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Author Topic: Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....  (Read 7872 times)

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Offline CathMomof7

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Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
« on: September 10, 2012, 11:45:19 AM »
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  • I am now firmly convinced that whatever plans for a Rome-SSPX reconciliation, there has been a reversal, FOR NOW.  

    Fr. Voight has left his chapel and that chapel will now be managed by the SSPX in Syracuse.

    Fr. Hewko is, indeed, going to Chicago.

    Fr. Post, who was eerily silent from the pulpit immediately after his return from the General Chapter meeting, just yesterday was vehemently adamant that a reconciliation cannot and will not happen and that Bishop Fellay knows what is "really" happening.

    And today, I found this:Nothing New Will Happen With the SSPX Under This Pope

    My suspicion is that this is damage control.  

    In a little while, maybe a year or so, all this will settle down as if nothing has happened.  But there will remain a few who remember and will be prepared.

    Those priests who have decided to leave the Society or their affiliation with the Society, as is the case with Fr. Voight, will be shunned.  Slowly and quietly independent chapels will grow.  I know of one such chapel in our area with a priest who has chosen to remain quietly underground for years, as he was directed Fr. Malachi Martin, who warned that this would happen.  

    There will be other such places.  Many of us here may soon find these chapels to be the only safe harbor from the storm soon to come....


    Offline subpallaeMariae

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 12:19:33 PM »
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  • This may be, but I am convinced that the modernization of the SSPX will continue. Yesterday, in our chapel, following the *new* rubrics- we knelt for a very short time before Holy Communion- the rest spent standing. I began to think that even if +Fellay is not able to convince Rome to accept us! in a formal agreement now, due to this modernization in a few years time we may just be Rome! Therefore, nothing to negotiate- done deal.
    Is this +Fellay's strategy, to slowly chip away at what makes us different from the NO so that Rome will accept us?


    Offline John Grace

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 01:06:55 PM »
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  • http://www.cfnews.org/page10/page45/archbishop_dinoia_admits-convert_sspx_to_v2.html
    Quote
    Archbishop Di Noia Admits:
    The Goal is to Convert SSPX
    to Conciliar Thinking

    “This is a new concept which we know the Traditionalists will not be able to accept immediately. Convincing them will take time, and in this respect we will have to be patient.”
    – Archbishop Joseph Augustine Di Noia, newly-appointed Vice-Prefect of the Vatican’s Ecclesia Dei

    Offline Incredulous

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 02:59:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: CathMomof7
    I am now firmly convinced that whatever plans for a Rome-SSPX reconciliation, there has been a reversal, FOR NOW.  

    Fr. Voight has left his chapel and that chapel will now be managed by the SSPX in Syracuse.

    Fr. Hewko is, indeed, going to Chicago.

    Fr. Post, who was eerily silent from the pulpit immediately after his return from the General Chapter meeting, just yesterday was vehemently adamant that a reconciliation cannot and will not happen and that Bishop Fellay knows what is "really" happening.

    And today, I found this:Nothing New Will Happen With the SSPX Under This Pope

    My suspicion is that this is damage control.  

    In a little while, maybe a year or so, all this will settle down as if nothing has happened.  But there will remain a few who remember and will be prepared.

    Those priests who have decided to leave the Society or their affiliation with the Society, as is the case with Fr. Voight, will be shunned.  Slowly and quietly independent chapels will grow.  I know of one such chapel in our area with a priest who has chosen to remain quietly underground for years, as he was directed Fr. Malachi Martin, who warned that this would happen.  

    There will be other such places.  Many of us here may soon find these chapels to be the only safe harbor from the storm soon to come....




    Yes, Msgr. Fellay has known for a long time "what's really happening"
    with his secret negotiations.

    Of course, its classified information.

    Classified because in clear light, his SSPX faithful would neither understand it nor accept it.



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #4 on: September 10, 2012, 03:08:31 PM »
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  • The people who feel they are comfortable and financially secure Fellayites tend to be happy about liberalization because they're tired of being isolated and subjected to the rigors of the religion.  They get to modernize while insisting they're traditional.

    They want to have their cake and eat it too.  They want their Sunday dressup, their little social pond, and they don't want a real struggle with an anti-Christian society.

