Author Topic: Why Vigano conditional consecration NOT being shouted from rooftops (Read 6718 times)

Angelus · « **Reply #30 on:** January 07, 2024, 08:41:53 PM »

https://www.gloria.tv/post/W9VRuTRzouEA4vcGWFHBHY7Mo/replies

Quote

Archbishop Vigano in an interview: And in the meantime, what can be done?

While waiting for this unworthy parody of the Catholic hierarchy to be replaced by holy bishops and holy priests – because it is saints that we need – we can help those who are rediscovering the true priesthood and the true religious vocation and who are persecuted and ostracized for this reason.

In fact, Exsurge Domine is not addressed to those – like the members of the Society of St. Pius X or of other canonically independent institutes – who are already in Tradition, but to those who are approaching it with good will, coming from the troubled ecclesial realities of today. I am speaking of parish priests who discover the old Mass, of monks who want to live in fidelity to the Rule, of young Catholics who wish to serve the Lord but understand that they cannot be formed in Bergoglian seminaries or convents Lord, grant us holy priests...

I'm not sure which Vigano "interview" that quote came from, but I think it is important for everyone on Cathinfo to understand Vigano's audience and mission (as he sees it). He's not trying to convert the Sedes or the other Trads. He's trying to be a bridge to the valid Sacraments for the traditional Novus Ordites.

Angelus · « **Reply #31 on:** January 07, 2024, 09:33:31 PM »

Full Interview here:

https://exsurgedomine.it/231230-caldart-eng/

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5 Gennaio 2024

2023, Interviste
TRUTH TRIUMPHS WHEN IT IS DENIED
Quotidiano Web
OPPRESSA VINCIT VERITAS
Andrea Caldart interviews Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò
https://www.quotidianoweb.it/inchieste/interviste/mons-carlo-maria-vigano-la-verita-trionfa-quande-negata/

For over three years, Monsignor Carlo Maria Viganò, through his videos and messages, has revealed the truth about the narrative of the great deception we are experiencing. Starting from the Great Reset, then passing through Davos, without neglecting any argument concerning the violation of the individual rights of all peoples, Archbishop Viganò highlighted the worldwide intertwining of the diabolical plan hatched by the globalist elite. The heartfelt appeals of the high Prelate are aimed at strengthening the truth against the “satanic evil” that – warns Archbishop Viganò – is invading the world, to lead it towards a precipice not only of economic collapse, but above all in the direction of an irreversible moral abyss, as if to say that there is no more religion. For the one who today to all intents and purposes, is recognized as the spiritual “defender” or rather the spiritual “commander” of all that multitude of people in the world who have decided to try to fight the “diabolical” power of evil, represented by the artful creation of fake pandemics, attacks on sovereign debts, financial and energy crises, deprivations and restrictions of individual freedoms, Archbishop Viganò represents the only true symbol of the defense of the common good and of civil society as we knew them. In this exclusive interview, we talk with Archbishop Viganò, not forgetting the past, but trying to imagine how to preserve and continue the world, beyond the single way of thinking.

Archbishop Viganò, thank you first of all for accepting this interview. Starting from the words of Saint Peter: “Resistite fortes in fide,” we ask you: how can we resist today, so that our witness to the truth is not constantly manipulated?

Resistance to power – civil or ecclesiastical – when it abuses its authority is one of the most heroic forms of civic and religious sensibility. The Martyrs, who do not obey men but God, resisted the abuse of power: refusing to burn incense to Caesar, refusing to embrace heresy or schism, opposing the profession of faith to the abuses of liberal or communist governments, proclaiming the Catholic Truth against secularist and materialistic tyranny. But all these martyrs – from those killed at the Colosseum and the Circus Maximus to the Catholics still persecuted in the Chinese communist dictatorship with the complicity of the Vatican – would not have deserved the palm of victory if they had put their trust in themselves, rather than in God. The heroism of martyrdom – of the witness of faith – is an act of humility, because the martyr recognizes that he is powerless and allows God to give him the strength and courage to sacrifice his own life.

