...Surely these Conditions demonstrate an alarming weakness on the part of the Society’s leaders as a whole...
...In conclusion, these six conditions are excessively grave. Unless the Society’s leadership is shaken out of its dream of peace with Conciliar Rome as revealed by them, then the last worldwide bastion of Catholic Tradition risks being on its way to surrendering to the enemies of the Faith. Maybe bastions are out of date.
These were hammered out by discussion amongst the 39 capitulants of early July. (Emphasis added.)
Quote from: MaterDominici
. SIX CONDITIONS
In an official letter of July 18 to Superiors of the Society of St Pius X, its General Secretary revealed the six “Conditions” for any future agreement between the SSPX and Rome. These were hammered out by discussion amongst the 39 capitulants of early July. Surely these Conditions demonstrate an alarming weakness on the part of the Society’s leaders as a whole.
The first...
The second...
The third...
The fourth...
The fifth...
The sixth and last...
In Conclusion...
Friends, prepare to fight for the Faith from within your homes. Fortify your homes.
Kyrie eleison.
© 2012 Richard N. Williamson. All Rights Reserved.
Donate
While Eleison Comments is provided free of charge, there are administrative and technical costs associated with making it available to subscribers worldwide and with operating the site. Contributions to offset these costs are appreciated, and may be made by contacting:
donate@dinoscopus.orgA Spiritual Work of Mercy - Instruct the Ignorant
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
Regarding the St. Mary's Star... it needs to run weekly until the sell-out
or until the deposition of +Fallacious.
Quote from: Neil Obstat
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
Dust off your printers and get to work, folks. Copy time!
As Fr. Chazal has said: WAR ON.
Amen to that Neil!
Quote from: stgobnaitare you allowed to leave reading material in the back of your chapel..... :reporter:
Are you going to let some accordista cleric or chapel coordinator (getting their marching orders from +Fallacious) stop you from your Catholic Duty? :facepalm:
Viva Cristo Rey!
Unless the Society’s leadership is shaken out of its dream of peace with Conciliar Rome as revealed by them, then the last worldwide bastion of Catholic Tradition risks being on its way to surrendering to the enemies of the Faith. Maybe bastions are out of date.
I most definitely will post this at the back of the SSPX Chapel I attend! It's such a small thing to do, but those who do not have internet access deserve to be informed. If I cannot stand up for what I believe now, how am I to stand up to what is coming?
Quote from: SeraphiaI most definitely will post this at the back of the SSPX Chapel I attend! It's such a small thing to do, but those who do not have internet access deserve to be informed. If I cannot stand up for what I believe now, how am I to stand up to what is coming?
I wouldn't do that.
The article is very well written, and makes some good points.
However, it still suffers from the traditional Feenyite errors:
1) No salvation outside the Church is true enough;
2) But grace operates outside the Church;
3) And in those whom grace sanctifies, they by that action alone become members of the Church;
4) So that if a man die justified, he is saved;
5) so acknowledging implicit or explicit baptism of desire is really nothing more than acknowledging that sanctifying grace will exist in the souls of those Catholics who have not yet had the opportunity to manifest their desire to become the Catholics they already are (think infants validly baptized in any of the sects, who will lose Church membership when they attain the age of reason);
6) And here you can perceive why the reason the missionary charter of the Church is not hindered by acknowledging BoB/BoD, implicitly or explicitly;
5) Fr Feeney denies this because he understands "no salvation outside the Church" to mean "no salvation without water baptism;"
6) But since Trent declares that all the justified are saved, as opposed to Fr Feeney, who puts these in Limbo, we can see easily that Fr Feeney was heading down the wrong path;
7) in short, grace operates outside the Church, and brings some members into Her, but since we cannot know who these are, and they will be reletively few in mumber, the mission and necessity to go forth into all nations and baptize is not diminished in the least by admitting implicit Church membership.
are you allowed to leave reading material in the back of your chapel..... :reporter:
well. maybe not the same..... but similar... :detective:
Quote from: Bishop WilliamsonThese were hammered out by discussion amongst the 39 capitulants of early July. (Emphasis added.)
The nature and tone of these remarks by Bishop Williamson gives credence to Father Pfeiffer's recent comments that claim Bishop Fellay is hell bent (pardon the pun) on reaching a deal with Conciliar, and unconverted, rome.
TKGS, the rumour regarding Bishop Tissier's comments has been debunked.
the General Chapter established that only the General Chapter could approve a reconciliation with Rome, thus stripping Bishop Fellay of the power to do so.
