Author Topic: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions  (Read 2277 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2021, 02:16:24 PM »
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  • "And the eyes of them both were opened : and when they perceived themselves to be naked, they sewed together fig leaves, and made themselves aprons."(Gen 3, 7)
    Is there not any probability for the first sin as sɛҳuąƖ on this sentence?
     

    Some, but only  about as much "probability" as me being at a baseball game simply because I'm wearing a baseball cap.

    But the larger context would show the absurdity: I'm sitting in my living room.

    A Genesis context shows  a similar absurdity of equating nakedness in Eden with pre-Fall sex IMHO.

    This reminds me of Conciliar explanations for the rejection of pro multis in favor of "for all" in the consecration of the wine:

    :laugh1:


    Non enim omnes qui ex Israel sunt, ii sunt Israelitae (Roman 9:6)

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
    « Reply #46 on: May 25, 2021, 03:03:31 PM »
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  • God bless Apollo, Andrew Kim and others for defending the Poem.

    It is worth a go, but some on here are driven by a demonic hatred of it.
    I have no dog in this fight, but those who vociferously defend "the Poem" as if it were "the Holy Bible" sound like a bunch of cultists.  

    It's one reason why I try not to focus so much on private revelation, approved or not.    
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
    « Reply #47 on: May 25, 2021, 03:53:09 PM »
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  • Quote
    I have no dog in this fight, but those who vociferously defend "the Poem" as if it were "the Holy Bible" sound like a bunch of cultists. 
    Yes.  Very weird.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
    « Reply #48 on: May 25, 2021, 04:28:19 PM »
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  • Ladi, if you are going to calumniate the Bishop, then don't depend on a sleazy report from a trashy tabloid. Shame on you and get to Confession.

    That you, Xavier?

    I didn't have to "depend" on anything other than the Bishop's own words.  If you have problems with the homo-eroticism in Valtorta, that's because it is YOU who have a corrupt mind ... tsk tsk.  If YOU have an issue with Our Lord making an impure suggestion about St. Peter and His Mother, then there's something wrong with you.  That's a disgraceful answer and requires one to question Bishop Williamson's own awareness of homo-eroticism.  Either he's too blind to see it (which explains the Urrutugoity affair one way) or he think's it can be justified by a "pure mind" (which explain the Urrutigoity affair another way).  Flip a coin.

    His only response to the doctrinal problems is that they "don't deserve to be taken seriously."  Really?  That's the best he has?

    Both accusations he merely dismisses out of hand, and even turns the accusations of impurity against the accusers, claiming that there's something wrong or corrupt with the person who has an issue with some of the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ nastiness in the book.  That does give pause to wonder about the Bishop's sensibilities with regard to homo-eroticism.

    Offline Emile

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    Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
    « Reply #49 on: May 25, 2021, 06:54:31 PM »
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  • .
    So ignore him, because YOU may be wrong.  What makes YOU the
    expert on Valtorta?  How many pages have you read and compared
    every line on every page to your GREAT knowledge of Catholic theology,
    which you learned at which college ???
    .
    Or did you read all the "experts" at the den of hate, called CathInfo.
    What qualification makes you, or Bishop Williamson, Valtorta experts?

    Are either of you better educated than Cardinal Ottaviani or Msgr. Giovanni Pepe or Father Berruti, O.P.?

    What type, quality and quantity of degrees would make you change your mind?

    You seem lacking in Catholic sensibility. The Poem was condemned while Catholics still had some power in the Vatican (first in 1949, formally placed on Index 1959). The thread from a couple of months ago demonstrated that said condemnation was never lifted (unless you want to believe in undocumented "verbal imprimaturs").
    As a Catholic I am not free to disregard said condemnation without a substantial reason. Bishop Williamson does not seem disposed to offer anything of substance on the matter, and you seem incapable of doing so.

    Quote
    Or did you read all the "experts" at the den of hate, called CathInfo.
    I've read CathInfo for a number of years. While the members have their faults, in the main I find them to be decent people trying to be good Catholics. I feel quite honored to be included in their number and am quite happy to be despised by you and your ilk.
    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer


    Offline XavierSem

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    Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
    « Reply #50 on: May 25, 2021, 09:12:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    That you, Xavier?

    No. You quoted Cebu, how could that be me?

    Anyway, from the PDF: "10. THE HOLY OFFICE AUTHORIZES THE SECOND EDITION

    In December of 1960, Fr. Berti was called to the Holy Office and was received by Fr. Mark Giraudo, O.P., Commissioner of that Congregation, who was very amiable. Fr. Berti, seeing that this time he could handle it calmly, related to the Commissioner the words ("Publish [it]") given in audience by Pope Pius XII in 1948, and brought to him photostats of the certifications on the Life of Jesus [i.e., The Poem...] by Maria Valtorta —three of these certifications turned out to be drawn up by the consultants of the Holy Office, that is, those by Fr. [later, Cardinal] Bea, S.J., by Msgr. Lattanzi and by Fr. Roschini, OSM.

