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Poll

Who’s response to Traditionis Custodes are you more excited to read: +Viganò’s or SSPX’s?

+Viganò’s, because it is likely to be more doctrinally to the point
8 (27.6%)
SSPX’s, because we can then better gauge whether they will disentangle from modernist Rome
4 (13.8%)
I’m equally excited for both!
10 (34.5%)
I couldn’t care less about either!
4 (13.8%)
+Vigano or SSPX, but for different reasons (explain below)
3 (10.3%)

Total Members Voted: 26

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Author Topic: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?  (Read 1296 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
« on: July 20, 2021, 09:37:21 AM »
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    • If you checked “Other,” please explain.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #1 on: July 20, 2021, 10:02:20 AM »
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    • What about Ratzinger?   :laugh1:
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #2 on: July 20, 2021, 10:06:54 AM »
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    • +Vigano, because he will be clear, doctrinal and (hopefully) damning.
    New-sspx, because I want to admire their spin-zone eloquence.
    .
    Really, want I most want to read is +Vigano's response ABOUT the new-sspx's spin.  I hope there is one.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #3 on: July 20, 2021, 10:50:43 AM »
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    • I just hope Vigano will practice some measure of discretion and diplomacy. 

    Don't get me wrong, I'd give my ear to be chopped off --- think the warehouse scene in Reservoir Dogs ("Stuck In The Middle With You")--- if Francis could be extricated from the papal chair, one way or the other, and be replaced by Vigano, but his writings, which grew increasingly strident in tone, may have contributed to the present situation.  (I don't imagine Francis was terribly happy about being tricked into appearing to favor Kim Davis either.)

    I don't think Francis particularly cares what the SSPX says.  His hands-off approach to them makes me wonder if there is something going on behind the scenes, as I alluded to in another thread.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #4 on: July 20, 2021, 11:02:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on July 20, 2021, 10:50:43 AM
    ...Vigano, but his writings, which grew increasingly strident in tone, may have contributed to the present situation.

    Interesting you say that, because I just came across this article in First Things, which says the same:

    "That survey of bishops on the EF was underway last year just as Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò launched his full-scale attack on Vatican II. Viganò found an echo in the traditional liturgy corner of the Internet, and their embrace of him no doubt contributed to the measures taken by Pope Francis. Viganò has been a thorn in the side of the Holy Father, but he is in self-imposed hiding. His supporters, many of whom frequent the EF, are not—and can be penalized.
    Viganò and his Internet promoters are voluble and, to a certain extent, influential. Yet there are vast numbers who attend the EF quite independent of the arguments he makes. They were going to the EF long before he made them. Many likely pay no attention to Internet chatter, just as your typical parishioner in the OF is blissfully unaware of many apparent roiling Church controversies."
    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2021/07/for-pope-francis-the-mass-is-the-message

    Of course, for my own part, this was a positive decelopment overall, as more and more are going to see what Francis really is, and react against him.  He said he wasn't afraid of schism.  Well, he might just have set the ball in motion for an eventual worldwide rejection of conciliarism and conciliarists.

    His side of the schism is impotent, while Vigano's/our side of the "schism" is electric.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #5 on: July 20, 2021, 11:05:52 AM »
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    I don't think Francis particularly cares what the SSPX says.  His hands-off approach to them

    Is he able to have a "hands on" approach though?  They own all their properties and run their own organization.  What can he do?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #6 on: July 20, 2021, 11:09:20 AM »
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    • Quote
    Of course, for my own part, this was a positive decelopment overall, as more and more are going to see what Francis really is, and react against him.  He said he wasn't afraid of schism.  Well, he might just have set the ball in motion for an eventual worldwide rejection of conciliarism and conciliarists.

    Right, +Vigano needed to say what he said.  It's 70 years overdue.  You don't negotiate with terrorists and you don't play nice with heretics.  Truth needs to be spoken, for the good of souls.  He's woken up a lot of people and that's his job.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #7 on: July 20, 2021, 12:09:42 PM »
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    • I voted for #2 (SSPX response). We can be reasonably assured that +Vigano will have a logical and thorough response to Pope Francis' latest outrage MP.
    But we don't really know how the SSPX leadership will react. We can only hope that they see sense, and say and do the right thing, as Archbishop lefebvre would have done if he were still alive today. Though I doubt that Bp. Fellay will change his mind about his wanting to reconcile with Rome. He's too far gone. But it's not too late for the rest of the SSPX leadership and other clergy.
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    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #8 on: July 20, 2021, 12:27:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 20, 2021, 10:06:54 AM
    +Vigano, because he will be clear, doctrinal and (hopefully) damning.
    New-sspx, because I want to admire their spin-zone eloquence.
    .
    Really, want I most want to read is +Vigano's response ABOUT the new-sspx's spin.  I hope there is one.
    Vigano because he is the only one speaking against the evil.  
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #9 on: July 20, 2021, 12:28:24 PM »
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    • We saw the SSPX deal was done back in 2012.  They are owned by the local bishops.  
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    Offline WaitForTheDawn

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #10 on: July 20, 2021, 12:29:27 PM »
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    • Both... Vigano's will most likely be more to the point and blunt, but I am interested to see what the SSPX does in response to this. 
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #11 on: July 20, 2021, 07:04:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: WaitForTheDawn on July 20, 2021, 12:29:27 PM
    Both... Vigano's will most likely be more to the point and blunt, but I am interested to see what the SSPX does in response to this.
    So far, that seems to be the majority view.
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    Offline Username

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #12 on: July 20, 2021, 07:14:38 PM »
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    • Vigano, because his position is ever advancing and changing, manifesting a desire for the truth as opposed to the SSPX, who will stick to their R&R position even if their "pope" starts ordaining priestesses tomorrow.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #13 on: July 20, 2021, 09:42:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 20, 2021, 11:05:52 AM
    Is he able to have a "hands on" approach though?  They own all their properties and run their own organization.  What can he do?
    I meant that, as far as I could tell, TC did not mention the role of the SSPX in any of this.  I'm thinking PF might have in mind, that a certain percentage of traditionalists, if deprived of their diocesan Masses, will slide on over to the SSPX, and they will have what they want, while disappearing from the diocesan establishment, and not driving the "mainline" Church into any more of a traditionalist direction.  Out of sight, out of mind.  Quarantine them somewhere that they can be summarily dismissed as at least quasi-schismatic, where they can both be stigmatized for it, and put in a place where they can't influence people and events in parish churches anymore, both in the eyes of parishioners who will now (wrongly) view them as outside the Church, and through not being there to remind people that there is even such as thing as the TLM in the first place ("oh, we don't do that anymore, that's been banned"), on top of removing it as an option in parish life.

    And possibly they could be corralled together with other "indult" groups into a kind of "super-SSPX", as I noted in another thread.
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    Offline des Lauriers

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    Re: Who’s Response to TC are You More Excited to Read: +Vigano or SSPX?
    « Reply #14 on: July 21, 2021, 02:13:53 PM »
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