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Author Topic: +Williamson conference on Vatican II, Prometheus book in NY, Oct 12-13, 2019  (Read 4958 times)

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Quote from: SeanJohnson
I think this now describes me.
That's the difference between the SSPX and the Resistance: we know our theology and you do not. 

True or False Pope Endorsements, His Excellency Bishop Fellay: "until now—at least in the English-speaking world—only articles and booklets have been published against Sedevacantism and its related errors.  A comprehensive and definitive refutation, firmly grounded in ecclesiology, has been sorely needed. We thus pray that True or False Pope? finds its way to many Catholics of good will, be they of perplexed mind at the moment. Mr. Salza and Mr. Siscoe’s book will surely afford much clarity to the reader.” http://www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/endorsements.html See other endorsements by Priests, specifically Father Francois Laisney, Fr. Yves Le Roux and Father Steven Reuter. it's safe to say TOFP is SSPX-endorsed, and is solid Catholic Theology. Every informed traditional Catholic who wants to know how to refute SVism should read it. I'm not posting all of them here as it would be too long.

That's the difference between the SSPX and the Resistance: we know our theology and you do not.

True or False Pope Endorsements, His Excellency Bishop Fellay: "until now—at least in the English-speaking world—only articles and booklets have been published against Sedevacantism and its related errors.  A comprehensive and definitive refutation, firmly grounded in ecclesiology, has been sorely needed. We thus pray that True or False Pope? finds its way to many Catholics of good will, be they of perplexed mind at the moment. Mr. Salza and Mr. Siscoe’s book will surely afford much clarity to the reader.” http://www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/endorsements.html See other endorsements by Priests, specifically Father Francois Laisney, Fr. Yves Le Roux and Father Steven Reuter. it's safe to say TOFP is SSPX-endorsed, and is solid Catholic Theology. Every informed traditional Catholic who wants to know how to refute SVism should read it. I'm not posting all of them here as it would be too long.
It would be better for you just to say, “This is our story, and we’re sticking to it,” as you definitely do not know your theology.

For example: Who is correct in their understanding of St. Bellarmine’s position: Dr. Lamont or Siscoe/Salza?

Please give your reasons.

But you can’t, because though you can regurgitate someone else’s position, and embrace it as your own, you have no ability to read the source, much less make an informed commentary on it.

Your side embraced Siscoe/Salza, so you do the same, based on authority.

But you are not capable of giving s lucid explanation for why Siscoe is right, and Lamont wrong.

This means you do not know your theology on this subject (and there are very few who do).

da Silveira perhaps?  Maybe 3-4 others?


Heh. I already explained the Dr. Lamont thing. In St. Robert's view, the Pope loses his office after one or two warnings from many Cardinals and Bishops, after there is no longer universal acceptance, but before the Church makes the final declaration. I explained this by citing Fr. Ballerini. There's no suggestion in the Doctors of any Pope losing his office without any kind of warning, or while still having universal acceptance. That's a modern novelty, that arises from either ignorance of or unwillingness to deal with the UA teaching.

Your last statement is quite laughable, really, because I told Siscoe about Universal Acceptance, while they were still making the rather weak arguments from pertinacity alone some 7 odd years ago, but I'll let it pass. A sede acquaintance recently told me, an SSPX Priest in Australia told him, in the 90s, and for most of the first decade millenium, the sedes had the better arguments. R&R arguments were quite poor, some were incredibly weak. Many R&Rers couldn't answer sede arguments and believed them to be incontrovertible. It was the re-discovery of Universal Acceptance teaching in Cardinal Billot, St. Alphonsus et al that turned the tide in favor of R&R once more.

I think this now describes me.
It seems pretty clear to me that Lefebvre did not think it was dogmatic, but less so that he was right.

I have a hard time seeing it as dogmatic in the light of current events, but I'm also aware that that's an emotional response and not a strictly logical one.

But while in the case of heretical teaching I can make the argument of "well, yes its heretical, but we have no way of knowing/proving that he *realizes* this" I Have a harder time arguing that with something so much more overt such as Pachamama worship.  Can a Catholic worship Pachamama idols?

I suppose you could make the argument that it was an act of ecuмenism and thus while mortal sin not a sincere reflection of belief.

IDK... but I can't wag my finger at Sedevacantists while the Vatican is literally worshipping idols.  No, I'm not a Sede, and I think its safer to assume the Pope is the Pope, but I feel like I'd be putting my head in the sand if I didn't say I get the struggle.  

Heh. I already explained the Dr. Lamont thing. In St. Robert's view, the Pope loses his office after one or two warnings from many Cardinals and Bishops, after there is no longer universal acceptance, but before the Church makes the final declaration. I explained this by citing Fr. Ballerini. There's no suggestion in the Doctors of any Pope losing his office without any kind of warning, or while still having universal acceptance. That's a modern novelty, that arises from either ignorance of or unwillingness to deal with the UA teaching.

Your last statement is quite laughable, really, because I told Siscoe about Universal Acceptance, while they were still making the rather weak arguments from pertinacity alone some 7 odd years ago, but I'll let it pass. A sede acquaintance recently told me, an SSPX Priest in Australia told him, in the 90s, and for most of the first decade millenium, the sedes had the better arguments. R&R arguments were quite poor, some were incredibly weak. Many R&Rers couldn't answer sede arguments and believed them to be incontrovertible. It was the re-discovery of Universal Acceptance teaching in Cardinal Billot, St. Alphonsus et al that turned the tide in favor of R&R once more.

We all know what Siscoe says Bellarmine says.

I can teach a monkey to regurgitate it to you, but that won’t mean the monkey knows his theology.

Firstly, you have no idea what Bellsrmine teaches, because the only thing you know of it is what you have heard others say of him.

What I’m looking for you to do is quote both author and principle in the formation of an argument to prove Dr. Lamont is wrong, and Siscoe right.

From that point, we can take the next step, and repeat the same procedure with Cajetan and JST (whom you also have have never read).

Which really means you can’t even take tge first step, because contrary to your claim, you don’t really know any theology.

What you are good at, instead, is persevering in a position regardless of what is said, and posting things you found other people said to help you keep that position afloat.

I would go even further, and suggest to you that none of the SSPX priests have studied the sources, but instead endorsed the book based on the conclusion it reached.