We know that Christ has already won, and that He reserves the right to celebrate His final triumph after He has called us to fight alongside Him to give us the opportunity to share in His victory. But in the meantime Satan still tries to nullify the fruits of the Redemption, snatching from Christ as many souls as he can. What? By the oldest deception in the world: You will be like gods. Contemporary society, founded on revolutionary and Masonic principles that deny the universal Lordship of Christ the King, proves to be necessarily anti-Christian and antichristic precisely when it is founded on fraud, that is, on the rejection and falsification of the Truth, because it is Christ who said of Himself: I am the Way, the Truth, the Life. Satan is the opposite: he is perdition, he is a lie, he is death. Let us not be surprised, therefore, if his servants manipulate or censor the truth by turning it against those who proclaim it: the devil is a spirit of lies and knows nothing but to lie, attributing his falsehoods to others.

Oppressa vincit veritas: truth triumphs when it is denied. Precisely in these moments of crisis and lies, the more the truth is betrayed, the more it is destined to shine. All the falsehoods that have been imposed on us in recent years – the psychopandemic fraud, the climate emergency, gender theory, the Ukrainian war – are collapsing in the face of the evidence of truth and this reality can neither be silenced nor hidden any longer. The day will come – very soon – when the masses will understand the criminal deception against them and hold those responsible to account, who will then no longer be able to hide behind the institutions that have protected and favored them.

Let’s take a small leap back in time: we all have imprinted in our memory the image of a Pope who alone on March 28, 2020 climbs the steps of a cold and deserted St. Peter’s Square, as if to impersonate the language of media terror of the time, reinforcing that climate of fear into which the peoples had fallen, can he represent the decline of the clerical Church?

The self-centered exhibitionism of that March 28 showed us two things. On the one hand, the Argentine Jesuit is an emissary of the globalist elite, a dutiful executor of orders, and flaunts it with the arrogance of one who believes himself untouchable. On the other hand, that this brazen demonstration of subservience to the elite ends up making even the most naïve and gullible understand that Jorge Mario Bergoglio has been placed on the throne to demolish the Church of Christ, by those who have admitted to having placed their recruits from the World Economic Forum at the head of Western governments. If Bergoglio is capable of dressing up as Pope to carry out the task assigned to him, it must not have been a great effort to act out that play in the rain, in which he ratified the pandemic fraud and gave a testimonial for the experimental gene serum. I imagine that commercial made him quite a bit in terms of the gratitude of the elite, and we can also understand why the fraud we witnessed would not have been possible with either Benedict XVI as Pope or Donald Trump as President of the United States; one torpedoed well in advance, the other close to the psychopandemic by the same characters headed by the Obamas and Clintons, McCarrick and the St. Gallen Mafia.

If by “clerical church” we mean the sect that has occupied the Vatican and the dioceses of the world for the past sixty years and especially in this last decade, we can certainly say that the discredit it has brought upon itself is making Catholics understand that a global coup d’état is underway and that the subversives are using their authority to strike at the institution they represent.

Those who want to destroy an institution – the Church, the State, the Judiciary, the Armed Forces, the Doctors, the Media – act on two fronts: on the internal front, bribing its representatives, so that they discredit it before the people with their abuses, their oppression, their scandals; on the external one, attributing corruption to the institution itself, and not to its unworthy members. The moral and doctrinal corruption of the clergy is instrumental to the destruction of the ecclesial body, just as the corruption of the French aristocracy was preparatory to the destruction of the Monarchy of divine right, or as the corruption of the parties in the eighties gave the pretext for Mani Pulite [Clean Hands] and abdication of national sovereignty in favor of the globalist synarchy.