    Fr. Giraudo, who knew nothing of the words of Pius XII and of the certifications of these three personages of the Holy Office itself, after having received Fr. Berti many times, after having himself consulted with his Superiors and having pondered on the certifications, spoke these words: "Continue to publish this second edition. We will see how the world receives it."

    And thus The Poem came out, and continues to come out, not only by order of Pius XII, but also with the approval of the Holy Office. (1961)." [pg 478]
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
    « Reply #51 on: May 26, 2021, 03:53:00 AM »
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  • Quote
    EENS canards have always been the most reliable indicator, the red flag, at the very least that the person has a chink in his armor. In the case of Abp. L, it is the key to understanding his recorded wavering comments between R&R and sedevacantes. I call them EENS sophists, and if one can say sophisms like ""saved in any religion" doesn't mean "saved by that religion", how can anyone wholeheartedly believe that they mean anything they say about any subject? That is why you will scarcely ever find me debating about EENS with anyone, before I get them to admit exactly what they believe AND it is rare to find one that honestly answers. The truth is that they believe that anyone can be saved in the last second of their life by God, therefore,  "Who knows who is outside of the Church?"

    Always keep in mind that Bp. Williamson, Bp. Fellay and Abp. L are all EENS sophists.  So do not take everything that they teach and believe as some kind of dogma. Does that mean that we should reject them totally? No, it does not, it just means that they are not perfect, but in our times, they are as good as it gets when it comes to orthodox bishops. "In the country of blind men that one eyed man is a king". 

    Bp. Williamson promoting Valtorta  is no surprise to me. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
    « Reply #52 on: May 27, 2021, 10:45:17 AM »
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  • This thread reinforces an earlier decision to hold CI at arm's length, and to stay away from the forum for the most part.  Some members here are capable of monumental arrogance and stupidity.  But Struthio outdoes them all in his latest, whitheringly stupid offering:


    Quote
    I hate that "poem" because it's on the Index. And I believe that even praying the Holy Rosary won't help those who disdain the institutions of the Church, like e.g. the Index.
    There are a few of you left, however, still able to reason and think cogently about real issues.  I include Apollo and Xavier on that extremely short list.  Keep up the good work.


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
    « Reply #53 on: May 27, 2021, 11:35:12 AM »
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  • This thread reinforces an earlier decision to hold CI at arm's length, and to stay away from the forum for the most part.  Some members here are capable of monumental arrogance and stupidity.  But Struthio outdoes them all in his latest, whitheringly stupid offering:

    There are a few of you left, however, still able to reason and think cogently about real issues.  I include Apollo and Xavier on that extremely short list.  Keep up the good work.
    K

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
    « Reply #54 on: May 27, 2021, 03:40:48 PM »
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  • And if someone finds a joke from Our Lord about St. Peter having corrupted His Mother offensive and unbecoming of the All-Pure God, then it's because it is THEIR mind that's corrupt? 
    I tried googling this but I didn't find any relevant results. What does the Poem "quote" Our Lord as saying here?

    Offline Emile

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    Re: Bishop Williamson Answers 4 Questions
    « Reply #55 on: May 27, 2021, 03:51:23 PM »
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  • I tried googling this but I didn't find any relevant results. What does the Poem "quote" Our Lord as saying here?

    https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/saintly-maria-valtorta's-poem-great-spiritual-reading-for-lent-like-mcog/15/


    Reply #17 on: March 15, 2021, 11:03:03 PM »
    Quote from: XavierSem on March 14, 2021, 10:10:58 AM
    Quote

    Some who hardly read 5 or 10 pages of the book, take one or two misunderstood passages, out of context.

    Second, one passage where St. Peter wanted to adopt a son, and this was granted only through Mother Mary's intercession. Completely taken out of context by those who most probably have not read the entire book. Read the original and it is clear.

    Sources later if necessary. It is great spiritual reading
    Here's a little gem from your "great spiritual reading"

    ( https://valtorta.org/request_of_mary__defaultpage.html )

    "Yes, let it be done as Your wish."  Jesus stands up and calls out loud: "Simon of Jonas: come here."
     Peter starts and rushes down the steps.  "What do You want, Master?"
    "Come here, you usurper and corrupter!"
     "Me? Why? What have I done, Lord?"
    "You have corrupted My Mother.  That is why you wanted to be alone (with Mary).  What shall I do with you?"
    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer


     

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