Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Matthew on October 24, 2016, 08:30:09 PM
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Sent to me via e-mail (This incident was also related by phone to me, by two trustworthy, upstanding Catholics who I have met in person)
Traditional Catholics:
Recently I was shocked to learn from a friend and fellow member of the SSPX Chapel in Roswell, Georgia, that she had received a letter dated August 31, 2016 from our priest which banned my friend from attending future Masses at our Chapel because my friend's medical condition (which causes her to have an occasional minor shoulder twitch) was too much of a "distraction" for other Mass attendees.
My friend is a very devout person who previously attended Mass at our Chapel on almost a daily basis, and who has supported the Chapel consistently with her donations. In fact, my friend had been saving up to attend the grand opening of the new SSPX seminary in Virginia this fall.
My question for Traditional Catholics is: does an SSPX priest have the authority to ban someone from all SSPX Masses for an involuntary medical condition?
I know the ADA does not apply to churches, but is this a moral action for a priest to take? What about Christian charity?
Your response would be greatly appreciated.
To summarize:
I received a phone call (and an e-mail letter, posted above) from two men who I have met in person. They received this report from the lady herself, in person. The two men in question are long-time SSPX Traditional Catholics, who have been supporting the Resistance (including Bishop Williamson, Fr. Zendejas, etc.) for some time now. They have been generous supporters of the Resistance, and I would not entertain any suggestion that they would be guilty of slander or lying about something like this.
You don't make major sacrifices for the Faith one week (go on a double-digit hour road trip to attend a Resistance Mass and meet Bishop Williamson), and then totally throw away your spiritual life the next week. That doesn't happen.
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If true, the letter should be scanned and posted on every trad message board and website. I hope that this is not a rumor as it is monstrous.
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Could her nervous tic be that distracting? Does that priest also ban young children because they cry or fidget?
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Deo gratias!
Please tell your friend to say a prayer of thanks to St. Raymond Nonnatus for the "banning".
(http://www.traditioninaction.org/SOD/SODimages3/144_nonnatus.jpg)
The letter was dated on his Feastday 8/31.
He was ordained a Spanish Mercedarian priest who had dedicated himself to the redemption of captives.
Link (http://www.traditioninaction.org/SOD/j144sd_RaymondNonnatus_8-31.shtml)
Your friend sounds like a pious lady. Why then was she unjustly refused the Sacraments?
Was it Fr. Danel, the former independent, now xSPX priest who banned her?
Could he have not asked her to sit in the back, if it she was so "distracting"?
I know 5-yr. olds who attend Mass who "twitch" constantly?
No matter... it is a sign of Divine Providence.
Stay out of the xSPX ѕуηαgσgυєs and don't give them your money.
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It seems to me that +Fellay might help with this problem. After all, he's trying to make a good impression for Pope Francis, during this "year of mercy" in his "excludes no one" church, so this could be an opportunity to find out what happens when the rubber meets the road.
Of course, you'll have to take a big chance on whether +Fellay will ever respond to your appeal.
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Sent to me via e-mail (This incident was also related by phone to me, by two trustworthy, upstanding Catholics who I have met in person)
Traditional Catholics:
Recently I was shocked to learn from a friend and fellow member of the SSPX Chapel in Roswell, Georgia, that she had received a letter dated August 31, 2016 from our priest which banned my friend from attending future Masses at our Chapel because my friend's medical condition (which causes her to have an occasional minor shoulder twitch) was too much of a "distraction" for other Mass attendees.
My friend is a very devout person who previously attended Mass at our Chapel on almost a daily basis, and who has supported the Chapel consistently with her donations. In fact, my friend had been saving up to attend the grand opening of the new SSPX seminary in Virginia this fall.
My question for Traditional Catholics is: does an SSPX priest have the authority to ban someone from all SSPX Masses for an involuntary medical condition?
I know the ADA does not apply to churches, but is this a moral action for a priest to take? What about Christian charity?
Your response would be greatly appreciated.
Maybe it is a misunderstanding or maybe there is more to it than this. You can't know without speaking to this priest. I wouldn't spread anything around until you make sure this is not the case.
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It was probably very painful for the lady, but it is really a blessing or cross from God. He wants to lead her out of the SSPX as they join the novus ordo and eventually embrace all Thier abominations.
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Hopefully, she can now find a good sede, independent, resistance priest for Sacraments.
