Author Topic: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?  (Read 2366 times)

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Offline Fanny

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Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
« on: November 12, 2017, 02:19:05 PM »
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  • Re:
    http://cor-mariae.com/index.php?threads/resistant-bishops-create-new-congregation-for-political-reasons.5066/

    "If you do not comply, Bp. Aquinas said you will not get the holy oils, sacraments, and ordainants of priests. "

    So I wonder where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?   The Church requires that old holy oils are to be destroyed each year and new ones obtained. 


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 07:29:30 PM »
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  • I, too, would like to know. A friend's grandchildren got baptized recently and without proper Holy Oils, doesn't this mean they did not get the exorcisms?  One may as well give lay baptism to suffice if and until it can be done propetly.  What about Last Rites?   May as well pray the prayers for the dying yourself and hope the person has perfect contrition.  Where do other so called independent priests get holy oils?  Or do they have an agreement with a bishop or will they at the least refer the dying to a real bishop, even if they aren't on good terms with him?  
    Without holy oils or any bishop, exactly how are the followers of OLMC supposed to be confirmed?  

    The wider problem is that it seems there is no longer assurance that any kind of priest, order, foundation, what have you, can be trusted to be valid, licit, and acceptable to God.  For myself, I pray the Rosary, wear the Brown Scapular, read the Missal, say daily prayers, do my job, perform necessary chores and otherwise keep to myself.  I'm not around others who have the least interest in serving God.  I've resigned myself to being a somewhat unwilling hermit.  


    Offline obediens

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #2 on: November 12, 2017, 08:00:53 PM »
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  • After a year, as long as the Holy Oils are not rancid, the Sacraments of Extreme Unction and Confirmation would still be valid, just illicit. Also, the Exorcisms in Baptism do not depend on the Oil. 
    I am sincerely sorry for any gossip, detraction, libel, slander, calumny, rumors, heresy, schism, false information, lies or half-truths which may have appeared in my posts. May God forgive me.

    Offline hismajesty

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 06:37:42 AM »
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  • After a year, as long as the Holy Oils are not rancid, the Sacraments of Extreme Unction and Confirmation would still be valid, just illicit. Also, the Exorcisms in Baptism do not depend on the Oil.

    The oils can also be "topped up". So a priest can go a long time without going to a bishop.

    The more important question is who is going to ordain his seminarians?

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 08:46:22 AM »
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  • Internecine squabbling is one thing, but holding innocent souls hostage to these sectarian hostilities is a grave enterprise, no matter who does it.

    In this, this new hierarchy is proving itself to be everybit a recreation of the SSPX, and speaking of cultic behavior, as has been imputed to the Pfeiffer group in other threads, it is clearly in evidence with these "resistance" clerics. It is a matter of "you have said bad things about our leader and therfore the souls under your care will be denied sacramental necessities by us, until you recant" Have we not heard this before from the Roi de Menzingen?

    Remember these people do not have the authority of the Church to use the sacramental order as a means of coersion or punishment, but in doing so regardless, they thwart the primary mission of the Catholic Church and its priesthood, which is to save souls and bring them to God.

    Conflicting over hostile statements between the sects is one order of worldly activity, but engaging the Divinely instituted Sacraments in these public squabbles is on an entirely different and higher order of scandal. 

    On the Pfeiffer/Hewko side,  Fr. Pfeiffer was encouraged to rebel against Menzingen. He did so, and when his continued agitation then began to upset ongoing negotiations between the SSPX and its estranged Bishop, Fr. Pfeiffer was essentially cut off and sacrificed and any future assistance to him became doubtful.

    And there appears to have been interference with other priests who became affiliated with the Pfeiffer group and supported their position on some of Bishop Williamson's views and teaching. That is apparently a grave crime in the petite SSPX.  Such great outrage at criticising the Bishop's questionable exhortations and conclusions, as if there were no grounds for any just criticism or correction.  His followers will admit no fault or doubt about his utterings, and they will tolerate none. His newly minted Bishops are identical in such attitudes. That is a fair indication of the same cultism that has been part of the SSPX for decades.