On the other hand, the very presence of corrupt people in the institution makes it possible to make them approve aberrations that honest and upright officials would never legitimize. It is easy for the UN to push for the lowering of the age of consent and the consequent decriminalization of pedophilia, if perverts and pedophiles lurk at the top of the State and the Church. And it is relatively easy to obtain their complicity, if they are blackmailable or corruptible.

How can we hope for the salvation of Christian civilization?

Christian civilization is the result of a social order, to build which centuries, sacrifices, lives were necessary; and which survives in its last vestiges despite the media hammering of cancel culture and woke ideology. This social order is based on the divine order: as in heaven, so on earth. And just as in heaven Jesus Christ, the God-Man, is universal King, so every earthly power, from that of kings to every civil and ecclesiastical authority, is and must be a vicarious expression of the universal Lordship of Christ. All power originates from God, says St. Paul. And this authority must necessarily be a Christian authority, because it finds its legitimacy and its limits only in coherence with the authority of Christ.

He who obeys, obeys Christ who commands through His representatives on earth; he who commands, commands in the name of Christ and knows that he cannot command anything contrary to Our Lord. If the divine legitimacy of authority and its vicarious function are lost, it is transformed into tyranny, because it has no limit set from above and there is no eternal and transcendent norm to which subjects can appeal to escape from it.

The crisis of Authority has also extended to the Natural Law, at the moment when it does not pursue the bonum commune – as any power, even a pagan one should do – but even becomes an enemy of the citizens. The betrayal of the social pact renders this authority illegitimate, and the subversives who usurp it must be denounced and prosecuted.

For at least more than two centuries, the Revolution has indoctrinated generations of young people with the myth of democracy, making them believe that the political class really has the interests of the nation and the good of the citizens at heart, while for two centuries the international Masonic lobby has ruled.

Therefore, if we want to get out of this labyrinth, the first thing to do is to return to Christ, to give Him back that crown that the Revolution has usurped from Him by deception.

In a recent interview you declared that: “The next conclave will constitute a provocation” and that “Bergoglio’s logic is to create a schism”: which Church are we going towards? Will it still be the Church of God, or will we see a “progressive modernization” with new figures and new rainbow creeds?

The Church is one and belongs only to Christ, who is its divine Head, of whom the Pope is Vicar. Bergoglio has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he is acting as an emissary of the deep church to discredit the Papacy and the Catholic Church, and this is repugnant to the role assigned by Christ to St. Peter and his Successors. All he has accomplished in these ten years is the carrying out of the subversive project organized by the Anglo-American deep state, as emerged from John Podesta’s emails published with Wikileaks. Immigrationism, ecuмenism, neo-Malthusian environmentalism, democratization of the Church, health policies, gender equality, cancel culture, woke ideology: there is not a single point of the Agenda 2030 that has not found in Bergoglio a very zealous executor. Even the latest, scandalous and abominable Declaration Fiducia Supplicans that authorizes (and imposes) the blessing of concubinary and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples constitutes another tick on the list of tasks assigned by the globalist elite to the Argentine Jesuit, with the complicity of the St. Gallen Mafia, and is so unprecedented that it has already provoked immediate protests, including the prohibition of its application by many Dioceses and entire Episcopal Conferences.

As can be seen, Fiducia Supplicans has already achieved one of its aims: to arouse the indignation of Catholics – lay people and clerics – to push them to distance themselves from the sect of Santa Marta. The other objective is to legitimize de facto a form of recognition of irregular unions without immediately arriving at the marriage of divorcees or sodomites, on the model of the “de facto couples” or “pacs” that the civil authority approved twenty years ago in many nations. Those unions, in the reassuring statements of politicians, should not have called into question traditional marriage: two decades later we see how the “pacs” were the penultimate step before arriving at gαy marriage, and if Bergoglio is moving today to do the same thing in the ecclesiastical sphere, it is because he knows and wants sacramental marriage to also be achieved for two men and two women.

