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Author Topic: Why the resistance will fail  (Read 10334 times)

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Offline dreamtomorrow

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Why the resistance will fail
« on: February 09, 2014, 01:58:29 PM »
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  • B. Williamson isn't leading (he didn't leave-they forced him, maybe he'd still be there if it were up to him. He also purposefully didn't sign the recent declaration because it endorsed a seminary, which he is against) , we need him to go out and convince priests/superiors. The signatures bore no fruit and more than one was retracted. B. Fellay isn't going to sign agreement because he's getting what he wants without it and if there had been agreement people may have reacted so SSPX superiors are going to go the slow route. Also because majority of resistance supporters do and will continue to go to SSPX chapels until they see heresy which they won't. How you maintain hope?


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #1 on: February 09, 2014, 02:05:14 PM »
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  • Pray to God and our Blessed Mother for guidance.
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #2 on: February 09, 2014, 02:26:33 PM »
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  • Fail to do what?  Fail to set up another organized priestly society, like the SSPX?  In that sense, it will fail to a degree.

    The true faith cannot disappear, so in a generic sense "resistance" to modernist errors will not fail.  It just might not come with a nice home-schooling network, regular mass times, regular worship space or a drive to mass under an hour.

    +ABL never wanted a bishop to be SG, because of the confusion it causes the faithful.  I'm sure this, in part, has motivated H.E. Williamson's "hands off" approach.  



    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #3 on: February 09, 2014, 02:42:57 PM »
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  • Depends on the area, too.

    Someone posted on here today that there were ten people at their Resistance mass today.  I wasn't counting, but we probably had forty, maybe more.

    And of course, there are priests all across the world.  It is certain that there is a significant (though not majority) dissent towards Fellay & Co.

    It also depends on what you mean by "the Resistance."  If meant just generally to refer to those priests who have left or been expelled from the SSPX (as well as the faithful who have left), it's not like now that they're not affiliated with the SSPX that they just all fall into the same group by the fact.

    Those who have left are unified in that they do not want to deal with heretics in Rome.  But after that, more division begins.  There are disagreements to organization.  Should "the Resistance" be worldwide, with a superior general?  Or should there be different chapters, governing themselves according to location, each with a provincial head?  Or should it be entirely informal, with worldwide mass-circuits?  Then of course you have the ecclesiastical differences, as there are sedevacantists, non-sedevacantists, anti-sedevacantists, etc.  It seems to me that at least in the American Resistance, sedevacantist priests wouldn't be welcome to join with Fr. Pfeiffer, at least according to Fr's emphatic anti-sedevacantism.  In South America, would sedeplenist priests be welcome to aid the sedevacantist priests?  And then, of course, since each area is co-ordinated by laypeople (exception in Bostn, KY, I suppose) there are naturally personality conflicts since there isn't even a figurehead of authority in the group.


    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 04:19:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Fail to do what?  Fail to set up another organized priestly society, like the SSPX?  In that sense, it will fail to a degree.

    The true faith cannot disappear, so in a generic sense "resistance" to modernist errors will not fail.  It just might not come with a nice home-schooling network, regular mass times, regular worship space or a drive to mass under an hour.

    +ABL never wanted a bishop to be SG, because of the confusion it causes the faithful.  I'm sure this, in part, has motivated H.E. Williamson's "hands off" approach.  






    These are no times for “hands off” approach. ABL consecrated four bishops in 1988. What would he do today with the Roman apostates openly attacking doctrine? Bishop Williamson has to follow his own conscience, but if he is serious about defending the faith, at the very least he should consecrate bishops for every traditional order to insure their continuance without any compromise in the future. Those orders can also administer Confirmation to the faithful. If H.E. dies without doing a magnanimous deed such as consecrating bishops, his omission would have been much greater than ABL's, had he not consecrated the four.  May +Williamson fulfill his duties in a manner pleasing to God and beneficial to His Church.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #5 on: February 09, 2014, 05:28:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Fail to do what?  Fail to set up another organized priestly society, like the SSPX?  In that sense, it will fail to a degree.

    The true faith cannot disappear, so in a generic sense "resistance" to modernist errors will not fail.  It just might not come with a nice home-schooling network, regular mass times, regular worship space or a drive to mass under an hour.