    They want the feminine fantasy of Bishop Fellay convincing the Pope to help restore Tradition, they don't want the hard reality about this world and who rules it.







    Offline Incredulous

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 06:23:22 PM »
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  • Tele:

    They want the feminine fantasy of Bishop Fellay convincing the Pope to help restore Tradition, they don't want the hard reality about this world and who rules it.
     

    Feminine is the word.  The SSPX started becoming "panty-waists" around the time Msgr. Fellay shipped Bp. Williamson out of Winona.

    You can tell the difference in the attitude and behavior between Priests of the older and newer seminary classes.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline stgobnait

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #6 on: September 10, 2012, 06:46:58 PM »
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  • its the people who are trying to hold on to tradition who are becoming tired, tired of the betrayal,

    Offline Chiara

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #7 on: September 10, 2012, 07:54:55 PM »
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  • CathMom, I thought Fr. Hewko was on a leave of absence and was not going to Chicago. Have you heard differently?  If he is being transferred to Chicago, do you know when? Thanks!


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #8 on: September 10, 2012, 08:01:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: subpallaeMariae
    This may be, but I am convinced that the modernization of the SSPX will continue. Yesterday, in our chapel, following the *new* rubrics- we knelt for a very short time before Holy Communion- the rest spent standing. I began to think that even if +Fellay is not able to convince Rome to accept us! in a formal agreement now, due to this modernization in a few years time we may just be Rome! Therefore, nothing to negotiate- done deal.
    Is this +Fellay's strategy, to slowly chip away at what makes us different from the NO so that Rome will accept us?[/quote

    I also have had this thought.

    Ps: What new rubric?  

    .ps: On Sunday sung Mass, I noticed the priest spent the whole Gloria at the altar. Also, he stayed at the altar from the epistle through the gospel.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 09:18:36 PM »
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  • The reversal is really no reversal at all.

    Resistence was foreseen by both Rome (who could forget De Noia's remark: "it will take time; we need to be patient; etc."

    And since they are coaching Menzingen, it was foreseen by them as well.

    And so it was foreseen by me that the push for a deal would cause the resistence to place their heads in the guillotine.

    Once those heads were lopped, the covert resistence would be cowed into shameful silence.

    Then the push will succeed the 2nd time.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Incredulous

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 10:49:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: CathMomof7
    I am now firmly convinced that whatever plans for a Rome-SSPX reconciliation, there has been a reversal, FOR NOW.  

    Fr. Voight has left his chapel and that chapel will now be managed by the SSPX in Syracuse.

    Fr. Hewko is, indeed, going to Chicago.

    Fr. Post, who was eerily silent from the pulpit immediately after his return from the General Chapter meeting, just yesterday was vehemently adamant that a reconciliation cannot and will not happen and that Bishop Fellay knows what is "really" happening.

    And today, I found this:Nothing New Will Happen With the SSPX Under This Pope

    My suspicion is that this is damage control.  

    In a little while, maybe a year or so, all this will settle down as if nothing has happened.  But there will remain a few who remember and will be prepared.

    Those priests who have decided to leave the Society or their affiliation with the Society, as is the case with Fr. Voight, will be shunned.  Slowly and quietly independent chapels will grow.  I know of one such chapel in our area with a priest who has chosen to remain quietly underground for years, as he was directed Fr. Malachi Martin, who warned that this would happen.  

    There will be other such places.  Many of us here may soon find these chapels to be the only safe harbor from the storm soon to come....




    The post by Father Bouchacourt and Father Couture on Rorate Coeli
    prove they are Menzingen certified "spin-miesters.

    They can put his post in their pipes and smoke it:



    Many Thanks to Faber for translation http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10791

    DECLARAÇÃO DE DOM TOMÁS DE AQUINO on spessantotomas.com.br (Portuguese)


    My translation. Please don't beat me, I learnt English at school.

    QUOTE
    In view of the Communiqué of Rev Fr Bouchacourt the Monastery of the Holy Cross declares to have called H.E. Msgr Richard Williamson to Brazil because he is considered a worthy defender of the Catholic Faith, able to confirm in the Faith not only the monks of the Holy Cross, but also the relgious communities and the faithful, who see with great apprehension the nefarious policy of practical agreements with Rome before Rome converts of its liberal and modernist errors.