But what should not escape us about this tactic, as cunning as it is devastating, is that while the moderates are at pains to remind us that Prefect Tucho Fernandez has reiterated that marriage is only between a man and a woman and that therefore “there is no change in doctrine,” they do not seem to notice that in the meantime the Declaration Fiducia supplicans issues binding norms for all the Dioceses, and we know well that if a Bishop dares to express any criticism of the Satrap, the Vatican immediately responds violently with depositions, deprivation of salary, discrediting actions and canonical sanctions. Imagine with what serenity any of the most fearful Bishops existing today would dare to contest what alone, in other times, would have been enough to lock up the Argentine in a cell in Castel Sant’Angelo.

Some may object that Fiducia Supplicans is being opposed by many Bishops, which in itself is a very good thing. But the mentality behind this and other Vatican docuмents is precisely the synodalization of the Church, giving each Bishops’ Conference the possibility of making disciplinary and magisterial decisions as if they were schismatic national churches. Dioceses with good Bishops may perhaps hope not to execute Bergoglia’s diktats (until they are dismissed by him), and those with progressive Bishops will be unleashed on all fronts, going far beyond what the Vatican docuмent hypocritically establishes: the German Dioceses have already announced that they want to officially bless ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples as such.

I would like to point out that while conservatives recognize Bergoglio as the legitimate Pope but at the same time understand that all his action is deliberately divisive, progressives do not recognize Bergoglio as the Vicar of Christ, but as an exponent of their faction that by usurping the Papacy can now achieve the desired results. Bergoglio is their “pope” precisely because he has nothing in common with any Pope who preceded him, and the Argentine Jesuit himself has taken over the Papacy to use it against its own end: it is the question of the defect of consent that I have spoken of in my recent interventions.

In the Gospel of Luke 21 it is written: “Jesus said to his disciples, ‘When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you will understand that it will be taken, and those who bow their head will be able to lift it up, so that they may be saved.’” Today there is a bloody genocide in that part of the world: do you think the words of the Evangelist Luke will come true and what should we expect?

Zionism is a heresy of Judaism, born with the Zionist Congress of Basel in 1897 and developed in the αѕнкenαzι milieu. Orthodox Jews believe in the coming of a personal Messiah, whom Catholics recognize in Jesus Christ but whom they still await. The Zionists, on the other hand, believe that the Messiah is the State of Israel, deifying it and thus legitimizing the horrors and crimes of which they have been guilty for decades and which we have seen taking place in the Gaza Strip in recent weeks. It is no coincidence that the Zionists consider Orthodox Jews as enemies, just as the Modernists consider traditionalist Catholics as enemies.

The infiltration of Zionists into all Western and Atlanticist nations is evident and recognized by themselves. It is thanks to this that the Israeli Mossad, through blackmail, keeps governments and information in check, as well as owning the entire financial and economic system. When the crimes committed by these rulers, politicians, magistrates, actors, journalists and prelates come to light in all their horror, the Zionists will no longer be able to blackmail them, and their power over the nations will therefore be lost.

Your commitment was not limited to sending video messages, but you founded the Exsurge Domine Association for: “The awareness of a serious ecclesial crisis, which has recently reached a real persecution of priests and religious who do not bow to apostasy and betrayal of the Church of Christ.” Would you like to tell us about the projects you have started to realize?

“I could go down in history as the one who divided the Church,” Bergoglio said in 2016. It seems to me that this fate is confirmed by an uninterrupted series of highly divisive actions and statements, culminating in this last year with the open persecution of the good and the arrogant protection of corrupt and perverted characters.