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Hopefully the parish leave and follow her. The priest might get a hint?
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(http://ift.tt/TpEiWu)
Roswellians, in search of the truth, migrate to a more Catholic TLM chapel.
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The pastor at Roswell should be Fr. Danel, an independent priest associated with the SSPX, and conditionally ordained by Bp. Williamson. He is a good guy. Maybe this lady insists on sitting in the front rows. She should make a deal with the pastor to sit in the back row, that way the distraction is minimized.
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Hopefully, she can now find a good sede, independent, resistance priest for Sacraments.
That doesn't exist in that part of the world.
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(http://ift.tt/TpEiWu)
Roswellians, in search of the truth, migrate to a more Catholic TLM chapel.
They can go to the parish in Mableton.
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How about Savannah, the oldest city in the country, where the Catholics celebrated Holy Mass and the first real American Thanksgiving on the same day ?
Douglas: Latin Mass - Independent
Mableton: St. Francis de Sales Church - Diocese
Macon: St. Joseph Church - Diocese
Midway:Christ the King Mission - Independent
Roswell: St. Michael's Church - xSPX
Savannah: Christ the King Mission - Independent
St. John the Baptist Cathedral - Diocese
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The sspx gives me a nervous tic.
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I will reserve judgment until I see a copy of the letter.
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I will reserve judgment until I see a copy of the letter.
I agree. Without a scan of the letter itself, I don't think this topic should have even been posted. I tend to disbelieve the report on its face.
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The sspx gives me a nervous tic.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dnBUTaw5i1o/TNWn6d2gUuI/AAAAAAAAAcU/JAqLLu8yZMQ/s1600/john-mccain-snarling.jpg)
Like this?
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I will reserve judgment until I see a copy of the letter.
I agree. Without a scan of the letter itself, I don't think this topic should have even been posted. I tend to disbelieve the report on its face.
Then who, pray tell, is the liar? And not just a little white lie either. This report implicates the SSPX and Fr. Danel (a validly ordained priest of God, who is the pastor of that chapel) in a rather serious sin: withholding the sacraments from a baptized Catholic without just cause.
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To summarize:
I received a phone call (and an e-mail letter, posted above) from two men who I have met in person. They received this report from the lady herself, in person. The two men in question are long-time SSPX Traditional Catholics, who have been supporting the Resistance (including Bishop Williamson, Fr. Zendejas, etc.) for some time now. They have been generous supporters of the Resistance, and I would not entertain any suggestion that they would be guilty of slander or lying about something like this.
You don't make major sacrifices for the Faith one week (go on a double-digit hour road trip to attend a Resistance Mass and meet Bishop Williamson), and then sell your soul for a stupid, fruitless sin like slandering a priest just a few months later. That doesn't happen.
So if this story wasn't true, it would have to be the lady in question who made it up/distorted the facts/etc.
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Even if her twitch was violent, hence, a visual distraction to others, a simple solution is to have her sit in the back pew.
Don't deny her the Holy Divine Sacrifice because of her medical condition.
There is something wrong with that priest. He is either void of common sense or ill-willed.
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To summarize:
I received a phone call (and an e-mail letter, posted above) from two men who I have met in person. They received this report from the lady herself, in person. The two men in question are long-time SSPX Traditional Catholics, who have been supporting the Resistance (including Bishop Williamson, Fr. Zendejas, etc.) for some time now. They have been generous supporters of the Resistance, and I would not entertain any suggestion that they would be guilty of slander or lying about something like this.
You don't make major sacrifices for the Faith one week (go on a double-digit hour road trip to attend a Resistance Mass and meet Bishop Williamson), and then sell your soul for a stupid, fruitless sin like slandering a priest just a few months later. That doesn't happen.
So if this story wasn't true, it would have to be the lady in question who made it up/distorted the facts/etc.
I don't know the two men you spoke with, and I don't know the lady in question. Because, as you correctly point out, the accusation involves a priest of God and a serious sin, I will reserve judgment until I see more substantial evidence than double hearsay.
At this point, I neither believe nor doubt, and I refuse to condemn a priest when I don't know either way.
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Then who, pray tell, is the liar?
You answer your own question:
So if this story wasn't true, it would have to be the lady in question who made it up/distorted the facts/etc.
Of course, I don't know if she's not being completely truthful, but nowhere do you say that your correspondents were actual witnesses, only that the lady reported this information to them. Unless they have seen the letter, they shouldn't have passed on this information.