    Fr. Pfeiffer should or hopefully has, found alternate sources for their sacramental necessities. Perhaps putting his anti-sedevacantism on the shelf to seek them from a valid Bishop, a sede-vacantist or an Eastern Orthodox Bishop of the old Tradition.

    The normal impediments to this are unimportant and should be suspended in such a time of crisis and the near complete breakdown of authority and reason in the Church today.
    He should also leave SSPX I&II behind and focus on fighting against the treason in Rome and the Chanceries. Then he can claim that they are a true resistance.

    The war between these two faction was unnecessary and did not need to happen. There is much fault which could be apportioned to all concerned. When the parties began to act in self interest, trouble entered in, it is the tool and the doorway by which demons have their powers over men.

    I will pray for them all. 


    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 09:44:09 AM »
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  • Remember these people do not have the authority of the Church to use the sacramental order as a means of coersion or punishment,

    but in doing so regardless, they thwart the primary mission of the Catholic Church and its priesthood, which is to save souls and bring them to God.


    Conflicting over hostile statements between the sects is one order of worldly activity, but engaging the Divinely instituted Sacraments in these public squabbles is on an entirely different and higher order of scandal.

    On the Pfeiffer/Hewko side,  Fr. Pfeiffer was encouraged to rebel against Menzingen. He did so, and when his continued agitation then began to upset ongoing negotiations between the SSPX and its estranged Bishop, Fr. Pfeiffer was essentially cut off and sacrificed and any future assistance to him became doubtful.

    And there appears to have been interference with other priests who became affiliated with the Pfeiffer group and supported their position on some of Bishop Williamson's views and teaching. That is apparently a grave crime in the petite SSPX.  Such great outrage at criticising the Bishop's questionable exhortations and conclusions, as if there were no grounds for any just criticism or correction.  His followers will admit no fault or doubt about his utterings, and they will tolerate none. His newly minted Bishops are identical in such attitudes. That is a fair indication of the same cultism that has been part of the SSPX for decades.

    Fr. Pfeiffer should or hopefully has, found alternate sources for their sacramental necessities. Perhaps putting his anti-sedevacantism on the shelf to seek them from a valid Bishop, a sede-vacantist or an Eastern Orthodox Bishop of the old Tradition.
    Thank you for the rare post of reason and insight seen here.
    Bp. Fellay and the SSPX will drive out parishioners and withhold sacraments from those who are "with the Resistance."
    Bp. Williamson and his Three withhold sacraments from those who are "with the Pfeiffer Resistance."
    They are like two sides of the same coin: no criticism of either +Fellay or +Williamson is tolerated and is punished severely.

    Offline Clavis David

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 10:21:28 AM »
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  • Thank you for the rare post of reason and insight seen here.
    Bp. Fellay and the SSPX will drive out parishioners and withhold sacraments from those who are "with the Resistance."
    Bp. Williamson and his Three withhold sacraments from those who are "with the Pfeiffer Resistance."
    They are like two sides of the same coin: no criticism of either +Fellay or +Williamson is tolerated and is punished severely.
    If Fellay and/or Williamson really wanted to heap coals of fire on the heads of their “enemies”, they would follow the advice of Our Lord in Scripture and return any perceived affronts by so many kind deeds that it would melt any opposition. They instead withhold spiritual things (?simony) in exchange for allegiance. 
    Pretty heavy stuff.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 10:29:50 AM »
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  • Internecine squabbling is one thing, but holding innocent souls hostage to these sectarian hostilities is a grave enterprise, no matter who does it.

    In this, this new hierarchy is proving itself to be everybit a recreation of the SSPX, and speaking of cultic behavior, as has been imputed to the Pfeiffer group in other threads, it is clearly in evidence with these "resistance" clerics. It is a matter of "you have said bad things about our leader and therfore the souls under your care will be denied sacramental necessities by us, until you recant" Have we not heard this before from the Roi de Menzingen?

    Remember these people do not have the authority of the Church to use the sacramental order as a means of coersion or punishment, but in doing so regardless, they thwart the primary mission of the Catholic Church and its priesthood, which is to save souls and bring them to God.