Bergoglio shows himself to be a proponent of conflicts and schisms: the disruptive action of the Argentine Jesuit is based on his capacity for blackmail and intimidation, knowing full well that heretical clerics and prelates are aware that they can move with the utmost freedom, while those faithful to the Magisterium fail to understand that disobeying Bergoglio not only does not in the least question the Papacy, but rather protects it. For this reason, the disobedience of the bad to the Magisterium is all the more brazen the more it aligns itself with the Satrap, while the resistance of the good is decidedly not incisive and effective. The Fiducia Supplicans scandal, however, had the merit, so to speak, of touching on one of those so-called non-negotiable values that have remained substantially intact under the two previous pontificates, so that a not inconsiderable part of the world’s Catholic Episcopate has become aware of the threat that that Vatican docuмent constitutes for the very survival of the Church. The increasingly open opposition to that shame desired by Bergoglio and imposed by Fernandez – which he is now clumsily trying to downplay – is proof of Bergoglio’s betrayal and the premise for putting an end to this disastrous “pontificate.”

And in the meantime, what can be done?

While waiting for this unworthy parody of the Catholic hierarchy to be replaced by holy bishops and holy priests – because it is saints that we need – we can help those who are rediscovering the true priesthood and the true religious vocation and who are persecuted and ostracized for this reason.

In fact, Exsurge Domine is not addressed to those – like the members of the Society of St. Pius X or of other canonically independent institutes – who are already in Tradition, but to those who are approaching it with good will, coming from the troubled ecclesial realities of today. I am speaking of parish priests who discover the old Mass, of monks who want to live in fidelity to the Rule, of young Catholics who wish to serve the Lord but understand that they cannot be formed in Bergoglian seminaries or convents. These vocations must be helped to rediscover the beauty of the Catholic Faith and its Liturgy, the heroism of holiness, in a process of recovery and reconstruction that requires patience, perseverance, discipline and – necessarily – longer times of conversion. The mission of Exsurge Domine is also to revive – above all through preaching and apostolate – that Catholic conscience devastated by decades of post-conciliar life. In this spiritual battle, we want to welcome and help with paternal charity those who want to fight for the Lord, but realize that it is necessary to reacquaint themselves with the weapons of prayer, penance, study, and the interior life.

In this perspective, the Collegium Traditionis was also born, a house of traditional clerical formation in which to prepare the priests of tomorrow with the help of the good priests of today. It is a project that requires a great financial commitment and that will only be able to see its realization thanks to the donations of many generous people. I appeal to all Catholics to contribute to this initiative, which is the only one born in Italy and for Italy, for the spiritual rebirth of our country, for the greater glory of God and the sanctification of souls.

2Vermont · « **Reply #32 on:** January 08, 2024, 06:37:27 AM »

Quote from: Angelus on January 07, 2024, 08:41:53 PM

https://www.gloria.tv/post/W9VRuTRzouEA4vcGWFHBHY7Mo/replies

I'm not sure which Vigano "interview" that quote came from, but I think it is important for everyone on Cathinfo to understand Vigano's audience and mission (as he sees it). He's not trying to convert the Sedes or the other Trads. He's trying to be a bridge to the valid Sacraments for the traditional Novus Ordites.

Good point.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #33 on:** January 08, 2024, 06:46:48 AM »

Quote from: Angelus on January 07, 2024, 08:41:53 PM

https://www.gloria.tv/post/W9VRuTRzouEA4vcGWFHBHY7Mo/replies

I'm not sure which Vigano "interview" that quote came from, but I think it is important for everyone on Cathinfo to understand Vigano's audience and mission (as he sees it). He's not trying to convert the Sedes or the other Trads. He's trying to be a bridge to the valid Sacraments for the traditional Novus Ordites.

Well, not just valid Sacraments but Traditional Catholicism in general. That has always appeared to be +Vigano's audience. Since he was a high-ranking Conciliar prelate, he's become known among conservative Novus Ordites, among Trad Inc., etc. He realizes that there's no need for yet another Traditional Catholic group, and that he would just be preaching to the choir in addressing his various letters to them.

Some of us have inferred this from the beginning, that the reason he's tried to be careful is that he's trying to lead Conciliar conservatives who are of good will, step by step, and gradually, from where they're at, to Traditional Catholicism.