    +ABL never wanted a bishop to be SG, because of the confusion it causes the faithful.  I'm sure this, in part, has motivated H.E. Williamson's "hands off" approach.  






    These are no times for “hands off” approach. ABL consecrated four bishops in 1988. What would he do today with the Roman apostates openly attacking doctrine? Bishop Williamson has to follow his own conscience, but if he is serious about defending the faith, at the very least he should consecrate bishops for every traditional order to insure their continuance without any compromise in the future. Those orders can also administer Confirmation to the faithful. If H.E. dies without doing a magnanimous deed such as consecrating bishops, his omission would have been much greater than ABL's, had he not consecrated the four.  May +Williamson fulfill his duties in a manner pleasing to God and beneficial to His Church.


    You act like because he has not yet consecrated bishops that he never will.

    You realize that ABL did not consecrate bishops until a few years before he died, yes?

    Patience.  
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline John Grace

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #6 on: February 09, 2014, 05:30:29 PM »
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  • Those who "resist from within" need to be clearer.

    Offline John Grace

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #7 on: February 09, 2014, 05:32:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: dreamtomorrow
    B. Williamson isn't leading (he didn't leave-they forced him, maybe he'd still be there if it were up to him. He also purposefully didn't sign the recent declaration because it endorsed a seminary, which he is against) , we need him to go out and convince priests/superiors. The signatures bore no fruit and more than one was retracted. B. Fellay isn't going to sign agreement because he's getting what he wants without it and if there had been agreement people may have reacted so SSPX superiors are going to go the slow route. Also because majority of resistance supporters do and will continue to go to SSPX chapels until they see heresy which they won't. How you maintain hope?


    Remaining at SSPX chapel is part of problem.One must give their all to the resistance.


    Offline Ecclesia Militans

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #8 on: February 09, 2014, 06:09:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    Quote from: dreamtomorrow
    B. Williamson isn't leading (he didn't leave-they forced him, maybe he'd still be there if it were up to him. He also purposefully didn't sign the recent declaration because it endorsed a seminary, which he is against) , we need him to go out and convince priests/superiors. The signatures bore no fruit and more than one was retracted. B. Fellay isn't going to sign agreement because he's getting what he wants without it and if there had been agreement people may have reacted so SSPX superiors are going to go the slow route. Also because majority of resistance supporters do and will continue to go to SSPX chapels until they see heresy which they won't. How you maintain hope?


    Remaining at SSPX chapel is part of problem.One must give their all to the resistance.

    Yes.

    Offline John Grace

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #9 on: February 09, 2014, 06:22:23 PM »
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  • One doesn't know the mind of Almighty God or his plan for the resistance.

    Offline Ekim

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #10 on: February 09, 2014, 06:28:23 PM »
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  • No one is addressing the EXCELLENT point brought up by dreamtomorrow.   Bishop Williamson did not leave the SSPX because he courageously stood up against the Modernist +Fellay.  Rather, he was thrown out.  He says over and over that these things have been brewing in the SSPX since the early 90's.  Why didn't he point this out then?  He let this disease fester for DECADES.  How can it be expected that now he will rise up and lead?

    I have spoken to more than one old time SSPX priest.  Each one commented when talking about Fr. Hewko and Pfeiffer that one of the main reasons they could not join was because they have no Bishop.   Without a Bishop they cut themselves off from the Church.  Without this "root", they will eventually wither and die.

    Like Dreamtomorrow, I believe that many more priests would "hop off the fence" if they knew there was a trusted Bishop at the helm.


    Offline AJNC

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #11 on: February 09, 2014, 11:34:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ecclesia Militans
    Quote from: John Grace
    Quote from: dreamtomorrow
    B. Williamson isn't leading (he didn't leave-they forced him, maybe he'd still be there if it were up to him. He also purposefully didn't sign the recent declaration because it endorsed a seminary, which he is against) , we need him to go out and convince priests/superiors. The signatures bore no fruit and more than one was retracted. B. Fellay isn't going to sign agreement because he's getting what he wants without it and if there had been agreement people may have reacted so SSPX superiors are going to go the slow route. Also because majority of resistance supporters do and will continue to go to SSPX chapels until they see heresy which they won't. How you maintain hope?


    Remaining at SSPX chapel is part of problem.One must give their all to the resistance.

    Yes.

