, but take it with a grain of salt.

You are oily and sly. You have been caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
Now it's 3 lies regarding just this topic....
Please leave and stay on SD or FE. They gladly have you while they ban the good members that call out snakes like you.

I'll be praying for you. For a real conversion. Desist with your hebrewcatholic.org crap.

I had forgotten that I had recommended that site to anyone.  Once I was reminded, I tried to repair my mistake.  I'm not sure why you have a problem with this.

Thank you for your prayers.  

But that's part of the problem. You recommended it on FE just a week after people pointed out problems with it on SD. From Feb 24th to Mar 3rd. Its issues would have been fresh in your mind then. Maybe you needed more time to realize they had problems, I'd give that benefit of the doubt. But to be honest you seemed familiar with them, not like you just googled them that day thereby making a mistake you later regretted.

Again, I don't know them so my main issue here isn't that you recommended them. It's the shiftiness. When someone calls you out here about promoting them, your answer isn't "Yes I did but I have changed my position." It's "No, I don't, you're misrepresenting me." Of course making that person out to be a liar, UNTIL someone pulls up proof, then we get the truth, that you in fact did/do recommend them, whatever the case may be. AND you recommended them outside of the particular context that you tried to say was being misrepresented.

It's just always shifting sands with you. If it happened once in a while it would be normal because it does happen to everyone. We change, we progress or regress, we misunderstand each other, we forget things, we're unsure of our position and contradict ourselves until we figure out what to stick with, it happens. But the miscommunication to the point of suspicion and distrust in your case is so overwhelming, it is not normal. Nor can it be chalked up to or laughed off as a simple personality quirk like you try to do. Oh I know people don't like me, haha. There's something truly off.  It's not limited to a certain forum, to any stripe of trad or to any clique. And it's been years. The usual time it takes for people to get to know each other a bit better is passed yet it still doesn't help. It actually makes it worse.

Unless there's a severe communication problem (autism? I'm grasping at straws), I don't know what else it could be but a deep abiding dishonesty. God forgive me if I'm picking on you unjustly. I'm just at a loss at how improbable it is that such pervading issues could be innocent.



 

[Charlemagne]

Unless there's a severe communication problem (autism? I'm grasping at straws), I don't know what else it could be but a deep abiding dishonesty.
 

I have Asperger's, which is a form of high-functioning autism. I won't speak for Jayne, but Aspies (and auties in general) are honest to the point of outright bluntness, if nothing else.