Quote from: GertrudetheGreatTKGS, the rumour regarding Bishop Tissier's comments has been debunked.
False.Quote from: GertrudetheGreatthe General Chapter established that only the General Chapter could approve a reconciliation with Rome, thus stripping Bishop Fellay of the power to do so.
The 2006 General Chapter made the same resolution but Menzingen previously asserted that Bishop Fellay could make a deal entirely on his own because his "grace of state" supposedly trumps everything else.
In his previously attempt at sell-out, +Fellay signed the Preamble without General Chapter approval. There is not reason to expect he will allow a General Chapter to stand in the way of any subsequent attempt at a sell-out.
When exactly did +Fellay signed the Preamble?
Quote from: stgobnaitare you allowed to leave reading material in the back of your chapel..... :reporter:
We can't, on pain of expulsion
We have been waiting for the condensed, short version of this story.
We now have it.
We are all obligated to memorize The Analysis of the Six Conditions.
(We are also obligated to know what the difference is between "essential
requirement" and "condition." We should be able to respond to questions about
the appropriateness of putting "conditions" on legitimate authority. This is a war
on information, and it is our duty to be prepared, so we can state these facts
clearly and without passion, because we need to exhibit a collected, calm resolve
redolent of a committed virtue, a high standard of principle, an unwavering
adherence to the "Faith of our Fathers, living still, in spite of dungeon, fire and
sword.")
If Our Good Bishop had the authority he deserves, he could run a rigorous class
in "Christian Warfare" which would not be entirely different from the BOOK that
the SSPX sells by that title, inasmuch as it is directed toward the same end. H.E.
would be the professor, and he could make this a mid-term exam. We should
study the material as if it were for just such a test. For our test may be coming,
indeed, only not under academic circuмstances!Quote from: FerdinandQuote from: MaterDominici
. SIX CONDITIONS
In an official letter of July 18 to Superiors of the Society of St Pius X, its General Secretary revealed the six “Conditions” for any future agreement between the SSPX and Rome. These were hammered out by discussion amongst the 39 capitulants of early July. Surely these Conditions demonstrate an alarming weakness on the part of the Society’s leaders as a whole.
The first...
The second...
The third...
The fourth...
The fifth...
The sixth and last...
In Conclusion...
Friends, prepare to fight for the Faith from within your homes. Fortify your homes.
Kyrie eleison.
© 2012 Richard N. Williamson. All Rights Reserved.
Donate
While Eleison Comments is provided free of charge, there are administrative and technical costs associated with making it available to subscribers worldwide and with operating the site. Contributions to offset these costs are appreciated, and may be made by contacting:
donate@dinoscopus.orgA Spiritual Work of Mercy - Instruct the Ignorant
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
Regarding the St. Mary's Star... it needs to run weekly until the sell-out
or until the deposition of +Fallacious.
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
This copy of the Eleison Comments needs to be printed out by all of us
and placed at the back of chapels, under windshield wipers and printed in the St. Mary's Star!
Dust off your printers and get to work, folks. Copy time!
As Fr. Chazal has said: WAR ON.
Quote from: GertrudetheGreatTKGS, the rumour regarding Bishop Tissier's comments has been debunked.
False.
Quote from: GertrudetheGreatthe General Chapter established that only the General Chapter could approve a reconciliation with Rome, thus stripping Bishop Fellay of the power to do so.
The 2006 General Chapter made the same resolution ...
Quote from: SeraphimOn the other hand, I dont like the part about "fortify your homes."
It could be taken to mean the bishops have no plans to do anything, regardless of what happens, and the best they can advise us is to become home-aloners.
There won't be a new bastion when this one is slighted. Bishop Williamson has been talking about a loose association of priests and about "only the rosary left" some time ago.Quote from: Bishop Williamson
Maybe bastions are out of date.
Friends, prepare to fight for the Faith from within your homes. Fortify your homes.
Of course, Gertrude the Ingrate will complain, but so be it. Some people will never
be satisfied with the truth.
Quote from: Sienna629Quote from: stgobnaitare you allowed to leave reading material in the back of your chapel..... :reporter:
We can't, on pain of expulsion
I would recommend that you hire a college student (they're always looking for odd
jobs!) to distribute the pages to the cars in the parking lot during Mass, just before
Communion, if possible. The student should be told not to divulge your identity. They
are not obligated to answer any questions.
Alternatively, you can ask a friend who is from out of the area to help, someone who
attends a different Mass normally. Don't discriminate against Novus Ordo Catholics!