It seems that too many people want to automatically believe the worst of any SSPX chapel whether there is evidence of a problem or not. And I would note that I absolutely DO NOT support the SSPX nor do I attend any of their chapels. As you say, this is either slander of a priest of God or, at best, detraction when we really don't know the full story. I simply don't believe there are really any SSPX priests stupid enough to put in writing that a person cannot attend a chapel because of a physical defect. There simply has to be more to the story.
Scripture tells us not to convict without evidence supplied by two witnesses, but so far, we only have one--and a lot of hearsay.
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People have been know to exaggerate causes and/or effects when under duress.
It is also possible that the "tic" isn't the root issue, I suspect there is more to the story than she is sharing.
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The "letter" then, must have been very carefully worded ? :scratchchin:
Wouldn't it seem, verbal counseling was more appropriate for such an issue?
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I lived down the street from this chapel for many, many years. I grew up in Roswell. I know Fr. Danel very well. I have a difficult time believing he would do something like this without a very serious reason, he is one of the most level headed priests I've ever met. He is incredibly welcoming towards those who trickle in from the Novus Ordo with tons of questions.
If he banned someone from coming, I'm sure there were reasons that are unknown to us. There are lots of families at that chapel. Some with very young children who are distracting, but he doesn't ask them to leave.
I just think there is something that isn't being said here. I trust Fr. Danel's judgment, he is a good priest IMO. I used to go to him for spiritual direction.
We don't know the details, we shouldn't speculate. If you want to know, you can call the parish after 11:45am on weekdays, he's usually there for a few hours after mass.
If you're so concerned call him, otherwise stop assuming things about him.
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How about Savannah, the oldest city in the country, where the Catholics celebrated Holy Mass and the first real American Thanksgiving on the same day ?
Douglas: Latin Mass - Independent
Mableton: St. Francis de Sales Church - Diocese
Macon: St. Joseph Church - Diocese
Midway:Christ the King Mission - Independent
Roswell: St. Michael's Church - xSPX
Savannah: Christ the King Mission - Independent
St. John the Baptist Cathedral - Diocese
The first real American Catholic Mass was celebrated by Fr. Grajales in the 16th century in what is now Florida.
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To summarize:
I received a phone call (and an e-mail letter, posted above) from two men who I have met in person. They received this report from the lady herself, in person. The two men in question are long-time SSPX Traditional Catholics, who have been supporting the Resistance (including Bishop Williamson, Fr. Zendejas, etc.) for some time now. They have been generous supporters of the Resistance, and I would not entertain any suggestion that they would be guilty of slander or lying about something like this.
You don't make major sacrifices for the Faith one week (go on a double-digit hour road trip to attend a Resistance Mass and meet Bishop Williamson), and then sell your soul for a stupid, fruitless sin like slandering a priest just a few months later. That doesn't happen.
So if this story wasn't true, it would have to be the lady in question who made it up/distorted the facts/etc.
I don't know the two men you spoke with, and I don't know the lady in question. Because, as you correctly point out, the accusation involves a priest of God and a serious sin, I will reserve judgment until I see more substantial evidence than double hearsay.
At this point, I neither believe nor doubt, and I refuse to condemn a priest when I don't know either way.
Yes! Exactly.
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There was a parishioner many years ago in our SSPX parish that had VIOLENT Tourette's tics during Mass - like, full body spasms and flailing limbs, and mewling-like cry outbursts. It was pretty distracting during Mass. I felt sorry for this person. I've not seen them around anymore, but I don't know if they were asked to leave.
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I lived down the street from this chapel for many, many years. I grew up in Roswell. I know Fr. Danel very well. I have a difficult time believing he would do something like this without a very serious reason, he is one of the most level headed priests I've ever met. He is incredibly welcoming towards those who trickle in from the Novus Ordo with tons of questions.
If he banned someone from coming, I'm sure there were reasons that are unknown to us. There are lots of families at that chapel. Some with very young children who are distracting, but he doesn't ask them to leave.
I just think there is something that isn't being said here. I trust Fr. Danel's judgment, he is a good priest IMO. I used to go to him for spiritual direction.
We don't know the details, we shouldn't speculate. If you want to know, you can call the parish after 11:45am on weekdays, he's usually there for a few hours after mass.
If you're so concerned call him, otherwise stop assuming things about him.