When Bishop Williamson, for example, puts out his "Eleison Comments," he's hardly getting any notice from the Conciliar types, as they dismiss him out of hand as some schismatic. But +Vigano is getting a lot of mention on the conservative Novus Ordo outlets and is making news. So he's realizing the position that God's Providence has put him in, to be able to influence these types. It's also why I believe he takes one step at a time, and also why he's not too keen on publicizing his conditional consecration. He doesn't want to abruptly get cut off from these venues from within which he can influence these types.

Since God brought him to Tradition late, he sees God as having put himself in the role of drawing out the conservatives who remain, and perhaps it's a "last ditch" effort, by God, to draw people out of the Conciliar Church, those who remain there still in good faith. I think he's taking on the role of an "apostle" to the Conciliar conservatives who may also be moving "late" toward Traditional Catholicism, not unlike how St. Paul was converted late and became the Apostle to the Gentiles.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #34 on:** January 08, 2024, 08:52:12 AM »

Quote

Since God brought him to Tradition late, he sees God as having put himself in the role of drawing out the conservatives who remain, and perhaps it's a "last ditch" effort, by God, to draw people out of the Conciliar Church, those who remain there still in good faith. I think he's taking on the role of an "apostle" to the Conciliar conservatives who may also be moving "late" toward Traditional Catholicism, not unlike how St. Paul was converted late and became the Apostle to the Gentiles.

Yes. And, in the practical order, these people are convert-like, in the sense that there is much of Tradition they don't know, and much of their "old life" they need to discard. +Vigano is trying to go slow with them, which is wise. You don't throw everything at a convert at once; learning the Faith is a process.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #35 on:** January 08, 2024, 09:00:30 AM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on January 08, 2024, 08:52:12 AM

Yes. And, in the practical order, these people are convert-like, in the sense that there is much of Tradition they don't know, and much of their "old life" they need to discard. +Vigano is trying to go slow with them, which is wise. You don't throw everything at a convert at once; learning the Faith is a process.

Yes, it's always been about prudence. +Vigano realizes that there's no need for another typical Traditional Catholic group out there. We have plenty of those. What he's trying to do is to appeal to the Conciliars. That's how he sees his mission.

Soubirous · « **Reply #36 on:** January 08, 2024, 10:00:43 AM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on January 08, 2024, 08:52:12 AM

+Vigano is trying to go slow with them, which is wise. You don't throw everything at a convert at once; learning the Faith is a process.

Yet there are days when +V perceives that a shock to the system is in order, as quoted below with emphasis added: https://twitter.com/CarloMVigano/status/1744347265123160184

Quote

The blasphemous sewer regurgitations of Tucho’s repulsive pamphlet show such a level of perversion and alienation to the Faith as to demand the expulsion manu militari of the Argentinean and his accomplices. The Swiss Guards have sworn to defend the See of Peter, not the one who is systematically demolishing it. Let them therefore be faithful to their oath and arrest these heretical perverts!

(Stuff blowing up this morning about tantric Tucho... Seek out the sordid details elsewhere if you wish but do keep the eye bleach nearby. Debates among the twitterati as to what this latest old-news-surfacing is really all about, given the timing and the known tendency of the Santa Marta resident toward Peronist puppeteering.)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #37 on:** January 08, 2024, 10:15:39 AM »

+Vigano:

Quote

The blasphemous sewer regurgitations of Tucho’s repulsive pamphlet show such a level of perversion and alienation to the Faith as to demand the expulsion manu militari of the Argentinean and his accomplices. The Swiss Guards have sworn to defend the See of Peter, not the one who is systematically demolishing it. Let them therefore be faithful to their oath and arrest these heretical perverts!

I love it.

What's funny is that while SSPX and the Ukrainian Major Archbishop and the Hungarians all issued these very soft responses, the latter two basically just saying, "Uhm, yeah, we're not going to do that here.", +Vigano has been out there calling Bergoglio "the False Prophet" and a "servant of Satan", and now calling for the Swiss guard to arrest these "heretical perverts".