    Yes? Where I am in India the local Resistance organizer turns up for SSPX Masses.I don't attend the Resistance Masses because of a personality clash I have with two of the Resistance priests. Obviously some people are in luck. They now get Mass both from the SSPX and the Resistance.

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #12 on: February 09, 2014, 11:52:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ekim
    No one is addressing the EXCELLENT point brought up by dreamtomorrow.   Bishop Williamson did not leave the SSPX because he courageously stood up against the Modernist +Fellay.  Rather, he was thrown out.  He says over and over that these things have been brewing in the SSPX since the early 90's.  Why didn't he point this out then?  He let this disease fester for DECADES.  How can it be expected that now he will rise up and lead?

    I have spoken to more than one old time SSPX priest.  Each one commented when talking about Fr. Hewko and Pfeiffer that one of the main reasons they could not join was because they have no Bishop.   Without a Bishop they cut themselves off from the Church. Without this "root", they will eventually wither and die.

    Like Dreamtomorrow, I believe that many more priests would "hop off the fence" if they knew there was a trusted Bishop at the helm.


    Is the bolded part their words our yours?

    Hopefully yours, as it's completely and utterly wrong and a priest, especially an old one, should know better.  Bishop Williamson, like Bishop Fellay, enjoys no mission from the Church.  They do not represent Her through formal apostolic succession, and as such, a Catholic does not owe them obedience, and a Catholic not being "united to" or "allied" with them has absolutely zero impact on whether or not such a person is still a Catholic.

    If they meant it in context of needing a bishop to be the figuredhead of a group, if they are old priests then they should know that ABL never wanted a bishop to lead the group because of the confusion it would cause the faithful; mainly viewing the SSPX as a parallel Church-- confusion which is evident both on the part of the NSSPX faithful and the Resistance faithful.



    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline reconquest

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #13 on: February 10, 2014, 12:09:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Is the bolded part their words our yours?

    Hopefully yours, as it's completely and utterly wrong and a priest, especially an old one, should know better.  Bishop Williamson, like Bishop Fellay, enjoys no mission from the Church.  They do not represent Her through formal apostolic succession, and as such, a Catholic does not owe them obedience, and a Catholic not being "united to" or "allied" with them has absolutely zero impact on whether or not such a person is still a Catholic.

    If they meant it in context of needing a bishop to be the figuredhead of a group, if they are old priests then they should know that ABL never wanted a bishop to lead the group because of the confusion it would cause the faithful; mainly viewing the SSPX as a parallel Church-- confusion which is evident both on the part of the NSSPX faithful and the Resistance faithful.


    They could simply have meant it in the sense that a group will lose its footing without a bishop to perform ordinations, administer the sacrament of confirmation etc. An organization with a priest at the head and bishops further down the hierarchy would effectively remedy the situation described above.
    "There's a mix of passion and shortsightedness in me, even when I'm positive that I'm doing my very best to see things for what they are, that warns me that I'll never know for sure. Undoubtedly I must follow the truth I can see, I have no choice and I must live on; but that is for me only, not to impose on others." - Fr. Leonardo Castellani

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Why the resistance will fail
    « Reply #14 on: February 10, 2014, 12:18:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: reconquest
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Is the bolded part their words our yours?

    Hopefully yours, as it's completely and utterly wrong and a priest, especially an old one, should know better.  Bishop Williamson, like Bishop Fellay, enjoys no mission from the Church.  They do not represent Her through formal apostolic succession, and as such, a Catholic does not owe them obedience, and a Catholic not being "united to" or "allied" with them has absolutely zero impact on whether or not such a person is still a Catholic.

    If they meant it in context of needing a bishop to be the figuredhead of a group, if they are old priests then they should know that ABL never wanted a bishop to lead the group because of the confusion it would cause the faithful; mainly viewing the SSPX as a parallel Church-- confusion which is evident both on the part of the NSSPX faithful and the Resistance faithful.


    They could simply have meant it in the sense that a group will lose its footing without a bishop to perform ordinations, administer the sacrament of confirmation etc. An organization with a priest at the head and bishops further down the hierarchy would effectively remedy the situation described above.


    Bishop Williamson has made it clear that he is willing to perform that function for Catholics who need it.  He can do it without "heading" the group.

    The Archbishop was against having a bishop as the leader of a traditional group.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).