It's possible that you might find someone who is thus encouraged toward Tradition by
getting involved in fighting for the Faith. Certainly they would understand that no one
at a Novus Ordo church would care one way or another about the content of this
page! But here, an SSPX congregation is likely to be quite interested.
Be sure to have the SOURCE visible on the page: Eleison Comments or Dinoscopus.
They can also stand on the sidewalk to hand copies to anyone who is walking out of
the church away from the parking lot, in case you have insufficient parking and
some park on the street. It would be unwise to place copies on cars parked on
the street because they might belong to neighbors or other non-church people, and
those often are irritated by literature stuck under a wiper regarding the church to
which they don't belong.
Great suggestions Neil!
I remembered placing Fr. Chazal's 'WAR ON' at the back of the chapel here.
1st, nobody was interested to even looked at it. They were picking some articles on +fellay and 2nd. after the first Mass, the whole 'stack' was taken by a 'lackey' and most probably handed over to the district superior.
the whole 'stack' was taken by a 'lackey' and most probably handed over to the district superior
The Society is not what it was, dear readers. It is in the hands of people quite different from Archbishop Lefebvre!
The sixth and last condition desires a Commission to be set up in Rome to look after Tradition, with a strong representation from Tradition, but “dependent on the Pope.” Dependent on the Pope? But have the Conciliar Popes not been ringleaders of Conciliarism? Is Conciliarism no longer a problem?
In conclusion, these six conditions are excessively grave. Unless the Society’s leadership is shaken out of its dream of peace with Conciliar Rome as revealed by them, then the last worldwide bastion of Catholic Tradition risks being on its way to surrendering to the enemies of the Faith. Maybe bastions are out of date.
Friends, prepare to fight for the Faith from within your homes. Fortify your homes.
Could we please stay on-topic and not derail virtually any thread? It's unfair.
This is a most excellent Eleison Comment. Thank you, Your Excellency!
As SpiritusS. says: Bishop Williamson at his best!
Now I'd like to quote "Faber" from another forum on the same topic:Quote from: Faber @ Sep 1 2012, 15:17 GMTQuote from: SeraphimOn the other hand, I dont like the part about "fortify your homes."
It could be taken to mean the bishops have no plans to do anything, regardless of what happens, and the best they can advise us is to become home-aloners.
There won't be a new bastion when this one is slighted. Bishop Williamson has been talking about a loose association of priests and about "only the rosary left" some time ago.Quote from: Bishop Williamson
Maybe bastions are out of date.
Friends, prepare to fight for the Faith from within your homes. Fortify your homes.
Very well said, Faber. Genau so ist es. It looks like we Catholics will have to do what our brave Japanese brothers in faith did after their priests had been slaughtered.
Quotethe whole 'stack' was taken by a 'lackey' and most probably handed over to the district superior
Assuming you mean a 'lackey' to mean pro-agreement, perhaps a few people can have a word with him/her. I'm not suggesting you intimidate the person but could they clarify why they are for a deal etc etc. They might change their mind. It's never any harm to have a word with them.
Quote from: John GraceQuotethe whole 'stack' was taken by a 'lackey' and most probably handed over to the district superior
Assuming you mean a 'lackey' to mean pro-agreement, perhaps a few people can have a word with him/her. I'm not suggesting you intimidate the person but could they clarify why they are for a deal etc etc. They might change their mind. It's never any harm to have a word with them.
I can tell you from personal experience that talking to this "lacky" is the surest and best way to be expelled from the chapel!
The lacky will dutifully report tto the priest, and of course, mention your name.
Quote from: John GraceQuotethe whole 'stack' was taken by a 'lackey' and most probably handed over to the district superior
Assuming you mean a 'lackey' to mean pro-agreement, perhaps a few people can have a word with him/her. I'm not suggesting you intimidate the person but could they clarify why they are for a deal etc etc. They might change their mind. It's never any harm to have a word with them.
I can tell you from personal experience that talking to this "lacky" is the surest and best way to be expelled from the chapel!
The lacky will dutifully report tto the priest, and of course, mention your name.
Quote from: EmerentianaQuote from: John GraceQuotethe whole 'stack' was taken by a 'lackey' and most probably handed over to the district superior
Assuming you mean a 'lackey' to mean pro-agreement, perhaps a few people can have a word with him/her. I'm not suggesting you intimidate the person but could they clarify why they are for a deal etc etc. They might change their mind. It's never any harm to have a word with them.
I can tell you from personal experience that talking to this "lacky" is the surest and best way to be expelled from the chapel!
