Author Topic: Will the new SSPX Superior General strike an old tone?  (Read 1336 times)

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Offline Mr G

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Will the new SSPX Superior General strike an old tone?
« on: July 14, 2018, 06:34:52 AM »
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  • https://akacatholic.com/will-the-new-sspx-superior-general-strike-an-old-tone/

    From Louie:

    On 11 July 2018, the Priestly Society of St. Pius X (FSSPX) elected a new Superior General – Fr. Davide Pagliarani, until then, the District Superior of Italy.

    Based on its public commentary of the past two years or so, it is unfortunately difficult to say what the SSPX considers its greatest challenges in the present day.

    I’ve written rather extensively in this space about the mixed and contradictory messages that have been coming from the SSPX in recent years. I won’t repeat those concerns here other than to say that a sincere seeker of truth today may very well come away from their website more confused than ever as to what is, and what is not, consonant tradition.

    As of this moment, it seems that the SSPX has lost sight of the grave necessity of having a very clear and consistent public stance on the current state of affairs in the Church; offering bold and unambiguous condemnations of every blasphemy and heresy that comes forth from men in authority who are trusted by many.

    Doing so in our day requires, above all, a willingness to address head-on the unprecedented mockery that is being made of the papacy. One thinks back to October of 2013 and Bishop Fellay’s public declaration, which has since faded into a deafening silence, “We have in front of us a genuine Modernist!”

    Returning to such clarity and conviction, in my view, is the major task that lies before the SSPX, and only time will tell if the election of a new Superior General will make a difference in this regard.

    One thing is certain: To the extent that the SSPX is pleased to operate – as it has appeared of late – under the assumption that it is enough to simply minister to their own, to focus on priestly formation, and to manage their own internal affairs, while taking care not to offend neo-conservative sensibilities, it will ultimately fail to adequately serve the needs of God’s people in the present day.
    Writing in the August 2008 issue of Si Si No No, Fr. Pagliarani said of Vatican II:
    The very finality of the Council, convoked with the explicit intention not to define truths of faith and not to condemn error (cf. Gaudet Mater Ecclesia), inaugurated a magisterium with a novel method and approach… the Second Vatican Council was convoked not to define dogmas, correct errors, or condemn doctrinal deviations as in the past, but to bond with the modern world. This decision to leave aside any intention of imposing certain truths of faith meant that the Council was intended to abstain from teaching in the objective, traditional, and magisterial sense of the term.

    These words were written nearly a decade ago and one wonders:

    Does Fr. Pagliarani believe that the Society has a duty to teach in the objective, traditional, and magisterial sense of the term, and if so, does he still believe that this necessarily involves correcting errors and condemning doctrinal deviations, otherwise it will merely be bonding with the modern world?

    We shall see. In the meantime, let us pray and fast for the SSPX and for Fr. Pagliarani, as clearly he has a lot of important work to do.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Will the new SSPX Superior General strike an old tone?
    « Reply #1 on: July 14, 2018, 09:07:51 AM »
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  • Quote
    Writing in the August 2008 issue of Si Si No NoFr. Pagliarani said of Vatican II:
    The very finality of the Council, convoked with the explicit intention not to define truths of faith and not to condemn error (cf. Gaudet Mater Ecclesia), inaugurated a magisterium with a novel method and approach… the Second Vatican Council was convoked not to define dogmas, correct errors, or condemn doctrinal deviations as in the past, but to bond with the modern world.
    .
    The "explicit intention" alluded to is also found in the Opening Speech of Vatican II, spoken out loud by Pope John XXIII, on October 11th, 1962. Additionally in the same speech, he said, no more shall the Church seek the condemnation of error but rather to apply the "medicine of mercy." Problem with that is, God's mercy is not "medicine!" The Church's role is not to overlook error but to identify it and denounce it publicly.
    .
    And not so explicit but seen by the actions from the start of the same council was the determination not to address the greatest threat to the Church's existence, perhaps in all of history, that is, atheistic Communism. Some 400 plus bishops, including ABL, followed the rules to bring to the floor a discussion of Communism but the controlling liberals somehow "lost" the paperwork.
    .
    These three facts of history ought to be enough to render Vat.II null and void. But that's going to take a very strong Pope or perhaps another Council, such as on that re-convenes Vatican I, which has never been closed, only postponed. Vatican II never mentioned anything about continuing or re-opening Vat.I. It took on an entirely new direction, away from Vat.I.

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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Will the new SSPX Superior General strike an old tone?
    « Reply #2 on: July 14, 2018, 11:42:15 AM »
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  • Let's face it. The General Chapter changes are just a distraction.

    As planned, the SSPX did their 180 degree flip. 

    There is no longer a "Crisis in the Church".

    Pagliarani is just a pawn in the game.  End game is newChurch control of Catholic tradition.