    Why had the Capuchins, the Dominicans and even the Benedictines of Bellaigue their candidates excluded or threatened to be excluded from the ordinations, if not because of their opposition against an agreement? And this when Rome already didn't want the agreement anymore, at least not at this moment.

    To keep the true reasons of what we are experiencing secret, is missing the truth. Why was Msgr Williamson asked to shut down his “Eleison Comments” if not because of the doctrine therein exposed? Why did Msgr Tissier de Mallerais have to interrupt his preaching in the USA, if not because he was against the policy of agreement? Why was Fr. Koller threatened with punishment, if not because he preached against this same policy? Why were the Rev Frs Cardozo, Chazal, Pfeiffer and others either punished or expulsed, if not because of their opposition against this same policy?

    Msgr de Galarreta had called for caution some months ago: “For the good of the Society ... and of the Tradition, it's necessary to rapidly close Pandora's box, to avoid discredit and demolition of authority, to avoid contestation, discord, divisions, which may be irreversible.”

    And Msgr de Galarreta asked, which would be the required conditions for a totally acceptable proposal, that is, for a victory which only can be doctrinal, because in this whole battle all rests upon the Faith. He himself answered by quoting Msgr Lefebvre: [the Archbishop explaining how he would ask them whether they are in full communion with Quanta Cura etc., many times cited on Ignis Ardens (Fideliter, n°66, November-December 1988, pp. 12-13)]

    Conclusion. “Pandora's box” has not been properly closed, the line traced by Msgr Lefebvre has not been followed.

    But probably the Rev Fr Bouchacourt will say that, on the contrary, everything was put right at the General Chapter. All is fine in perfect order. Sadly this is not the truth. The General Chapter maintained the objective of the agreement on a different basis than that exposed by H.E. Msgr Marcel Lefebvre. Read the Eleison Comments of Msgr Williamson about the six conditions and you will see how the resolutions of the General Chapter are not sufficient and are different from those of Msgr Lefebvre.

    Others will say: what do you have to do with this? I do have, because the Faith is a common good of the Church and I belong to the Church and besides I have responsibility for the monks of Holy Cross and for the faithful who express their confidence towards us.

    But they still will say: the obedience transfers the resposibilities to the superiors, and to be obedient is never wrong. Unluckily things are not so simple. This was the way how the majority of the Bishops accepted the Second Vatican Council.

    But they still will say: You contribute to the division of Tradition. I respond that the union should be built around the truth, that is around the Catholic Faith. And the words and attitudes of Msgr Fellay sadly are not those of a disciple of Msgr Lefebvre, who defended the truth without concessions. Why silence Msgr Williamson and Msgr Tissier de Mallerais? Read the letter of the three Bishops to Msgr Fellay and his assistants and there you will find the reason of the battle of Tradition and the reason of our attitude.

    [Gustavo] Corção [a Brazilian writer, hero of Vat. II resistance] incessantly repeated that a wrong notion of charity and union caused grave damage in the Catholic resistence. When truth and charity are separated, charity ceases to be charity. Many, even of his friends, accused him of a lack of charity because of his articles. But the first charity consists in telling the truth. And Corção was right, as the facts have proved. Msgr Lefebvre was charged with the same accusation.

    Concerning union, Corção humorously said that experience had taught him against the popular saying “union makes strength” that union frequently makes weakness. And why? Because union without truth, union made with concessions, union which sacrifices the Faith, is weakness which “makes strong people weak”. And this is what happened with the Second Vatican Council, isn't it? To preserve the good of the union with Paul VI many bishops ended signing inacceptable docuмents. The union didn't make strength but the opposite.

    Now, today in Tradition they want us to join, whatever it may cost, with those who believe, that the errors of the Council are not so grave, that 95% of the Councel are acceptable, that the religious liberty of Dignitatis Humanae is very, very limited, that we should not make super-heresies of the errors of the Council. But that is not true. The Council was the biggest desaster of the history of the Church since it was founded, as Msgr Lefevbre says in his book "From Liberalism to Apostasy". If we should build on this basis or we should unite on this basis, I prefer to abstain from that, and prefer to work for the integral restauration of the Catholic Faith as Msgr Marcel Lefebvre always advised us and reprimanded us, waiting that the Society reanimates anew in the Faith, which is what I hope, because it has the means to do it, it has excellent bishops and priests.