The lacky will dutifully report tto the priest, and of course, mention your name.
I'm alarmed if people have allowed themselves to be bullied out of leaving the chapels of the SSPX. How are people expelled from the chapel?
Quote from: John GraceQuote from: EmerentianaQuote from: John GraceQuotethe whole 'stack' was taken by a 'lackey' and most probably handed over to the district superior
Assuming you mean a 'lackey' to mean pro-agreement, perhaps a few people can have a word with him/her. I'm not suggesting you intimidate the person but could they clarify why they are for a deal etc etc. They might change their mind. It's never any harm to have a word with them.
I can tell you from personal experience that talking to this "lacky" is the surest and best way to be expelled from the chapel!
The lacky will dutifully report tto the priest, and of course, mention your name.
I'm alarmed if people have allowed themselves to be bullied out of leaving the chapels of the SSPX. How are people expelled from the chapel?
Unfortunately, SSPX chapels have developed a system of volunteers who are at the
service of the priests (which in itself isn't a bad thing, but it's how they ABUSE this
system that isn't good), and certain things are stigmatized. Now, when someone
tries to distribute pornography or sedevacantist literature or Protestant Tent Revival
flyers, it's understandable to have volunteers picking the stuff up from the tables in
the vestibule, or out of the pews. Chick Publications (Jack Chick) is a ubiquitous
offender in our area. Hill of Hope flyers is another one. Or Medjugorje: don't get
me started!!
But when it's a page of Eleison Comments, how could that be offensive? Would a
page of a Winona seminary letter be offensive?
When someone is expelled, one of the volunteers gets the fun job of hunting the
person down and approaching them to explain that they are no longer welcome
to the chapel. That's an assignment I would not enjoy, at - all.
I have to admit that I am very fortunate. I tried to give my priest one of the
copies today and he said he didn't need it because he had already read it. He
even recalled the last words of the page: "Fortify your homes." He assured me
that it would be okay to pass them out. I have to admit, it was not as easy as
leaving a stack for people to take one. I tried that and nobody took even one.
So I grabbed most of them and went around asking people one at a time if they
would like to take one home, and most of them did accept it.
This is an independent chapel, so the outlook is a bit different from SSPX chapels,
but not regarding the Faith. I'd say it's a superficial, political kind of difference. It's
just emerging, slowly over the years, and it's not entirely developed, IMHO. But
the faithful are respectful of the SSPX, certainly would not hesitate to go to one
of the chapels especially when traveling, and have a high regard for the 4 bishops.
It seems to me that if it were not for my promotional efforts, many of them would
have no idea what's going on with the "doctrinal talks" or what +Williamson has
disseminated via Dinoscopus.
But that's not all. I found no one who was enthusiastic about this EC. I was feeling
a bit weird. Here I am, getting all pumped up over this page, and it seems to be
falling on deaf ears. Two people I gave it to, who generally respect my opinion,
read it in front of me (I was otherwise occupied passing out pages) and then
handed it back to me when they were done. They said they didn't need to keep
a copy, because they read it. They had little or no comment. Everyone was more
interested in talking about the same things they always talk about after Mass.
This gives me the firm impression that everyone who took a copy today from me
is going to go home and place this copy directly into the "dustbin," as +Williamson
would say! (British idiom)
Then there were the two problems. Both intelligent, respected professionals in
the community. One of them assured me that he had seen this already, two or
three weeks ago. I said that it was new as of yesterday, and nobody in the world
had seen it even one week ago because it hadn't been written yet. He was
certain that it was old hat to him. That made me think, when I was going to put
a date on the top of the page, I figured it wouldn't be necessary. But now, this guy
would have had a whole different outlook if he had seen yesterday's date (Sept.
1st, 2012) in black and white. Such a simple thing. Who would have known?
The other one winced as he read it, and I encouraged a reaction. He said that
these points are not very respectful of authority(!) I felt my stomach twinge. That's
a sign I had better watch what I say! I probably should have invoked the Holy
Ghost, but to be honest, I forgot to do so. However, I did have the vague intention
and I think that might have been enough at this level. I don't really know. I
replied that +Williamson was prohibited from attending the GC this summer, and
the FIRST ACT of the GC was to ratify this illicit order from +Fellay. He winced
twice as much. I then said that these analyses of the 6 resolutions are cases
in point, because if +Williamson had been at the GC, this is the kind of thing he
would have said about these "conditions," and much more, I'm sure, and THAT is
EXACTLY the reason that +Fellay did not want him to be there! In fact, if
+Williamson HAD been at the GC, these 6 conditions probably would never have
seen the light of day!