I would agree with you on almost every point, except the soundness of Father Danel's judgement in going from being an independent priest to falling under obedience with the xSPX.
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How about Savannah, the oldest city in the country, where the Catholics celebrated Holy Mass and the first real American Thanksgiving on the same day ?
Douglas: Latin Mass - Independent
Mableton: St. Francis de Sales Church - Diocese
Macon: St. Joseph Church - Diocese
Midway:Christ the King Mission - Independent
Roswell: St. Michael's Church - xSPX
Savannah: Christ the King Mission - Independent
St. John the Baptist Cathedral - Diocese
The first real American Catholic Mass was celebrated by Fr. Grajales in the 16th century in what is now Florida.
Old Poche's right... it was in St. Augustine. :judge:
(http://www.traditioninaction.org/History/HistImages/B_024_Mass.jpg)
This honor belongs to the city of St. Augustine, Florida, the first and oldest city of our present day United States. The landing of Captain General Pedro Menendez de Aviles and his fleet of soldiers and colonists – accompanied by priests – on the coast of Florida on September 8, 1565 has all the qualification to count it as the first official Thanksgiving Day in our country:
TIA Link (http://www.traditioninaction.org/History/B_024_Augustine.html)
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I would agree with you on almost every point, except the soundness of Father Danel's judgement in going from being an independent priest to falling under obedience with the xSPX.
I never said that though, someone else did. He was a Novus Ordo priest who joined the SSPX if I'm not mistaken.
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"... he is one of the most level headed priests I've ever met."
" I trust Fr. Danel's judgment, he is a good priest IMO."
I would agree with you on almost every point, except the soundness of Father Danel's judgement in going from being an independent priest to falling under obedience with the xSPX. [/quote]
I certainly hope he remains a good priest, but if he's suppressed himself under the wayward rule of Bp. Fellay, I don't trust his judgement.
Many of us used to trust Bp. Fellay, but experience has taught us otherwise.
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Matthew,
Did the people who relayed this story to you tell you what the tic movement actually was? Did she also blurt out obscenities like someone with Tyrrets Syndrome (sp)? What was the buildup before the letter was handed to the parishioner?
I would like to see the actual letter and would like more details.
A person who suffers from nervous tics can sit in the back, stand in the back, sit off to the farther right hand side (the St Joseph side).
If there are no further details, perhaps it's time we start giving SSPX priests the benefit of the doubt.
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Matthew,
Did the people who relayed this story to you tell you what the tic movement actually was? Did she also blurt out obscenities like someone with Tyrrets Syndrome (sp)? What was the buildup before the letter was handed to the parishioner?
I would like to see the actual letter and would like more details.
A person who suffers from nervous tics can sit in the back, stand in the back, sit off to the farther right hand side (the St Joseph side).
If there are no further details, perhaps it's time we start giving SSPX priests the benefit of the doubt.
Nonsense. Everyone knows the SSPX is EEEEVIIIIILLLLLL and all accusations against them are to be considered true until proven otherwise, and sometimes after as well.
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(NooneImportant said:)
"Nonsense. Everyone knows the SSPX is EEEEVIIIIILLLLLL..."
:farmer: "The boy be catchin on!"
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This story made Traitio
October 29, 2016 - Our Lady's Saturday
Simple Feast
A Reader Asks: "Why Does the Neo-SSPX Uncharitably Persecute
Those of Their Members with Disabilities?"
(http://www.traditio.com/comment/com1610zc.jpg)
Bernie Fellay Is Now Uncharitably Ejecting from His Neo-SSPX Sites
Those Who Have Even Minor Disabilities Like Many Others Who Fellay Has Ejected
This Woman Had Been Quite Devout and Had Contributed Generously
To Fellay's Neo-SSPX Sect, Which Is Certainly Not Archbishop Lefebvre's
Original Traditional Catholic Society of St. Pius X
All Who Are Still Malingering in Fellay's Anti-Traditional Neo-SSPX
Should Be Jolted to Terminate Their Association with Such an Immoral Organization
Which Is Hardly Traditional Catholic Any Longer
Given Its Continuing Efforts To Sell Out to the Anti-Catholic New Order Sect
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Traditio is not giving us details, Traditio is giving us clichéd slogans.
What are the facts of the case?
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Uhhh... The Lady had demons and...
instead of casting them out of her, Father cast the Lady out xSPX temple? :thinking: