Author Topic: Will the Bishops of the Society have ordinary jurisdiction? (Read 2191 times)

Nishant · « **on:** December 05, 2015, 04:34:18 AM »

In another recent thread, Magna Opera Domini asked, "Will establishment as a personal prelature give the Society bishops ordinary jurisdiction?"

I thought this could be discussed in another thread, if Matthew has no objection; hence this poll. My own answer is yes, because it's hard to see how it could not. In a recent communique, Bishop Fellay also indicates rather matter-of-factly that the Holy Father's proposal - the details of which are not yet fully known - would give His Excellency and the other Society Bishops ordinary jurisdiction, to wit, "As a result of the Pope’s act, during the Holy Year, we will have ordinary jurisdiction. In the image I mentioned, this has the effect of giving us the official insignia of firefighters, whereas such a status was denied us for decades. In itself, it adds nothing new for the Society, its members, or its faithful. Yet this ordinary jurisdiction will perhaps reassure people who are uneasy or others who until now did not dare to approach us."

So, what do the others here think, will the Society's Bishops, come December 8th, be able in every way to function as Ordinaries? Will they have, for instance, the power to pass binding judgments, ironically, on annulments? The power to excommunicate, and the like, that comes with what Vatican I describes as "that ordinary and immediate power of episcopal jurisdiction, by which bishops, who have succeeded to the place of the apostles by appointment of the Holy Spirit, tend and govern individually the particular flocks which have been assigned to them" and which Pope Pius XII explained as follows, "each Bishop feeds the flock entrusted to him as a true shepherd and rules it in the name of Christ. Yet in exercising this office they are not altogether independent but are subordinate to the lawful authority of the Roman Pontiff, although enjoying ordinary power of jurisdiction which they receive directly from the same Supreme Pontiff."?

TKGS · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2015, 06:55:20 AM »

Since Bergoglio has no authority to grant jurisdiction in the Catholic Church, there will be no real change one way or another.

On the other hand, the SSPX has already been granted ordinary jurisdiction in the Conciliar sect to hear confessions. To the extent that the SSPX priests are valid priests (which is most of them, the exceptions being those few Conciliar priests who have come to the SSPX and have not been, at least, conditionally ordained), their true (supplied) jurisdiction to hear confessions will remain unchanged.

As for whether or not the rumors in regards to December 8th are true, I have no idea.

Raphaela · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2015, 09:32:51 AM »

As far as I know, he hasn't granted them any specific jurisdiction, which would be a formal act and have to be put in writing. He's just said they (will) give valid absolutions. The Vatican accepts that already, as priests who join the FSSP, for example, don't have to repeat all their former confessions.

So Pope Francis is now confirming there is a state of emergency...

ark of covenant · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2015, 11:52:42 AM »

Will the bishops have ordinary jurisdiction. Does not a bishop i order to have jurisdiction have to have a diocese. Maybe in this agreement the will be given a titular diocese of an ancient defunct see to give them OJ.
Also was not bishop Fellay given OJ to punish naughty priest, so maybe he has it already making this a superfluous question. Also Bishop de Galaretta set up a new Dominican convent, this seems to be authority over the Dominicans thus also OJ.
I am interested in any replies to these questions.

obediens · « **Reply #4 on:** December 05, 2015, 12:09:52 PM »

No, because they aren't ordinaries of any territory - diocese or prelature.

Bishops have NO jurisdiction over religious orders, what the SSPX has done re: the Dominicans for example would never have happened in normal times.

Magna opera Domini · « **Reply #5 on:** December 05, 2015, 12:49:35 PM »

I voted no because I believe the conciliar church is not the Catholic Church and therefore its prelates do not themselves possess OJ. You can't give what you don't have.

AJNC · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2015, 10:32:02 PM »

This thread put up by an Accordista in the know leads me to conclude that this Judas story at least, will end "happily" with the granting of "jurisdiction".

BJ5 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 07, 2015, 11:40:27 AM »

I voted "other" because it would appear that the intent was to only provide the faculties to hear Confession and as they are priests first who have attained the full measure of priesthood in the episcopacy, this would apply to them. However it doesn't appear to apply to the other functions and duties of the episcopacy. Most priests would argue that to be given the jurisdiction to hear Confession automatically infers full ordinary jurisdiction, but even then, it is not obvious to me that would also be true for a bishop. For instance, an auxiliary Bishop still needs to be supplied jurisdiction by the Ordinary and does not have the jurisdiction to operate as a Bishop just by virtue of his Consecration.

Methinks such an arrangement is probably unprecedented in church history, but it falls under the canons of church law and a true Pope is the final legislator and arbiter of Canon Law. Burgolio is much too vague by design on all important matters, except global warming, to finesse the terms of this boon he is providing to the SSPX.

But it does raise the question of whether the SSPX Bishops would be given a titular See if/when the Society is "regularized".

poche · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2015, 04:46:23 AM »

Will the Bishops of the Society have ordinary jurisdiction?

If they signed an agreement then they would have the jurisdiction that the Holy Father gives them. as of right now, it is it is around noon in Rome and I haven't seen any evidence that they have signed anything.