You will never believe his reply to that. He had a reply, but I'll give it tomorrow...
Quote from: Ethelred...Quote from: Faber @ Sep 1 2012, 15:17 GMTThere won't be a new bastion when this one is slighted. Bishop Williamson has been talking about a loose association of priests and about "only the rosary left" some time ago.Quote from: Bishop WilliamsonMaybe bastions are out of date.
Friends, prepare to fight for the Faith from within your homes. Fortify your homes.
Very well said, Faber. Genau so ist es. It looks like we Catholics will have to do what our brave Japanese brothers in faith did after their priests had been slaughtered.
Your words are quite chilling. No two ways about it. Remember the Japanese martyrs. They might become our role models, and soon. Remember the Cristeros. [..] I have to admit, that I'm quite uncomfortable with the concept that "Maybe the bastions are out of date." I do not like that.
Do not miss the music of H.E.'s words here.
Share the music with your friends today.
Make someone happy.
Be prepared: When Bishop Williamson will be excommunicated by the Menzingen, he will ask us whether we're jealous.
And now one after the other is getting expelled, like predicted by Fathers Chazal and J.Pfeiffer around Pentecost.
Quote from: SeraphiaI most definitely will post this at the back of the SSPX Chapel I attend! It's such a small thing to do, but those who do not have internet access deserve to be informed. If I cannot stand up for what I believe now, how am I to stand up to what is coming?
I wouldn't do that.
The article is very well written, and makes some good points.
However, it still suffers from the traditional Feenyite errors:
1) No salvation outside the Church is true enough;
2) But grace operates outside the Church; (outside of the Catholic Church there is no sanctifying grace- Dogma)
3) And in those whom grace sanctifies, they by that action alone become members of the Church;(how can they be sanctified outside of the Church if there is no sanctifying grace outside of the Church?)
4) So that if a man die justified, he is saved;
5) so acknowledging implicit or explicit baptism of desire is really nothing more than acknowledging that sanctifying grace will exist in the souls of those Catholics who have not yet had the opportunity to manifest their desire to become the Catholics they already are (so God's grace did not give them enough information, nor send them a teacher, nor keep them alive long enough to find out they need to be baptized? They were born by mistake in the wrong place and died before God could finish what he started?)
...
5) Fr Feeney denies this because he understands "no salvation outside the Church" to mean "no salvation without water baptism;" (not really. Fr. Feeney believed the same as St. Augustine, “If you wish to be a Catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that ‘they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined.’ )
6) But since Trent declares that all the justified are saved, as opposed to Fr Feeney, who puts these in Limbo, we can see easily that Fr Feeney was heading down the wrong path;( Trent makes no mention of what happens to a person who is justified, but dies before he can be baptized. Fr. Feeney never said they go to limbo. Fr. Feeney, like St. Augustine did not believe that such a person ever existed)
7) in short, grace operates outside the Church, and brings some members into Her, but since we cannot know who these are, and they will be reletively few in mumber, the mission and necessity to go forth into all nations and baptize is not diminished in the least by admitting implicit Church membership. (This mindset goes against dogmas at every turn, as minisculie explained in the other answers. Moreover, if it was true, why should they be "relatively few in number"? This is the achilles heal of the SSPXers, they want to limit their liberalism on this point to separate themselves from the conciliarist liberals, however, this is ridiculous. The truth is that once you swallow this liberalism, there is no limiting the numbers to "relatively few". Yet another wrench in the works.
Most important condition is not mentioned:
The pope must consecrate Russia to the Immacualte Heart of Mary, as requested by Lucia.
Quote from: Neil ObstatQuote from: John GraceQuote from: EmerentianaQuote from: John GraceQuotethe whole 'stack' was taken by a 'lackey' and most probably handed over to the district superior
Assuming you mean a 'lackey' to mean pro-agreement, perhaps a few people can have a word with him/her. I'm not suggesting you intimidate the person but could they clarify why they are for a deal etc etc. They might change their mind. It's never any harm to have a word with them.
I can tell you from personal experience that talking to this "lacky" is the surest and best way to be expelled from the chapel!
The lacky will dutifully report tto the priest, and of course, mention your name.
I'm alarmed if people have allowed themselves to be bullied out of leaving the chapels of the SSPX. How are people expelled from the chapel?
Unfortunately, SSPX chapels have developed a system of volunteers who
are at the service of the priests (which in itself isn't a bad thing, but it's how they ABUSE this system that isn't good), and certain things are stigmatized.