    Most of us were sucked into the ruse.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Will the new SSPX Superior General strike an old tone?
    « Reply #3 on: July 14, 2018, 11:59:08 AM »
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  • It's good that Louie sees that there are problems with the SSPX leadership. But he doesn't see the bigger picture and the problem with Bp. Fellay that goes all the way back to GREC.

    Some here believe that the SSPX is toast, and it's like beating on a dead horse to hope for change. However, it's not totally hopeless until the SSPX ACTUALLY reconciles with Rome. Until then, we can still have hope.

    Offline jvk

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    Re: Will the new SSPX Superior General strike an old tone?
    « Reply #4 on: July 14, 2018, 12:07:47 PM »
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  • But it's so liberal!  Many of the younger generation--the ones raising children now--are more liberal than their parents were.  I don't think it will ever be the same without a major miracle (read Chastisement!).  I know of many SSPX parents my age and younger who allow TV, modern music, modern movies, IPads, their girls to wear pants, etc in their homes.  And they just don't see anything wrong with it. 


    Offline Ekim

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    Re: Will the new SSPX Superior General strike an old tone?
    « Reply #5 on: July 14, 2018, 12:14:06 PM »
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  • Does anyone know for certain is +Fellay placed himself in serious contention for a third term?  If he was a serious contender and lost to Fr.P. that would give insight to a potential change in direction.  However, if he stepped aside so his protege’ could take over than we can anticipate the same ol’, same ol’

    Offline X

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    Re: Will the new SSPX Superior General strike an old tone?
    « Reply #6 on: July 14, 2018, 12:32:40 PM »
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  • Does anyone know for certain is +Fellay placed himself in serious contention for a third term?  If he was a serious contender and lost to Fr.P. that would give insight to a potential change in direction.  However, if he stepped aside so his protege’ could take over than we can anticipate the same ol’, same ol’
    According to the SSPX mouthpiece, Catholic Family News, +BF stepping aside is precisely what happened:
    https://www.catholicfamilynews.org/blog/2018/7/14/reflections-on-the-election-of-the-new-superior-general-of-the-society-of-st-pius-x

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Will the new SSPX Superior General strike an old tone?
    « Reply #7 on: July 14, 2018, 03:51:11 PM »
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  • According to the SSPX mouthpiece, Catholic Family News, +BF stepping aside is precisely what happened:
    https://www.catholicfamilynews.org/blog/2018/7/14/reflections-on-the-election-of-the-new-superior-general-of-the-society-of-st-pius-x

    Maybe the CFN article by Brian McCall needs a thread of its own, but the first paragraph is interesting. He says that..."Several websites and forums that host comments aligned with the so-called "Resistance" denounced Fr. Pagliarani as a liberal "company man" who would swiftly move toward a compromise with Rome."

    Well, I don't know what Resistance sites he is referring to (maybe he reads this one), but he's right that at least Fr. Pagliarani has been denounced as a liberal company man here and elsewhere, for good reason. But I don't recall it being said on this forum that he will indeed move swiftly toward a reconciliation with Rome. There's a big worry that that may happen, but we don't know how swift it will be. McCall didn't say anything about the concern for the General Chapter and what could possibly be decided at it, which is a concern for us.

    McCall also said later in the first paragraph...."The simple answer is that the SSPX is a (and arguably the) sign of contradiction for the modern Church."

    Well, what does Mr. McCall think about the SSPX not criticizing the Vll Council anymore, and for the most part, not criticizing Pope Francis when he steps out of line, which is quite often?  What does Mr. McCall think about the fact that the SSPX doesn't use the term "Modernism" anymore to describe the situation in the Church? Evidently, he is fine with the new orientation. How is the SSPX any more a sign of contradiction than say, the FSSP, or other Ecclesia Dei communities?

    I don't see much difference between Ecclesia Dei and the SSPX regarding what the leadership stands for. Though there are individual priests in the SSPX who still denounce the Council, modernism, etc, even though the SSPX leadership does not do so anymore.


    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Will the new SSPX Superior General strike an old tone?
    « Reply #8 on: July 14, 2018, 04:29:39 PM »
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  • But it's so liberal!  Many of the younger generation--the ones raising children now--are more liberal than their parents were.  I don't think it will ever be the same without a major miracle (read Chastisement!).  I know of many SSPX parents my age and younger who allow TV, modern music, modern movies, IPads, their girls to wear pants, etc in their homes.  And they just don't see anything wrong with it.
    That is absolutely the truth and I can verify! Almost all of the young folk getting married and starting families in the SSPX are soft liberal modernists who are ok with just about anything anymore. They have become 1950’s Sunday Catholics. No fight, no zeal, just gotta get to Mass on Sunday! That’s it. They’re more interested in who they’re drinking beers with that afternoon then what the priest has to say!

     

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