There was, however, one African bishop at least who called it heresy.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #38 on:** January 08, 2024, 10:21:03 AM »

Quote from: Soubirous on January 08, 2024, 10:00:43 AM

Stuff blowing up this morning about tantric Tucho...

Hmm. Haven't heard about that, but he does just look like a pervert.

Even the Conciliars were going after him for defending the child rapist priest ...
https://www.ncregister.com/cna/bishop-accountability-group-voices-concerns-about-archbishop-fernandez-appointment

trento · « **Reply #39 on:** January 08, 2024, 01:01:08 PM »

Quote from: Angelus on January 07, 2024, 08:41:53 PM

https://www.gloria.tv/post/W9VRuTRzouEA4vcGWFHBHY7Mo/replies

I'm not sure which Vigano "interview" that quote came from, but I think it is important for everyone on Cathinfo to understand Vigano's audience and mission (as he sees it). He's not trying to convert the Sedes or the other Trads. He's trying to be a bridge to the valid Sacraments for the traditional Novus Ordites.

There is no such thing as traditional Novus Ordites if you think the Novus Ordo can ever be traditional. Unless you are speaking about neoconservatives that in reality are actually Modernists with some traditional lipstick?

Angelus · « **Reply #40 on:** January 08, 2024, 01:19:33 PM »

Quote from: trento on January 08, 2024, 01:01:08 PM

There is no such thing as traditional Novus Ordites if you think the Novus Ordo can ever be traditional. Unless you are speaking about neoconservatives that in reality are actually Modernists with some traditional lipstick?

No, I don't believe the NO "celebration" can ever be considered traditional.

What I meant was that there are many confused people in "the Church" today. There are also many locations throughout the world where there are no TLMs or traditionally-ordained priests.

Some people do actually try to live their lives as traditional Catholics but are afraid to separate from the Counterfeit Church or they don't have good options locally. They attend the indult or ED institute masses if available, but they also will attend the NO to comply with their Sunday and Holy Day Obligations when necessary. They don't understand the distinctions we talk about on Cathinfo. Not all are Modernist heretics.

TKGS · « **Reply #41 on:** January 08, 2024, 02:03:10 PM »

Imagine how Christianity would have spread had the Apostles told everyone that the know a guy who heard that that someone was told that Jesus rose from the dead.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #42 on:** January 08, 2024, 03:03:47 PM »

Quote from: TKGS on January 08, 2024, 02:03:10 PM

Imagine how Christianity would have spread had the Apostles told everyone that the know a guy who heard that that someone was told that Jesus rose from the dead.

Well, in a sense, isn't that where we're at? "We know a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy [... add about 50 more ...] who knew one of the Apostles who witnessed Jesus Risen from the dead."

TKGS · « **Reply #43 on:** January 08, 2024, 04:50:58 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on January 08, 2024, 03:03:47 PM

Well, in a sense, isn't that where we're at? "We know a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy [... add about 50 more ...] who knew one of the Apostles who witnessed Jesus Risen from the dead."

No. That's not where we're at. We have the Apostles' eye-witness testimony in writing. I guess you forgot that some of them wrote down their experiences for us to read. All I've heard was people tell me that it's been verified...but they won't even tell me how it's been verified, unless I missed that particular post, which is entirely possible, please point it out to me if I did. At the moment, we don't even have anyone reporting that they witnessed the event!

Both of these gentlemen have channels of communication and they can post their personal testimony for all the world to see.

Soubirous · « **Reply #44 on:** January 08, 2024, 05:10:23 PM »

He's also busy lately with denouncing Mossad and Pizzagate. Let's hope that +V is in an "undisclosed location".

Author Topic: Why Vigano conditional consecration NOT being shouted from rooftops (Read 6718 times)

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