Now, when someone tries to distribute pornography or sedevacantist
literature or Protestant Tent Revival flyers, it's understandable to have
volunteers picking the stuff up from the tables in the vestibule, or out of the
pews. Chick Publications (Jack Chick) is a ubiquitous offender in our area.
Hill of Hope flyers is another one. Or Medjugorje: don't get me started!!
But when it's a page of Eleison Comments, how could that be offensive?
Would a page of a Winona seminary letter be offensive?
When someone is expelled, one of the volunteers gets the fun job of hunting
the person down and approaching them to explain that they are no longer
welcome to the chapel. That's an assignment I would not enjoy, at - all.
I have to admit that I am very fortunate. I tried to give my priest one of the
copies today and he said he didn't need it because he had already read it.
He even recalled the last words of the page: "Fortify your homes." He
assured me that it would be okay to pass them out. I have to admit, it was
not as easy as leaving a stack for people to take one. I tried that and
nobody took even one. So I grabbed most of them and went around asking
people one at a time if they would like to take one home, and most of them
did accept it.
This is an independent chapel, so the outlook is a bit different from SSPX
chapels, but not regarding the Faith. I'd say it's a superficial, political kind of
difference. It's just emerging, slowly over the years, and it's not entirely
developed, IMHO. But the faithful are respectful of the SSPX, certainly would
not hesitate to go to one of the chapels especially when traveling, and have
a high regard for the 4 bishops. It seems to me that if it were not for my
promotional efforts, many of them would have no idea what's going on with
the "doctrinal talks" or what +Williamson has disseminated via Dinoscopus.
But that's not all. I found no one who was enthusiastic about this EC. I was feeling a bit weird. Here I am, getting all pumped up over this page, and it
seems to be falling on deaf ears. Two people I gave it to, who generally
respect my opinion, read it in front of me (I was otherwise occupied passing
out pages) and then handed it back to me when they were done. They said
they didn't need to keep a copy, because they read it. They had little or no
comment. Everyone was more interested in talking about the same things
they always talk about after Mass. This gives me the firm impression that
everyone who took a copy today from me is going to go home and place
this copy directly into the "dustbin," as +Williamson would say! (British idiom)
Then there were the two problems. Both intelligent, respected professionals
in the community. One of them assured me that he had seen this already,
two or three weeks ago. I said that it was new as of yesterday, and nobody
in the world had seen it even one week ago because it hadn't been written
yet. He was certain that it was old hat to him. That made me think, when I
was going to put a date on the top of the page, I figured it wouldn't be
necessary. But now, this guy would have had a whole different outlook if he
had seen yesterday's date (Sept. 1st, 2012) in black and white. Such a
simple thing. Who would have known?
The other one winced as he read it, and I encouraged a reaction. He said
that these points are not very respectful of authority(!) I felt my stomach
twinge. That's a sign I had better watch what I say! I probably should have
invoked the Holy Ghost, but to be honest, I forgot to do so. However, I did
have the vague intention and I think that might have been enough at this
level. I don't really know. I replied that +Williamson was prohibited
from attending the GC this summer, and the FIRST ACT of the GC
was to ratify this illicit order from +Fellay. He winced twice as
much. I then said that these analyses of the 6 resolutions are
cases in point, because if +Williamson had been at the GC, this is
the kind of thing he would have said about these "conditions," and
much more, I'm sure, and THAT is EXACTLY the reason that +Fellay
did not want him to be there!
In fact, if +Williamson HAD been at the GC, these 6 conditions
probably would never have seen the light of day!
You will never believe his reply to that. He had a reply, but I'll give it tomorrow...
With the exception of a handful of the "Bishop Williamson was imprudent" types, the Irish SSPX chapels are certainly pro- Bishop Williamson and anti agreement. Same applies to the British District. He was warmly greeted when he visited Ireland.Same for Bishop Tissier. Bishop Fellay will get a very cool reception in Ireland for certain.Bishop Fellay is not popular in Ireland.
I second the suggestion to distribute this E.C. at your chapel. Just make a stack of papers, and place it there when no one is looking. Even if a "lackey" takes them away and trashes most of them, you tried. And some people got a copy before he discovered it!
And you never know -- you might be at one of the chapels where there ISN'T a vigilant lackey keeping an eye out.
Either way, you'll get people talking -- and that's what we want. We're of the TRUTH, not the deceivers who want to stifle all discussion and knowledge of what's going on. We WANT people to be awake, to listen and think for themselves.