    Concerning the accusation that I mislead the faithful, giving the false impression that I invited Msgr Williamson with all permissions of Msgr Fellay, I can say that for a long time I didn't hide our opposition against the policies of Msgr Fellay
    to anybody; and, even given that the brazilian people may be somewhat green, I don't think that they are as green as the Rev Fr Bouchacourt thinks. On the contrary. Who doesn't know that Msgr Williamson is unpopular in Menzingen? However, here he is popular, because obedience is a virtue only if it submits to higher virtues, above all faith, hope and charity. To misuse obedience as a weapon to paralyse Tradition and repeat the master-stroke of Satan, like Msgr Lefebvre said, who by obedience put the whole Church into disobedience against tradition. We won't do that.

    Let them say whatever they'll say. There is a problem, and this problem is of faith and it is grave. [cf. Arsenius, Faber]. Our position is already taken. We support who defends the faith as Msgr Lefebvre, Dom Antônio de Castro Mayer, St. Pius X and the whole Tradition of the Church did. If we have to suffer because of this, we will suffer, for Our Lord has warned us: “Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted” (2 Tim. 3, 12).

    Concerning the Society, we consider it to be a providencial work, founded by a Bishop who took the most difficult virtues to the highest heroism, which are those for which God created the gifts of wisdom, intelligence, counsel, strength, science, piety and fear of God. Msgr Lefebvre, we consider him as a light that shone in the darkness of the modern world, and the Society is his work and his heiress, but with the condition to be true to the received grace. We pray for her and if we oppose the policies of Msgr Fellay, it's not because we wish to be hostile against the Society, but for love of her and of Msgr Fellay himself, like we love the Holy Church and for love of her we fight the liberalism and modernism of her enemies, who installed themselves within her. May God bless and save the Society of St. Pius X, to whom I owe all I received of the best, as much the faith as the priesthood, which I received from the hands of H.E. Msgr Marcel Lefebvre.


    Br. Tomás de Aquino
    8th of September 2012
    Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline traddiegirl

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #11 on: September 11, 2012, 11:34:02 AM »
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  • Wow!  You sure seem to have a lot of time to play on the internet with 7 children!  You also seem to know a lot about the priests in New York.  Do you speak with them?  Or just troll around?  I am trying to discern fact from rumors, and would like to know where you receive all of your information?

    Thank you!

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #12 on: September 11, 2012, 11:36:16 AM »
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  • Quote from: traddiegirl
    Wow!  You sure seem to have a lot of time to play on the internet with 7 children!  You also seem to know a lot about the priests in New York.  Do you speak with them?  Or just troll around?  I am trying to discern fact from rumors, and would like to know where you receive all of your information?

    Thank you!


    She's been here for more than two years, and has only 578 posts, which averages to less than one post a day.

    She is familiar with the situation in New York.  

    Offline CathMomof7

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #13 on: September 11, 2012, 12:04:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: traddiegirl
    Wow!  You sure seem to have a lot of time to play on the internet with 7 children!  You also seem to know a lot about the priests in New York.  Do you speak with them?  Or just troll around?  I am trying to discern fact from rumors, and would like to know where you receive all of your information?

    Thank you!


    I wonder who is the troll?  Me or you?

    As such, I will not bother to respond to you.

     

    Offline CathMomof7

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    Whatever the plans, there has been a reversal....
    « Reply #14 on: September 11, 2012, 12:06:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Chiara
    CathMom, I thought Fr. Hewko was on a leave of absence and was not going to Chicago. Have you heard differently?  If he is being transferred to Chicago, do you know when? Thanks!


    I thought this, too, but apparently he is going to Chicago.  At least, this is what we have been officially told.

    I do not know when this will be.  I do know that Fr. H. recently offered Requiem Mass, so I don't believe he is "officially" on leave of absence.

    This is all I know.