    Conflicting over hostile statements between the sects is one order of worldly activity, but engaging the Divinely instituted Sacraments in these public squabbles is on an entirely different and higher order of scandal.

    On the Pfeiffer/Hewko side,  Fr. Pfeiffer was encouraged to rebel against Menzingen. He did so, and when his continued agitation then began to upset ongoing negotiations between the SSPX and its estranged Bishop, Fr. Pfeiffer was essentially cut off and sacrificed and any future assistance to him became doubtful.

    And there appears to have been interference with other priests who became affiliated with the Pfeiffer group and supported their position on some of Bishop Williamson's views and teaching. That is apparently a grave crime in the petite SSPX.  Such great outrage at criticising the Bishop's questionable exhortations and conclusions, as if there were no grounds for any just criticism or correction.  His followers will admit no fault or doubt about his utterings, and they will tolerate none. His newly minted Bishops are identical in such attitudes. That is a fair indication of the same cultism that has been part of the SSPX for decades.

    Fr. Pfeiffer should or hopefully has, found alternate sources for their sacramental necessities. Perhaps putting his anti-sedevacantism on the shelf to seek them from a valid Bishop, a sede-vacantist or an Eastern Orthodox Bishop of the old Tradition.

    The normal impediments to this are unimportant and should be suspended in such a time of crisis and the near complete breakdown of authority and reason in the Church today.
    He should also leave SSPX I&II behind and focus on fighting against the treason in Rome and the Chanceries. Then he can claim that they are a true resistance.

    The war between these two faction was unnecessary and did not need to happen. There is much fault which could be apportioned to all concerned. When the parties began to act in self interest, trouble entered in, it is the tool and the doorway by which demons have their powers over men.

    I will pray for them all.

    Some good food for thought in the above post.

    "Then he can claim to be part of the true Resistance."

    The above quote caught my eye, because, after all, what is the Resistance resisting really? Is it only Resisting a reconciliation with Rome and the conciliar church? That's not a bad thing, but I'm not sure that in itself should be called a Resistance.

    Praying for all in question would be a good thing to do. I'll try to offer a few prayers myself.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 10:44:12 AM »
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  • The one thing I appreciate about Fr. Pfeiffer is that he doesn't have a lot of money, unlike Bp. Williamson. If a true restoration is to be had, it should not have wealth behind it, IMO.

    I think of the great reformers in the Church such as St. Francis of Assisi, St. Dominic, St. Alphonsus, St. John Mary Vianney - none had big money behind them (hopefully I'm not wrong about that). But they were successful anyway. What they had is a great love for the Faith, the trinity and Our Lady, as well as great humility.

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 11:27:40 AM »
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  • Fr. Pfeiffer should or hopefully has, found alternate sources for their sacramental necessities. Perhaps putting his anti-sedevacantism on the shelf to seek them from a valid Bishop, a sede-vacantist or an Eastern Orthodox Bishop of the old Tradition.
     
    Yes.

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 11:29:53 AM »
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  • The only thing that could make Fr. Pfeiffer less credible than he already is would be to "be in communion with" sedevacantists.  That would truly be the bottom of the barrel, given that he's already prioritized literal fake bishops from schismatic religions over sedevacantists.
    More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com


    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 11:40:14 AM »
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  • Thank you for the rare post of reason and insight seen here.
    Bp. Fellay and the SSPX will drive out parishioners and withhold sacraments from those who are "with the Resistance."
    Bp. Williamson and his Three withhold sacraments from those who are "with the Pfeiffer Resistance."
    They are like two sides of the same coin: no criticism of either +Fellay or +Williamson is tolerated and is punished severely.
    I am sorry you find this to be true.  It does not happen in all locations.  Even though i used to be a supporter of OLMC, I received sacraments from sspx when needed, assistance from b. Williamson, and sacraments from b. Zendejas.  All knew my stance.  The only person who gave me a hard time, at the time, was fr. Pfeiffer who claimed to be the last vestige of the Catholic Church and refused to return to our mission because we cooperated with "the fake resistance and the fake sspx".  We are still a pin on his wall map, though, deceiving visitors as to the number of his missions.

