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Author Topic: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?  (Read 1555 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2024, 10:51:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: MarcelJude on April 10, 2024, 10:36:44 PM
    Send him to Padre Chazal's seminary at Hearts of Jesus & Mary Seminary in Cebu City of MCSPX. It's a great option because he can learn to become a missionary priest there and live a humble life as a simple, poor priest in the future.

    Why is he being “sent” anywhere?  He needs to make his own choice.  Not everyone is suited to the missionary vocation, nor everyone to the weekend circuit life.  He should decide, in consultation with a spiritual director, what suits him based on his perspective on the crisis and his temperament.  Many young men have been straight-jacketed into a certain type of priestly vocation contrary to their temperament and thus been ruined by it.  Bishop Sanborn is very flexible about where seminarians end up after ordination and the Resistance have a variety of options also.
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #16 on: April 11, 2024, 04:16:47 AM »
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    • Seminaries are an outmoded form of priestly formation. Whilst they were suitable and effective for the latter half of the second millennium, the changes in the both spiritual and temporal conditions that emerged in the 20th century have brought the Church to a new situation where priestly formation is better served by a tutorial model in which a single pupil or a small group apprenctice under a veteran priest for several years.

    However, given the reality that most Catholics are still attached to the seminary model, Most Holy Trinity under Msgr. Sanborn might be the best option because of the flexibility upon ordination.
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    Offline Croagh Patrick

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #17 on: April 11, 2024, 05:49:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: drcarvalho on April 10, 2024, 11:01:55 AM

    I would sent my (future) kids to Bp. Ballini. I think he's the best option in these days.
    I'd second that, from my experience with the seminarians there, all are happy there.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #18 on: April 11, 2024, 06:09:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 10, 2024, 10:51:21 PM
    Why is he being “sent” anywhere?  He needs to make his own choice.  Not everyone is suited to the missionary vocation, nor everyone to the weekend circuit life.  He should decide, in consultation with a spiritual director, what suits him based on his perspective on the crisis and his temperament.  Many young men have been straight-jacketed into a certain type of priestly vocation contrary to their temperament and thus been ruined by it.  Bishop Sanborn is very flexible about where seminarians end up after ordination and the Resistance have a variety of options also.
    I agree with much of what you said, but
    Bishop Sanborn won’t allow non Cassiciacuм thinkers nor those who believe you can go to an una cuм mass into his seminary. No thanks.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #19 on: April 11, 2024, 06:15:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on April 11, 2024, 06:09:30 AM
    I agree with much of what you said, but
    Bishop Sanborn won’t allow non Cassiciacuм thinkers nor those who believe you can go to an una cuм mass into his seminary. No thanks.
    Given Fr Cekada (RIP) was not a Cassiciacuм adherent and taught at the MHT seminary, I can't imagine this was the expectation at that time.  This must be a fairly recent change.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #20 on: April 11, 2024, 06:58:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on April 11, 2024, 06:09:30 AM
    I agree with much of what you said, but
    Bishop Sanborn won’t allow non Cassiciacuм thinkers nor those who believe you can go to an una cuм mass into his seminary. No thanks.

    Half true, half false.  Those who believe una cuм Masses are permissible would not be accepted but CT is not mandatory.  Bishop Sanborn said it explicitly in a video about prospective candidates for his seminary.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #21 on: April 11, 2024, 07:15:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 11, 2024, 06:15:43 AM
    Given Fr Cekada (RIP) was not a Cassiciacuм adherent and taught at the MHT seminary, I can't imagine this was the expectation at that time.  This must be a fairly recent change.
    Well, the requirement for seminarians to adhere to the CT is at least since Feb. 2022 (which is after Father died).  See @ minute 4:

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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #22 on: April 11, 2024, 08:41:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on April 11, 2024, 06:58:29 AM
    Half true, half false.  Those who believe una cuм Masses are permissible would not be accepted but CT is not mandatory.  Bishop Sanborn said it explicitly in a video about prospective candidates for his seminary.

    You are wrong, see what Vermont posted above.
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    Offline Mysterium Fidei

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #23 on: April 11, 2024, 10:30:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 11, 2024, 07:15:36 AM
    Well, the requirement for seminarians to adhere to the CT is at least since Feb. 2022 (which is after Father died).  See @ minute 4:


    Just a clarification, if you listen at the minute 4, Bp. Sanborn is speaking of priests who are received into his Roman Catholic Institute. He requires priests who go into his Institute to adhere to the Thesis so to prevent divisions within his Institution.

    Bp. Sanborn's policy regarding admission to the seminary has not changed. The Thesis is taught at the seminary, not as a dogma, but as a theological opinion. Seminarians are not required to adhere to the Thesis, but they cannot be members of the Roman Catholic Institute and they must be affiliated with an approved group in order to be ordained.

