Author Topic: Why Trad-cumenism is required, but Ecumenism is sinful  (Read 703 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Why Trad-cumenism is required, but Ecumenism is sinful
« on: March 27, 2017, 01:45:55 PM »
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  • So many Catholics fail to distinguish the ESSENTIAL from the OPTIONAL. They fail to distinguish issues of certainty (i.e., we must save our souls; the Novus Ordo Mass is dangerous and noxious to the Faith itself) with issues open for debate, or optional (i.e., the status of the recent Popes).

    To prove it, some people don't understand the difference between Ecumenism, and Trad-ecumenism. People actually call me Trad-ecumenist as a derogatory term! As if there's only "One True Trad Group" the way there is "One True Church"!

    A Traditional Catholic is defined as: a person who deals with the Crisis in the Church by leaving the Conciliar Church and seeking out true (valid, properly formed) priests and true Sacraments/Mass (the Tridentine Mass) and not asking anyone's permission to do so.

    By this definition, Sedevacantist, independent, SSPX, and Resistance would all qualify as Traditional Catholics.

    Ecumenism is bad and mortally sinful because the One True Church is put on the same level as all the false religions (which ultimately come from the devil). However, it is not just good but REQUIRED to remember that "your group" isn't the only Catholic Trad group.

    Objectively, yes, God might have a favorite Trad group. But He hasn't revealed it to anyone yet, at least not publicly and decisively.

    So, in conclusion: show me a man who grumbles and calls Matthew of CathInfo "a blasted trad-cumenist" and I'll show you a man who is sectarian, and borderline schismatic (like the Dimond Brothers).

    Sure, some Trad groups are better than others, and I believe they could be ranked. God certainly has them ranked in exact order of His preference, from the best to the worst. But none of us has access to that information. Even though some Trad leaders have problems, some might even have diabolical influence, sinful habits, psychological problems, etc. that doesn't change the fact that their group is still a legit Trad lifeboat.

    Some lifeboats might be inferior, some might be leaking, some might be sinking. But if it's a Trad group, it's a lifeboat and thus it is legitimate to call them all "lifeboats" using the same term for all -- placing them on a peer relationship with each other. This is far from wrong -- it's the only way to avoid being sectarian.
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    Offline cath4ever

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    Re: Why Trad-cumenism is required, but Ecumenism is sinful
    « Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 03:09:14 PM »
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  • While I'm not sure I would sign-on to this opinion regarding all trad groups (only because I don't know what groups are on the OP's list), I definitely agree with this in principle, and fiercely practice it myself, albeit covertly with some of the groups/priests.


    Offline Jovita

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    Re: Why Trad-cumenism is required, but Ecumenism is sinful
    « Reply #2 on: March 27, 2017, 05:37:40 PM »
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  • Lifeboats, yes, because without them, good or bad, we simply slip beneath the waves and perish.

    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Re: Why Trad-cumenism is required, but Ecumenism is sinful
    « Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 05:44:05 PM »
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  • Lifeboats, yes, because without them, good or bad, we simply slip beneath the waves and perish.


    Believe it or not, a lifeboat with a hole in it, is not a lifeboat. This is according to Church philosophy of ontology. And when we see a lifeboat we know has a hole, we are bound in conscience to warn others that it really is not a lifeboat because of its hole.


    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Why Trad-cumenism is required, but Ecumenism is sinful
    « Reply #4 on: March 27, 2017, 07:53:21 PM »
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  • I would like to add:

    We can and should argue about the fitness of this or that lifeboat -- argue about whether or not there is a hole in this or that lifeboat. It's shows we care. It shows we love the truth, and that we love the salvation of souls. We should strive to figure out (with our prudence -- enlightened by our intellect) which is the best (safest, surest) lifeboat to help us stay alive (keep the Faith). And when you've found a treasure, you should want others to be as happy and well-set as you are.

    But during these arguments, we must keep things in perspective. We are not Catholics arguing with Lutherans, we are Traditional Catholics arguing with Traditional Catholics. There is a world of difference!

    Because if they are Traditional Catholic, they are Traditional Catholic. Period. If they are dealing with the Crisis in the Church by leaving the Conciliar Church and seeking out true priests and true Sacraments/Mass (the Tridentine Mass) and not asking anyone's permission to do so, they are Traditional Catholic. Whether you agree with their group/leader or not.

    And yes, if they claim to be Traditional Catholic, then they are Traditional Catholic! You or I doesn't get to cast people out of the Church on our decree or say-so. What are we, private armchair popes? The only alternative to accepting each self-proclaimed Trad as a real Trad is for you (or your priest, bishop, or group) to judge and/or excommunicate them. And in that case, you are sectarian, possibly schismatic, and acting as a de-facto Pope!

    Another point:

    I'm not insisting that "all lifeboats are equal". No, there is an exact ranking or hierarchy. But that exact hierarchy is only known to God. And God hasn't made that list known to any man. So we must consider our fellow Trad groups as soldiers ON OUR SIDE even if not in the same platoon -- and certainly not waste ammo shooting at them!

    A little bit of arguing "which group is best" goes a long way. You should only spend 10% of your fighting time on such things. For every hour you argue SSPX vs. Resistance, you should spend 5 hours arguing with protestants, Novus Ordo, or Modernists (but I repeat myself).
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