Quote from: Neil ObstatQuote from: Ethelred...Quote from: Faber @ Sep 1 2012, 15:17 GMTThere won't be a new bastion when this one is slighted. Bishop Williamson has been talking about a loose association of priests and about "only the rosary left" some time ago.Quote from: Bishop WilliamsonMaybe bastions are out of date.
Friends, prepare to fight for the Faith from within your homes. Fortify your homes.
Very well said, Faber. Genau so ist es. It looks like we Catholics will have to do what our brave Japanese brothers in faith did after their priests had been slaughtered.
Your words are quite chilling. No two ways about it. Remember the Japanese
martyrs. They might become our role models, and soon. Remember the
Cristeros. [..] I have to admit, that I'm quite uncomfortable with the concept
that "Maybe the bastions are out of date." I do not like that.
Well, we Catholics can't like that. We would really prefer a holy Holy Father, and sound catechesis at the local parish.
But unfortunately the reality is very different. And we Catholics can't close our eyes to this.
The situation in the SSPX is terrible and it really only gets worse every week. The good priests are being persecuted since Pentecost, when some of them stood up and others supported them. And now one after the other is getting expelled, like predicted by Fathers Chazal and J.Pfeiffer around Pentecost.
So it's foreseeable that soon there will only be... prepare to fight for the Faith from within your homes.
The good Bishop doesn't say this carelessly but because he clearly heard how the SSPX-Titanic rammed the Newrome-Iceberg, whilst some SSPX-dreamers still think the blasts are from the ship's band...Quote from: NeilDo not miss the music of H.E.'s words here.
Share the music with your friends today.
Make someone happy.
Yes, I just did, and it made them happy and me. Sharing Bishop Williamson's "word music" is always wonderful and a great help in staying Catholic.
Quote from: FaberBe prepared: When Bishop Williamson will be excommunicated by the Menzingen, he will ask us whether we're jealous.
Yes indeed.
Quote from: SeraphimQuote from: SeraphiaI most definitely will post this at the back of the SSPX Chapel I attend! It's such a small thing to do, but those who do not have internet access deserve to be informed. If I cannot stand up for what I believe now, how am I to stand up to what is coming?
I wouldn't do that.
The article is very well written, and makes some good points.
However, it still suffers
Umm.. I'm talking about the actual TOPIC. You know, the one we've been talking about -- Bishop Williamson.Quote from: SeraphimQuote from: SeraphiaI most definitely will post this at the back of the SSPX Chapel I attend! It's such a small thing to do, but those who do not have internet access deserve to be informed. If I cannot stand up for what I believe now, how am I to stand up to what is coming?
I wouldn't do that.
The article is very well written, and makes some good points.
However, it still suffers
Quote from: SeraphimQuote from: SeraphiaI most definitely will post this at the back of the SSPX Chapel I attend! It's such a small thing to do, but those who do not have internet access deserve to be informed. If I cannot stand up for what I believe now, how am I to stand up to what is coming?
I wouldn't do that.
The article is very well written, and makes some good points.
However, it still suffers ...
Umm.. I'm talking about the actual TOPIC.
You know, the one we've been talking about -- Bishop Williamson.[actually, his EC 268]Quote from: SeraphimQuote from: SeraphiaI most definitely will post this at the back of the SSPX Chapel I attend! It's such a small thing to do, but those who do not have internet access deserve to be informed. If I cannot stand up for what I believe now, how am I to stand up to what is coming?
I wouldn't do that.
The article is very well written, and makes some good points.
However, it still suffers ...
QuoteWhen someone is expelled, one of the volunteers gets the fun job of hunting the
person down and approaching them to explain that they are no longer welcome
to the chapel. That's an assignment I would not enjoy, at - all.
It might very well be the pastor in an SSPX Chapel, and he will no doubt relish the task.QuoteThis is an independent chapel, so the outlook is a bit different from SSPX chapels...
No, WAY, WAY different. I cannot imagine any INDEPENDENT priest itching to sign with Apostate Rome
and bear the ensuing yoke, so you would presumably have the pastor on your side.That's WAY, WAY different!
I loved this EC. Hopefully, from this point on, we will never get another EC on the subject of Brahms. The bishop has finally crossed the Rubicon.
Quote from: Neil Obstat
When someone is expelled, one of the volunteers gets the fun job of hunting the
person down and approaching them to explain that they are no longer welcome
to the chapel. That's an assignment I would not enjoy, at - all.