    For many years, Bp. Dolan sent seminarians to MHTS to be trained and they would be ordained by Bp. Dolan. Most of the priests affiliated with SGG went to seminary at MHTS, including Bp.McGuire and Bp. Nkamuke. Fr. Cekada used to come to the seminary monthly to teach. 

    If you start this video at the 11:07 mark, Bp. Sanborn explains his position.


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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #24 on: April 11, 2024, 10:34:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on April 11, 2024, 10:30:38 AM
    Just a clarification, if you listen at the minute 4, Bp. Sanborn is speaking of priests who are received into his Roman Catholic Institute. He requires priests who go into his Institute to adhere to the Thesis so to prevent divisions within his Institution.

    Bp. Sanborn's policy regarding admission to the seminary has not changed. The Thesis is taught at the seminary, not as a dogma, but as a theological opinion. Seminarians are not required to adhere to the Thesis, but they cannot be members of the Roman Catholic Institute and they must be affiliated with an approved group in order to be ordained.

    For many years, Bp. Dolan sent seminarians to MHTS to be trained and they would be ordained by Bp. Dolan. Most of the priests affiliated with SGG went to seminary at MHTS, including Bp.McGuire and Bp. Nkamuke. Fr. Cekada used to come to the seminary monthly to teach.

    If you start this video at the 11:07 mark, Bp. Sanborn explains his position.



    Before Bishop Dolan died there was a falling out between the two, if I’m not mistaken. I’m not convinced that he now limits adherence to Cassiciacuм solely to the Institute.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #25 on: April 11, 2024, 10:40:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on April 11, 2024, 10:30:38 AM
    Just a clarification, if you listen at the minute 4, Bp. Sanborn is speaking of priests who are received into his Roman Catholic Institute. He requires priests who go into his Institute to adhere to the Thesis so to prevent divisions within his Institution.

    Bp. Sanborn's policy regarding admission to the seminary has not changed. The Thesis is taught at the seminary, not as a dogma, but as a theological opinion. Seminarians are not required to adhere to the Thesis, but they cannot be members of the Roman Catholic Institute and they must be affiliated with an approved group in order to be ordained.

    For many years, Bp. Dolan sent seminarians to MHTS to be trained and they would be ordained by Bp. Dolan. Most of the priests affiliated with SGG went to seminary at MHTS, including Bp.McGuire and Bp. Nkamuke. Fr. Cekada used to come to the seminary monthly to teach.

    If you start this video at the 11:07 mark, Bp. Sanborn explains his position.


    Ah, this seems to explain why there is confusion here.  I'm happy to hear that the requirement is not for the seminarians.  

    Could you clarify the bolded then?  If not the RCI, what are the approved groups that would allow them to be ordained?

    ETA: Just watched the portion of the interview.  It looks like not joining the RCI makes it harder to find approved clergy for subsequent ordination.
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    Offline Mysterium Fidei

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #26 on: April 11, 2024, 10:45:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on April 11, 2024, 10:34:38 AM
    Before Bishop Dolan died there was a falling out between the two, if I’m not mistaken. I’m not convinced that he now limits adherence to Cassiciacuм solely to the Institute.
    The falling out was on the part of Bp. Dolan. Bp. Sanborn had not changed any policy. Bp. Dolan decided to pull his seminarians out of MHTS, because he did not want them to be taught the Thesis. 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #27 on: April 11, 2024, 10:49:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on April 11, 2024, 10:45:15 AM
    The falling out was on the part of Bp. Dolan. Bp. Sanborn had not changed any policy. Bp. Dolan decided to pull his seminarians out of MHTS, because he did not want them to be taught the Thesis.
    Yes, the whole affair was quite unfortunate.  Sad. 
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    Offline Mysterium Fidei

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #28 on: April 11, 2024, 10:50:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 11, 2024, 10:40:33 AM
    Ah, this seems to explain why there is confusion here.  I'm happy to hear that the requirement is not for the seminarians.  Could you clarify the bolded then?  If not the RCI, what are the approved groups that would allow them to be ordained?
    Well Bp. Sanborn and Bp. Dolan and Fr. Cekada used to work very closely together. SGG held the Totalist position, but there was never any problem. 

    I'm not sure what groups would be approved by Bp. Sanborn and as far as I know all of the seminarians currently are intending to become members of the RCI. Bp. Sanborn mentioned Fr. Zapp and Bp. Neville. They are not members of the Institute, but Bp. Neville does hold to the Thesis, so I don't know if he would ordain someone who did not adhere to the Thesis. 
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Where would you send your nephew to Seminary?
    « Reply #29 on: April 11, 2024, 10:52:08 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on April 11, 2024, 10:45:15 AM
    The falling out was on the part of Bp. Dolan. Bp. Sanborn had not changed any policy. Bp. Dolan decided to pull his seminarians out of MHTS, because he did not want them to be taught the Thesis.

    Is there any video or writing of his that supports his not requiring adherence for the seminary? With the lack of such evidence, it seems to me that one can assume that he does require it.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?
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