    Offline Clavis David

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 11:53:20 AM »
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  • I am sorry you find this to be true.  It does not happen in all locations.  Even though i used to be a supporter of OLMC, I received sacraments from sspx when needed, assistance from b. Williamson, and sacraments from b. Zendejas.  All knew my stance.  The only person who gave me a hard time, at the time, was fr. Pfeiffer who claimed to be the last vestige of the Catholic Church and refused to return to our mission because we cooperated with "the fake resistance and the fake sspx".  We are still a pin on his wall map, though, deceiving visitors as to the number of his missions.
    I find this approach interesting. I believe Matthew and Sean Johnson hold to the same trad-ecumenical viewpoint you outline here. 
    My mother raised us that if you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything. 
    I don’t buy it. 
    Pick something and stick with it.
    :soapbox:

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 01:05:47 PM »
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  • I find this approach interesting. I believe Matthew and Sean Johnson hold to the same trad-ecumenical viewpoint you outline here.
    My mother raised us that if you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.
    I don’t buy it.
    Pick something and stick with it.
    :soapbox:
    If I understand this comment properly, you are equating the "yellow-light" position with tradcumenism?

    If so, I think you have a rather broad idea of what is meant by the term "tradcumenism."

    As I understand that term, it refers to doctrinally opposed groups setting aside their doctrinal differences for the sake of unity.

    Yet, I am not aware of any yellow-lighters who hold their position because of any desire for unity with the SSPX (a consideration which I highly doubt ever enters into any of their minds), but rather because the sophistical reasons forwarded by Jonestown to compel the "red-light" position, where they are not flatly false (e.g., communicatio in sacris to attend SSPX; AFD = official SSPX policy; etc), do not suffice to dispense from the Sunday precept.

    Until or unless the SSPX signs or promulgates some kind of official declaration or agreement which creates a moral compulsion to abstain from Mass attendance, there are no official doctrinal differences between them and the Resistance.

    Those differences would exist at the de facto level, which not being de jure/official, create no blanket moral compulsion (or justification) for abstaining from the Sunday precept.

    And that being the case, there is neither desire for unity, nor contradictory doctrines to overlook.  

    Hence, to impute tradcumenism to yellow-lighters is to mischaracterize (deliberately?) the situation.

    Contrast this with the recent Catholic identity conference (where the SSPX mingled with PCED and conciliar clergy):

    In this case, tradcumenism would most certainly apply:

    The SSPX and PCED/conciliar groups officially hold contradictory doctrines, which differences were set aside for the sake of unity.

    But as mentioned, that is not at all the case with the non-Pfeifferian Resistance attending SSPX Masses (most of whom consider themselves obliged to attend out of necessity, not for the desire of unity).




    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Where do fr. Pfeiffer and fr. Hewko get their holy oils?
    « Reply #14 on: November 15, 2017, 01:12:09 PM »
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  • I am sorry you find this to be true.  It does not happen in all locations.  Even though i used to be a supporter of OLMC, I received sacraments from sspx when needed, assistance from b. Williamson, and sacraments from b. Zendejas.  All knew my stance.  The only person who gave me a hard time, at the time, was fr. Pfeiffer who claimed to be the last vestige of the Catholic Church and refused to return to our mission because we cooperated with "the fake resistance and the fake sspx".  We are still a pin on his wall map, though, deceiving visitors as to the number of his missions.
    This actually happened to me. SSPX asked me not to go to their mass because we were going to Fr Pfeiffer masses too. And now that I have long agreed with the opening lines of this thread, the reverse is happening. I'm sick of hearing don't go here, don't go there, don't even go! As if the laity are expected to be canon lawyers and theologians figuring out all the details of orthodoxy when the bishops and priests haven't even done that. The answer isn't this Bishop's word or that priest's word, but THE Word, the Eucharist. Any priest or Bishop that tells me not to attend any true Latin Mass renders his opinion null and void. Why are they letting the devil divide us? They need to take this argument outside and come back and talk to us about unity. Tick tock, boys! My family and I are not going to wait. I'm sick of the devil,( in the name of what's supposed to be good) taking what is mine.

     

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