It might very well be the pastor in an SSPX Chapel, and he will no doubt relish the task.
QuoteThis is an independent chapel, so the outlook is a bit different from SSPX chapels...
No, WAY, WAY different. I cannot imagine any INDEPENDENT priest itching to sign with Apostate Rome and bear the ensuing yoke, so you would presumably have the pastor on your side. That's WAY, WAY different!
Quote from: SeraphimQuote from: SeraphiaI most definitely will post this at the back of the SSPX Chapel I attend! It's such a small thing to do, but those who do not have internet access deserve to be informed. If I cannot stand up for what I believe now, how am I to stand up to what is coming?
I wouldn't do that.
The article is very well written, and makes some good points.
However, it still suffers from the traditional Feenyite errors:
1) No salvation outside the Church is true enough;
2) But grace operates outside the Church; (outside of the Catholic Church there is no sanctifying grace- Dogma)
3) And in those whom grace sanctifies, they by that action alone become members of the Church;(how can they be sanctified outside of the Church if there is no sanctifying grace outside of the Church?)
4) So that if a man die justified, he is saved;
5) so acknowledging implicit or explicit baptism of desire is really nothing more than acknowledging that sanctifying grace will exist in the souls of those Catholics who have not yet had the opportunity to manifest their desire to become the Catholics they already are (so God's grace did not give them enough information, nor send them a teacher, nor keep them alive long enough to find out they need to be baptized? They were born by mistake in the wrong place and died before God could finish what he started?)
...
5) Fr Feeney denies this because he understands "no salvation outside the Church" to mean "no salvation without water baptism;" (not really. Fr. Feeney believed the same as St. Augustine, “If you wish to be a Catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that ‘they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined.’ )
6) But since Trent declares that all the justified are saved, as opposed to Fr Feeney, who puts these in Limbo, we can see easily that Fr Feeney was heading down the wrong path;( Trent makes no mention of what happens to a person who is justified, but dies before he can be baptized. Fr. Feeney never said they go to limbo. Fr. Feeney, like St. Augustine did not believe that such a person ever existed)
7) in short, grace operates outside the Church, and brings some members into Her, but since we cannot know who these are, and they will be reletively few in mumber, the mission and necessity to go forth into all nations and baptize is not diminished in the least by admitting implicit Church membership. (This mindset goes against dogmas at every turn, as minisculie explained in the other answers. Moreover, if it was true, why should they be "relatively few in number"? This is the achilles heal of the SSPXers, they want to limit their liberalism on this point to separate themselves from the conciliarist liberals, however, this is ridiculous. The truth is that once you swallow this liberalism, there is no limiting the numbers to "relatively few". Yet another wrench in the works.
Seraphim, you need to read the whole thread.
Seraphia was talking about posting the latest Eleison Comments at the back of her chapel, not the post (above) about 2 posts up.
That post totally derailed this thread, and has annoyed me, so I removed it.
She can post it in a separate thread if she wants.
Apparently Seraphim doesn't want to read....
Or think...........Quote from: MatthewSeraphim, you need to read the whole thread.
Seraphia was talking about posting the latest Eleison Comments at the back of her chapel, not the post (above) about 2 posts up.
That post totally derailed this thread, and has annoyed me, so I removed it.
She can post it in a separate thread if she wants.
Yes, I am in a cantankerous mood tonight.
Wondering why there are only 5 priests of 560 who see the light has gotten my Irish up!
Quote from: SeraphimYes, I am in a cantankerous mood tonight.
Wondering why there are only 5 priests of 560 who see the light has gotten my Irish up!
5? You're including the doubtfully-ordained non-member of the SSPX, Fr. Voigt, and the other non-member, Fr. Ringrose?
I think the current count is 2, with one more "possible".
Let your Irish react to that! :)
It's always possible that it is you who doesn't "see the light" but I suppose you don't take that possibility seriously.
Yes, I am in a cantankerous mood tonight.
Wondering why there are only 5 priests of 560 who see the light has gotten my Irish up!
there is life outside the usa........ i wouldnt be counting on us here too much :sad:
Quote from: Bishop WilliamsonThese were hammered out by discussion amongst the 39 capitulants of early July. (Emphasis added.)
The nature and tone of these remarks by Bishop Williamson gives credence to Father Pfeiffer's recent comments that claim Bishop Fellay is hell bent (pardon the pun) on reaching a deal with Conciliar, and unconverted, rome.
Yes, I am in a cantankerous mood tonight.
Wondering why there are only 5 priests of 560 who see the light has gotten my Irish up!